ISIS Thread

Depends on how you define positive, I strongly believe negative trends will start to fall once the war is over, whoever remains in control.
Also, only a percentage of these refugees are from Syria.
 
Depends on how you define war. When Assad continues to oppress his people, the stream won't be smaller. Perhaps even bigger.
Zare said:
Depends on how you define positive, I strongly believe negative trends will start to fall once the war is over, whoever remains in control.
Also, only a percentage of these refugees are from Syria.
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Only? Only? The biggest percentage comes from Syria. It's hard to downplay that fact.
 
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The destruction of Palmyra antiquities seems worse when seen from the ground compared to observations from drones. :/

A photographer who took pictures two years ago went back and holds the old photos in his hand:

(more here)

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Forostar said:
Not just before.
Assad has been part of that war as well hasn't he?
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I assume LC means that if the war ends with Assad in control, we'll be back to something similar to before the war - no war, but an oppressive government. And that situation didn't cause as many people to leave Syria as the war has. Which is easy to understand. When you face a daily danger of death (i.e. war) you will obviously be more inclined to leave the country than if you "only" live under an oppressive government.
 
Which situation before the war. There was oppression for years, but at some point it got worse. E.g. he started to bombard civilians. That started before people spoke of a war (at least out here). We cannot expect that he won't continue to fight opposition when IS is gone. By now, people (apart from Russians and friends) have less faith in Assad than ever.
 
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No post since April in this thread but it's not for a lack of activity.

The threat of Kurdish cantons joining together has reached a new high with PYD/YPG gaining control of Manbij, which is located on the western side of Euphrates. Turkey was adamant about PYD/YPG not being allowed there and argued that they had a guarantee from the United States that it wouldn't happen. With the recent attacks on Gaziantep* by ISIS, and the possibility of the town falling to PYD/YPG control in the near future, Turkish Armed Forces decided to actively intervene within Syrian borders for the first time with an offensive on Jerabulus, repelling ISIS and giving the control to Free Syrian Army.

Gaziantep Province is right next to Jerabulus, on the Turkish side of the border

This is obviously huge, because it makes Turkey a big player in the offensives taken against ISIS. But with one difference: Turkey is also looking to shed any possibility of Kurdish cantons joining together.

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This is the region where shit is going down, Turkey does not want the Kurdish controlled areas (yellow) to join together. You can see Jerabulus being an outlier there, it's the result of the offensive that took place this week.

Russia and Syrian Government forces have recently started to bomb PYD/YPG themselves, so I think Turkey, Russia and Assad have some common ground. Obviously an intricate affair, because the U.S. still, foolishly considers PYD/YPG as a legitimate moderate opposition group, despite their ties to PKK and the fact that they're actively ethnically cleansing the area from Arabs and Turkmens. (Kurds are a small minority in a lot of the areas that are under PYD/YPG control at the moment) So Turkey can't go all out against PYD/YPG even if they want to.
 
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US government: "Thanks for your help people, you've emerged as one of the most effective American partners in the world. Now get the fuck out here, get your ass behind the Euphrates. Or else."

Turkish government: "We do not care about your sacrifice vs IS. Instead of contributing to the fight vs IS and hoping that this or anything else could bring us more together, we rather had seen that you would have been annihilated (by IS) instead. So we hoped and hoped, and did not do anything for two lousy years. But now that your battle is not lost we just have to move our sorry asses. So no thanks. Just get the fuck out of here."
 
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Forostar said:
US government: "Thanks for your help people, you've emerged as one of the most effective American partners in the world. Now get the fuck out here, get your ass behind the Euphrates. Or else."

Turkish government: "We do not care about your sacrifice vs IS. Instead of contributing to the fight vs IS and hoping that this or anything else could bring us more together, we rather had seen that you would have been annihilated (by IS) instead. So we hoped and hoped, and did not do anything for two lousy years. But now that your battle is not lost we just have to move our sorry asses. So no thanks. Just get the fuck out of here."
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I'm in line with this. I see the Kurdish forces as the only reliable partners and we let them down. Turkey has been ambivalent at least for years. Pres. Erdogan is, alongside Putin, one of the worst and most irresponsible warmongers of our times, pursuig a personal agenda.
 
Forostar said:
Turkish government: IS. Instead of contributing to the fight vs IS and hoping that this or anything else could bring us more together
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Oh yes, we want to be closer together with a group whose goal is to create a seperate Kurdish state which includes the entire southeastern region of our country. How silly of us that we didn't think of befriending a group that attacks civilians, policemen, soldiers and government buildings within our country.

Forostar said:
Turkish government: "We do not care about your sacrifice vs IS
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Yes, that "sacrifice" against ISIS that landed them the control of regions with Kurdish minority population, the "sacrifice" that led them to ethnically cleansing Arabs and Turkmens from those regions, the "sacrifice" that BY COMPLETE COINCIDENCE allows them to form Kurdish cantons and gain control of regions in Northern Syria that are in their plan of a seperate Kurdish state.


Who gives a fuck if PYD/YPG and PKK are massive dangers to Turkey and Syria's internal security? Fuck Turkey and Syria, sacrifice them to fight ISIS. Because the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mindset really got us to great places in Middle East.
 
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The Flash said:
Oh yes, we want to be closer together with a group whose goal is to create a seperate Kurdish state which includes the entire southeastern region of our country.
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Let the govermnent kick the scum out then. Deport them. Their basis for wanting to have more freedom is entirely made up. A fairytale. End of the problem. Just have them secure the borders.

Since when does the Turkish government give a rat's ass about minorities? Only when they can use it as an excuse to cleanse the world from Kurds. As long as there are Kurds, there will be terrorists among them.
 
Forostar said:
Let the govermnent kick the scum out then. Deport them. Their basis for wanting to have more freedom is entirely made up. A fairytale. End of the problem. Just have them secure the borders.

Since when does the Turkish government give a rat's ass about minorities? Only when they can use it as an excuse to cleanse the world from Kurds. As long as there are Kurds, there will be terrorists among them.
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This is the mindset that hurts Kurds more than anyone. Portraying PKK, PYD, YPG as their voice. There are millions of law abiding Kurdish citizens in our country.

Fighting to have more freedom is one thing, trying to break a country apart is another. I'm in complete support of recognition of Kurdish rights in our country and I've stressed that before multiple times. But this is not that. PKK, PYD and YPG should be made irrelevant first so that we can move on to providing freedom for Kurds in our country under legal terms.
 
I am so cynical that I don't have much faith in B (providing what you said) after A (making all these fractions irrelevant) would happen.
 
Well, a legitimate pro-Kurdish political party got into the parliament. Turkey has also had a fair share of political leaders of Kurdish origin in the past. It's not like they're not represented at all on the legal level, something could be worked out.

Also adding to it is that PKK, PYD and YPG falling from relevancy would lead to less racial hatred in the country. Most polls suggest that majority of Kurds don't even want a seperate Kurdish state, but you have groups who do want a seperate state acting as their representatives. (Which is why I said, "this is the mindset that hurts Kurds the most" in the last post)
 
At least as important would be free media to make everyone in your country aware of what goes on. To hear stories from different perspectives.
 
Free media is needed for sure, it's one of our (as the opposition) biggest issues with the current government.

The insight that pro-Kurdish HDP provides from the region is largely dismissed, because of the very reason I talked about, PKK has become synonymous with Kurdish in the eyes of many. That's a very unhealthy state to be in.
 
So I'm doing a presentation on terrorist attacks: so far I've got Oklahoma 1995 (including sections on Waco and Ruby Ridge sieges), WTC 1993, 9/11, Madrid 2004, London 2005, Moscow theater 2002 and Beslan 2004. Anyone have a suggestion for something big I forgot? (Someone else is doing more recent stuff, I mostly need older incidents.)

(Didn't know where else to ask and since ISIS are terrorists, I think this is kinda appropriate.)
 
Night Prowler said:
So I'm doing a presentation on terrorist attacks: so far I've got Oklahoma 1995 (including sections on Waco and Ruby Ridge sieges), WTC 1993, 9/11, Madrid 2004, London 2005, Moscow theater 2002 and Beslan 2004. Anyone have a suggestion for something big I forgot? (Someone else is doing more recent stuff, I mostly need older incidents.)

(Didn't know where else to ask and since ISIS are terrorists, I think this is kinda appropriate.)
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Paris, nov. 2013 is quite big ;) and Nice, july 2016 too :confused:.
And Le Bardo museum, and Sousse, also in Tunisia.

And one shouldn't be centered on the northern part of the world : Africa has paid a heavy tribute and Boko Aram are to be labelled terrorists.
 
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