Judas Priest Discography Discussion (part 2 starting page 20)

Filler? None. Excellent drums by Simon Phillips who was only 19 at the time of recording. Best drummer on any Priest record.

“Let Us Prey/Call for the Priest” is special because of the harmonies in the mid-part, and I think this is the first real speed/power/trash metal kind of song ever created. Its tempo is menacing. Its mid-piece is really the basis of the prime-elements in Helloween's music. And the double bass is a vital ingredient as well. The solos are certainly prime example for Slayer.

“Starbreaker” has a cool guitar riff, “Dissident Aggressor” I like because of its intense aggression, the vocals, the riffs.

Honourable mention for “Here Come The Tears”. What an emotion, what a melodies, what a build-up and what a vocals. Such deep and low vocals (check with headphones how it goes from left to right and back) and later high ones. Very impressive.

You know why I like this album so much? I really love to hear Phillips here. Every subtlety coming from his sticks and feet is a joy to the ear. Besides him, I think that Halford did a stunning job on the album. Very diverse and strong.

Priest did a lot things for the first time here. It was probably the last time that they made a collection of songs being so diverse and new and good.

Not unimportant: most songs in the Priest catalogue have not reached the level of the mighty title track.
 
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I've rarely thought Priest lyrics had anything to offer in the thoughtful sense. Raw Deal is one exception I suppose.
Where they do work is finding ways to complement the imagery the music evokes — Freewheel Burning, for example, sounds like it's title.
Dissident Aggressor's stabbing and punching, Metal Gods clanking robots — there are so many examples.
 
Simon Phillips is a great drummer, it's a shame Priest couldn't keep him, although Les Binks was also an amazing drummer (who was also mainly responsible for writing "Beyond The Realms Of Death"!). They never had another great drummer after Les, until Scott Travis joined in 1990.

About the speed/power blueprint thingy, it was a style that Priest developed and honed during the mid-70's. "Tyrant" was definitely the earliest blueprint for me, "Call For The Priest" simply refined and improved on that, though "Exciter" still remains the definitive blueprint for those styles to me. All 3 songs were an important influence I feel on those styles, "Exciter" was simply the final blueprint. :)

Agreed on everything else Foro!
 
Foro makes the right call on Let Us Prey/Call for the Priest: they took the direction of Tyrant and amped it up to 11.
The rapid fire singing and drumming, the adrenalin-soaked guitars, the duelling solos, the harmony parts — I'm not aware of an earlier example of a song — by anyone — that put all these elements together.
It's an excellent track, and it's odd that it's not more acclaimed.
 
The thing with "Tyrant", I think is the need to look past the production, and see it for how it must have appeared when it was first recorded. Also, had Simon Phillips been the drummer on Sad Wings, it may well have been more intense on that album. The version on "Unleashed In The East" is where the song shows it's full potential I think, and in that version in particular, it's much easier to see as a blueprint for power/speed metal styles. The harmony solo in particular was massively influential. That's not to downplay the significance of "Call For The Priest", I just think it's foolhardy to ignore the role "Tyrant" played in the earliest roots of power/speed metal.
 
Good point on the live version, even though it did come out after Sin After Sin. Wonder what the early live Tyrants sounded like.
I'd say Tyrant pointed the direction and Call For the Priest realized it.
Not sure which is the better song (or Exciter, Rapid Fire, Screaming, Freewheel...:p)
 
I suspect they played the song much faster once they got a more skilled drummer. I don't think they'd have played it live with Simon, cos he was a session drummer just for "Sin After Sin". But I do think had he, or Les Binks been on Sad Wings, "Tyrant" may well have been faster than the version which we now know. That's not to say even in it's actual form on Sad Wings it's not a very early power metal blueprint, because I believe it is. But I think the production and the drummer did have an effect of dampening down the song's ferocity.

Oh, all of Priest's faster songs are awesome! lol ;)
 
Exciter was more known than Call for the Priest (certainly because it landed on Unleashed in the East) and you could argue that you'd like it more, or find it better or whatever... but it came later. All the ingredients were already done on the previous album. But not on Tyrant. No double bass in Tyrant. No power or trash metal without double bass, or at least fast bass patterns. Tyrant had harmonies but I can't repeat it enough: I find it the song way too slow to associate it with this style. The uploader of the clip got it right. ;-)

Perhaps Tyrant would have sounded different if Phillips played on it, but he simply didn't. Thus it doesn't sound like it. Call for the Priest is the first song that has all ingredients thus it sounds like the first speed/power/trash metal song.
 
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Forostar said:
Exciter was more known than Call for the Priest (certainly because it landed on Unleashed in the East) and you could argue that you'd like it more, or find it better or whatever... but it came later. All the ingredients were already done on the previous album. But not on Tyrant. No double bass in Tyrant. No power or trash metal without double bass, or at least fast bass patterns. Tyrant had harmonies but I can't repeat it enough: I find it the song way too slow to associate it with this style. The uploader of the clip got it right. ;-)
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Well, I heard both "Sin After Sin" and "Stained Class" long before I heard "Unleashed In The East", so "Exicter"'s placement on the latter album has no bearing on my opinion on it as a "blueprint". You also have to remember, I never said "Tyrant" was the finished article, or was a definitive blueprint for speed metal. I merely meant that it was a very early starting place for the style, one which was refined and taken to another level by both "Call For The Priest" and "Exciter". I see "Exciter" as the final blueprint, mainly because that's where the speed and harmonies were really honed to their maximum potential, or at least maximum potential for that time. I would not deny the role that "Call For The Priest" played, as I think it's role in enhancing the style already laid out by "Tyrant" shouldn't be understated. I think one thing we both can agree on, is that "Call For The Priest" was a very important song in the early Priest canon, and is immensely underrated. But then, I think a lot of material on "Sin After Sin" is very underrated. :)
 
Sara said:
I would not deny the role that "Call For The Priest" played, as I think it's role in enhancing the style already laid out by "Tyrant" shouldn't be understated.
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The credit I am giving to Tyrant is the use of two harmonic guitars played in a fast, distorted manner, in a song that is -to a certain extent- aggressive.
Sara said:
I think one thing we both can agree on, is that "Call For The Priest" was a very important song in the early Priest canon, and is immensely underrated. But then, I think a lot of material on "Sin After Sin" is very underrated. :)
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Agreed. :--)
 
I do think the harmony solo in "Tyrant" is it's biggest influence on power metal. That kind of stuff basically became a signature for bands like Accept, Helloween, and even Maiden in their own lead guitar styles. I know Maiden aren't power metal, but still... :p I think what "Exciter" did perfectly was blend the aggressive harmonies of "Tyrant" with the more intense speed and energy of "Call For The Priest". :)
 
Don't forget that Maiden's harmonies also took from Wishbone Ash and Thin Lizzy.

Hope you don't mind me saying one more thing about the comparisons with power metal.
Still, imo the most typical harmony for power metal (and imo also the best from all three songs we're talking about) starts at 4.54 in the clip I posted.
 
Oh, I know that Priest were just one of the influences on Maiden (and more specifically, Steve Harris). :)

Well, "most typical harmony for power metal" is certainly debateable, but it absolutely is power-metallish, as is the harmony part which starts at 3:09. I can see it's also debateable whether "Exciter" actually did expand on this style, but I think something which is beyond debate, is that Priest's mid-70's material was a massive influence on all metal bands who came afterwards. A lot of the early thrash bands (as well as power metal bands) state Priest as being one of their major influences. Hearing that stuff in the 70's must have been mind bending!
 
Well, I don't think they'd have stated the influences, if the songs weren't as fast as from 1977. :p

Seriously, I really think that early trash metal bands took more from listening to 1977 and/or 1978 than from 1976. I've never heard any of these bands mention Sad Wings as an influence. I am curious to know if you have! Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Slayer did cover Dissident Aggressor, so I am sure they must have got a kick out of Call for the Priest when they modeled their style on it. Dissident was a studio track only, so they must have heard the rest of that album side. Sin After Sin was also the first Priest album promoted with a tour in America.
I am not implying that these bands did not hear Sad Wings, but I doubt that they only heard that album, before they started with their own fast music. Sin After Sin / Stained Class and/or Unleashed in the East were unavoidable in that regard.

I think Tyrant was important, but more so to Priest themselves. They took the harmonic aspect and "created" a new genre (or its prime example), one year later, in 1977.
 
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"Stained Class" is the Priest album that early thrash bands usually mention as being a major influence, although the band Overkill used to play "Tyrant" as an encore during their earliest shows.
 
mckindog said:
Sinner, great track.
But is it an all-time top 10 worthy classic?
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Without a doubt, yes. Now as much as I love Tyrant, I think Priest have 6 tracks that are head and shoulders above the rest, Sinner is one of them. The other 5 being Victim of Changes, Beyond the Realms of Death, Sentinel, Painkiller and Night Crawler (it was also the top 6 for the last Priest survivor).
 
mckindog said:
Sinner, great track.
But is it an all-time top 10 worthy classic?
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Actually something I've been thinking about this week. I feel like Sinner often gets shafted when it comes to these top ten things. When talking about top tier Priest, people seem to go to Victim of Changes, Painkiller, Beyond the Realms of Death, etc. All great songs, but I think Sinner most certainly belongs in their company. It's one of their most exciting songs with its many changes and the fact that it never really slows down.

While Sinner is the clear highlight, the rest of this album is no slouch either. I think those calling Sin After Sin underrated are correct. Maybe "overlooked" is a better word. We know what the "classic" Priest albums are and those are great too, bu this one is just as good. There's a lot of material that I don't think gets enough proper attention from the band and (maybe to a lesser extent) the fans. It's also a perfectly tracked album I think. Putting one ballad on each side was a good move, and Call For the Priest is a perfect way to start the B-side. I'm not sure why this song doesn't get more attention, it's everything that makes this band great and more.

I was thrilled to see Starbreaker live on the Epitaph tour. Priest always had a commercial edge to them; part of that could be credited to their ability to gracefully adapt to the current trends in Metal. Starbreaker has that commercial edge but it's their most well written song of that sort so far I think. There wasn't a lot of that on the previous album, but definitely a good amount on the debut, which (imo) mostly wasn't great. Starbreaker is a short, catchy song and is among my all time favorites by Judas Priest.

Last Rose of Summer is a lovely ballad. It's no Dreamer Deceiver or Beyond the Realms of Death but it's still good. I really like the outro in particular and the 70's guitar sound is very nice. Its counterpart, Here Come the Tears, is also great, but I'm afraid it hasn't stuck with me in the same way. Although I really enjoyed it on my recent listens, so maybe it'll grow more.

Dissident Aggressor is brutal. The listener leaves the album the same way they came in: with pounding aggression and excitement.

And what needs to be said about Diamonds & Rust? One of my all time favorite covers.
 
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I can't quite answer my own question on Sinner, other than to say "it's close." Love the breakdown — Phillips with such a crisp backing and KK absolutely murdering his whammy bar.
Starbreaker seems to be enjoying a bit more appreciation after the last tour and it's well-deserved — simple but with a great riff and melody, it's got power yet it's so smooth. Nice solo too.
Diamonds adds just enough power to that gorgeously wistful Baez melody. Halford sounds awesome, with some tasty Tipton fills.
I know the origins of doomy sounding metal come from Sabbath, but Here Come the Tears is one of the templates. I don't listen to it often, but when I am in the mood it has such desolate power.
The Last Rose of Summer is dusk-in-the-desert beautiful.
And at the time of its release, Dissident Aggressor may have been the most brutal song ever recorded. Groundbreaking stuff
 
Sinner does have a great middle-section. The song takes a turn and gives time for KK to do his thing slthough he might overuse the whammy every now and then.
Starbreaker is like mckindog said - simple yet smooth and has a great and memorable main riff. The solo is not their most miraculous but a very fun one to play and the harmonic touch does well.
Diamonds is a classic, no words needed. Stunning.
Dissident Aggressor has a brutal and good beat: Graaaaand canyooons. And who could forget: Stab, baaaaawl, punch, craaaawl!
 
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