Is Iron Maiden's Magic touch Bruce

M

Mysterio

Invader
When I look at the various lineups of other bands.  It seems to me that there are certain things that you can't mess with.  For Led Zeppelin its John Bonham.  Judas Priest Rob Halford. 

I am a new fan to Maiden.  It seems to me that when Bruce left Maiden.  Thier popularity went down.  I live in Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada.  The Maiden show was sold out.  If Blaze was still with them.  Would Maiden still have that midas affect of selling out on thier live shows. 

Basically what I am saying is no Bruce no successfull version of IM.  I know as a Priest fan, that Rob Halford is so intrical to the sucess of JP.  Funny when AC/DC got Brian Johnson into the band after Bon Scott died, they became more popular than ever.

Mysterio
 
Personally, I think Rob Halford is overrated and he still has his status just because of his history.  I saw Priest live this summer (so quite recent observations) and in my opinion Halford wasn't a very good frontman and neither was he a very good singer (anymore).  He can't reach the high notes, which is understandable since he is old, but unlike Bruce (who has frontmaship and voice left in him - a lot!), he's only got his fame to carry him on.

But yes, I agree, Maiden wouldn't sell out stadiums with Blaze.  Maiden are selling out at least ten times bigger shows, literally, than ten years ago (at least in most parts of the world).  Granted, that's partly due to the nature of the current (okay, it's past now) tour, being nostalgic and all that, but they couldn't have done it with Blaze, no way.
 
Halford doesn't only have a name, he also happens to be a good songwriter and a good singer. Live it goes worse indeed, but in the studio he's very good. When I saw Priest he was pretty good as well. It's not always that bad. We'll see how Bruce will do on Halford's age (that's in 2015). Perhaps solo, but I am not sure if Maiden would still exist then.
 
I agree certain line-ups tend to push a band to a creative peak, but at the same time I don't think Bruce is the make or break member of IM. It has been stated before, but Harris is the one that writes the big bulk of the songs. Even so, unlike other "band leaders," he has allowed other's to put in their two cents and more so recently than int the 80's.

As for AC/DC... I disagree that they became "more popular than ever" with Johnson. What happened to Scott is unfortunate and it happened to coincide with AC/DC's rise that was sealed with Back in Black. However AC/DC hasn't exactly put out mind blowing material that often with either singer. For a casual fan AC/DC can be summed up in Highway to Hell, Back in Black and The Razor's Edge.
 
Personally i think that Maiden will do another album tour in 2010 and one more history/best of tour in 2012. Everything points to that direction - Bruce said that they'll do another album in 2009, so the tour will be 2009/2010. Looking at 21st century, it was always album tour - various tour - album tour - various tour. They still got '90s to cover, and looking at SBIT tour which had 9 songs from '84 to '88, it would be easy to pick 9 songs from '90s albums...Bring Your Daughter To The Slaughter, No Prayer For The Dying, Afraid To Shoot Strangers, Fear Of The Dark, Wasting Love, Man On The Edge, Sign Of The Cross, Futureal and The Clansman. Those could be nine songs which are generaly known to non die-hard Maiden fans.

After 2012, i don't think they'll quit. They just won't do anything, retaining the possibility of a future record or tour or something. It would be easier that way.

And to reply to Mysterio, no, Maiden weren't big-game Maiden when Blaze was around...i like him, i like his singing and i don't hate or despite the albums he done with Maiden (like some idiots do). However, what defined Maiden is both Bruce Dickinson and Adrian Smith. Bruce was technically far better than Di'Anno, and his type of singing suits their music better. Adrian was technically far better than Stratton and his type of playing helped define those trademark leads of the '80s they are famous for. So it was a hell of an improvement to get those two in, both in terms of technicality and regarding what kind of musician Maiden needed. Maiden in '90s were still Maiden, but Blaze isn't Bruce and Janick isn't Adrian. Granted, there's a shift in general music opinion, metal became unpopular, and Maiden steered into another music direction after Seventh Son, so you need to count all the factors in. Nevertheless, most of the Maiden fans will agree that Bruce is far better choice than Blaze, and Adrian is far better choice than Janick. Blaze didn't resign because Bruce was coming back, Bruce came back because Blaze couldn't cope with the tours.  
 
Invader said:
Funny, that's exactly the AC/DC albums I do have.
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I own High Voltage, Let There Be Rock and Back in Black. Their debut album, one from after their breakthrough with Bon and their biggest success. The reason why I think AC/DC still achieved success despite Bon's tragic death, is that the identity of the band was never really that connected to Bon. The frontman of AC/DC was Angus Young, with his school uniform, his stage antics and his recognizable guitar style. When Brian Johnson came in, he didn't really change AC/DC that much. OK, a different voice, but the style remained the same.

As for Blaze replacing Bruce, it is no doubt Bruce is both a better singer for classic heavy metal and more of a frontman than Blaze. Blaze's singing style really only fits the songs Maiden wrote when he was in the band and maybe not even all of those. He did well on a few Bruce tracks, but these were exceptions. I think that for the majority of fans that Maiden had gained in the period from 1982 to 1988 (Beast throught Seventh Son) things were already getting worse when Adrian left. The sound of the band changed significantly. Then Bruce left. It simply became too much for many. 2/5 of the classic lineup which had produced four great albums and done the World Slavery Tour were gone. And I assume that for most fans at the time, the Harris/Dickinson/Murray/Smith/McBrain lineup was Maiden.

The thread starter asks if Bruce is Maiden's "magic touch". To a certain extent I'll say; yes, he is! That's because much of Maiden's reputation comes from their live performances. Among casual heavy metal listeners, the albums after Seventh Son aren't considered much to write home about. Being great live is what carries Maiden and makes them attract more than the hardcore fans. Bruce's stage presence is a very important part of their live performance! He is very active on stage, unlike Blaze who would often stand still and just yell "come on" to the audience.

What we should also remember, is that even though Maiden don't see it that way, many casual listeners see 1999 as a reunion of the band. The Blaze-era was a non-existent era for them. That shows that Bruce's voice was an important part of the band's musical identity. 'Arry can write as many songs as he like - he's not the man who will be talked about, because he plays the bass. And as we know, he likes it that way - let the others take the headlines, so he can focus on what he likes best. Watching football, playing bass and writing great songs.
 
Note also that Iron Maiden did not become a global supergroup until they fired Paul Di'Anno and hired Bruce Dickinson for the Number of the Beast album. 

Having said that, without Steve Harris, Iron Maiden doesn't even exist.  As Nicko McBrain put it, "It's Steve Harris's dream and we're living it." 
 
Forostar said:
Halford doesn't only have a name, he also happens to be a good songwriter and a good singer. Live it goes worse indeed, but in the studio he's very good. When I saw Priest he was pretty good as well. It's not always that bad. We'll see how Bruce will do on Halford's age (that's in 2015). Perhaps solo, but I am not sure if Maiden would still exist then.
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First off, Rob Halford is a chain smoker. When you grow older, the first range of your voice that starts to decline is the head and falsetto (feedback, SMX?). The main thing that Rob's got problem's with is his falsetto. Most certainly, it doesn't help if you smoke. I recall reading a post on a forum, I think it was the Q (Robhalford.com/quorum) where this user, who was also a singer, said that when he smoked, his high notes sounded like Rob sounds live. He lost his clarity in his vocals, along with some range. That's when he stopped smoking, and his voice returned to its former shape. That's why I say, PLEASE Rob, stop smoking.

Bruce, on the other hand, doesn't use falsetto that much. He'd rather use his head and chest voice instead, which, (the headvoice) if I remember correctly, be the second range to decline, but that's after falsetto. That's why Bruce's voice probably will last longer than Rob's, even when he reaches 57. True, he'll probably have lost some of his head voice, but we'll see...

And Invader, bear in mind that the show you saw was the opening show for the whole tour. I have listened to a lot of bootlegs from the tour, and the later into the tour, the better Rob sounds. Has anyone heard the Molson theatre bootleg? Rob sounds awesome on Devil's child. He has returned to sing it almost just like in 1982. The high notes at "I believe you're the devil, I believe your the devil's child" line sound just like 26 years ago. I say, kudos to Rob.

Anyway, you can download it at http://judas-priest.com/nostradamus/Liv ... 81308.html
It's the best bootleg yet, soundwise, and among the best performancewise. The only song that doesn't sound that good is Painkiller. I really think they should drop it.

Musicians, singers and so on: Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about anything.

Edit: Check this too. AWESOME singing by Rob. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uGxwOKrH08 The best yet on this song so far.
 
I am a Maiden Vet. I saw them 11 times on tour since 1983. I think Adrian Smith is pretty important to the chemistry of the band too. Bruce is probably the best frontman in all the metal world. His voice live is awesome, his energy is extremely high in every live performance I ever saw and his interaction with the crowd is unparalleled in the Metal World. He really knows how to pump the crowd up. I don't know if it is just coincidence but when Adrian left it left a huge whole in the creative structure of the band. Bruce also appeared to be tired  when Fear of the Dark came out. He was still good live but maybe because Adrian was'nt there either it was a little different. Since they both returned together at the same time it makes telling if the Iron Maiden of the 1980's or the early 1990's returned. What would No Prayer or Fear of the Dark sound like with the current line up?
 
I don't know if it is just coincidence but when Adrian left it left a huge whole in the creative structure of the band
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It's not a coincidence.

What would No Prayer or Fear of the Dark sound like with the current line up?
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That's a tough one. Adrian left because of creative differences. However, he was still in the band when a lot of "guidelines" for No Prayer have been done. He was worn up by SSOASS and his ASAP album, hadn't contributed much to No Prayer, didn't want to go that way musically, and asked more time to work on the album. That's his version of the story. Even if he agreed to musical differences, i don't think he would contribute much. No Prayer would be slightly to moderately different. About Fear Of The Dark, i think it would be totally different.

Anyways, who knows? Bruce had issues with songwriting process since Somewhere In Time. Adrian was always looking for more progression and more diversity. Steve was determined to go back to old roots in 1990, and we know he's the captain of the ship. With that kind of differences, they couldn't hold a stable lineup for 25 years in a row. It was bound to break.

Bruce's exploration of different musical territories lead him back to metal, and his work with different people increased his team skills. Adrian was working different music with different players, becoming a better player. All was solved when they returned, they will be no line-up changes. I think if someone tries to quit, they'll all quit. We had four good albums in the '90s, and we now have three fantastic albums with this lineup. If the classic five remained until 1995-6, and then the strings began to break, i'm not sure if Maiden would have strength to continue. And Bruce and Adrian would probably never return.

All in all, what happened was the best scenario.
 
I advice everyone to read the non-biased official biography with statements from different bandmembers.

Non-biased towards one certain bandmember. *cough, cough*

It's all there, 100%.
 
I live in Canada.  One of the national tv stations has a show called The Hour.  In an interview with IM about thier new material. The Interviewer George Strombo asked about the future fate of the band.  Bruce said that IM can go on forever but not with him, if there is no new material. 

That means that if IM don't put out new music.  Bruce is gone.  Kiss although in a different music genre, does not want to put out new music and wants to rest on what they have put out.  They say that because of the lost revenues due to fans downloading,  Kiss is waiting for the record companies to start to fix that problem before they put out new material.

I personally think that Bruce helped make IM the band that it is to day.  Even if Steve Harris is the Captain so to speak.  I love Priest and think that Rob is in the same boat at Bruce.  The lead singers of Priest and Maiden are crucial to the success of the band.  Its not like when Brian Johnson replaced Bon Scott that AC/DC  fell off the rock and roll map.  Like Maiden and Preist did in the 90's from a global success standpont.  My buddy Mark went to the last IM show in Winnipeg where we come from back in 91.  He said that there were only about 2000 people at the show.

I also speculate that Maidens popularity is nostagic to some degree.  There is an affectionate soft spot to 80's metal now.  Most band are enjoying that resurgence, now that Grunge is dead.  Grunge may have that as well.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Soundgarden get back together in the future.  I think that SG's lead singer Chris Cornell is a great roack singer.  Nobody wants to see him, Bruce or Rob do solo stuff.  Basically All three of them are really locked into thier bands more than other singers.

Mysterio
 
Forostar said:
Yep, and 1+1=2.

I believe we're having a second thousand_suns on this forum or something.
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Now that's a bit harsh, don't you think?



What I would've liked to see is Maiden taking an even more progressive and heavier approach after Seventh Son like H wanted.  Even if Bruce left it would've been really cool to see what a Maiden album with Blaze and H would've been like.

Probably dark and complex, and probably awesome.  Especially if Steve wasn't producing.
 
First of all, for me, the only members of Iron Maiden that can never be replaced are Steve and Dave as they have always been in the band and I can't imagine what it would sound like without Dave. (I dont even have to say why it wouldnt be Maiden without Steve).
Maiden's magic touch? I have a hard time understanding what is meant by this....I mean, there were many special songs written in the 80s and 90s are quintessential Maiden tracks and they were written without Adrian or Bruce.
Remember Tomorrow, Phantom of the Opera, Fear of the Dark, Wasting Love, Sign of the Cross, The Clansman are just some of the examples of "Maiden's magic touch" in my opinion. Classic Maiden songs.

For me at least, Blaze, Paul, Dennis, Clive and Janick are all essential parts to the sound of Maiden and have all contributed to creating the band we have today.
Basically, Iron Maiden are still Iron Maiden to me with or without Bruce and Adrian.
 
GuineaPig said:
Now that's a bit harsh, don't you think?
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Perhaps. I don't expect revolutionary opinions but this is really, well....  I have rarely seen more common and obvious stuff posted. Every sentence. Only thousand_suns topped this.
 
I advice everyone to read the non-biased official biography with statements from different bandmembers.
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My dear friend, i just set a trap for you and you have fallen for it  :D

This part :

Adrian left because of creative differences. However, he was still in the band when a lot of "guidelines" for No Prayer have been done. He was worn up by SSOASS and his ASAP album, hadn't contributed much to No Prayer, didn't want to go that way musically, and asked more time to work on the album. That's his version of the story.
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...is from the official biography. On the other hand, Steve says that Adrian wasn't giving 100% for the band. Therefore, Adrian wasn't happy because of what i wrote above, wasn't giving 100%, and Steve relieved him of duty.
 
Alright, I had the idea you left some things out.

Adrian was surprised and disappointed about the direction of Maiden but that was not the major reason for his lack of motivation. He simply hadn't contributed much at all and couldn't even decide himself if he wanted to stay in the band or not. Most of the two previous tours he looked like he didn't want to be there.

In the end, the decision about him leaving was not made by himself, but by the others.

Anyway, it's not a simple story which has only to do with musical directions.
 
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