I wonder what the boys think of their work being leaked......

LooseCannon said:
Or c) Have already bought it 3 times :D
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Indeed.  If anything, their sales have increased.  I'm buying two copies myself, unless I can convince the wife that we really do need the vinyl as well, even though we don't have a record player...because it's pretty damn it!
 
chaosapiant said:
I find that most downloaders (like me) are either

a:)  not going to buy the album anyway, in which case a sale isn't lost

or

b:)  download it out of anticipation of being able to buy it

Therefore, I don't think Maiden are going to lose sales over an album leak, I think they know that, and I don't think they care.  Can they even count their money at this point anyway?  They have a fucking plane!
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An EXTREMELY small percentage of people fit a) because why would they download it if they weren't going to buy it? I'm not going to buy an Avenged Sevenfold album because I don't like them, so I won't download it either.

And what about the huge percentage of general metal fans who aren't crazy about Maiden but want to hear the new album. They would have bought it if they couldn't download it.
 
Some treat downloading as try before you buy. That doesn't bother me because the industry is cluttered with so much bullshit nobody wants to risk taking a shot in the dark.
 
Stable bands have no reasons to care about it, it does not make much money and they don't have to prove anything to the industry(they don't need their loans), and about charting high for their ego, well, all albums leak, so the chances are the same.
 
Suicidehummer said:
An EXTREMELY small percentage of people fit a) because why would they download it if they weren't going to buy it? I'm not going to buy an Avenged Sevenfold album because I don't like them, so I won't download it either.
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I couldn't disagree more. I own every Maiden album because Maiden happens to be one of my favorite bands.

That being said, I look at my Itunes. I have 8635 songs. How many of those are from albums I own? 3457. I organized them so I know.

Now, lets get the "your a thief" out of the way first. Okay I am. I admit it. When I can afford to buy albums I do my best to buy local small bands, who could benefit from album sales, (That of course doesn't' justify me stealing bigger bands music, but that's not my point) Lets just move on.

The point is, I have over a couple hundred of listens on albums I don't own but have downloaded. 

I'm a student in school. If I wasn't able to download it, I wouldn't have bought it. For me that's financially impossible. That applies to roughly 60% of the music I have. I love it. But at this stage in my life, I'd never be able to afford it.

I don't think I'm part of an "extremely small percentage"
 
Suicidehummer said:
Sorry but that's BS. AC/DC's last album was leaked and still hit #1 in a shitload of countries. Also, almost every album leaks these days, so every other album TFF is competing with on those charts has the same setbacks.
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Thing about AC/DC is they've a HUGE fan base and hadn't released anything in years. That was always gonna be number 1. I hope you're right, I think a US Number 1 is a real possibility if you are right and that would be an amazing and deserved achievement for Maiden.
 
mozzle said:
I couldn't disagree more. I own every Maiden album because Maiden happens to be one of my favorite bands.

That being said, I look at my Itunes. I have 8635 songs. How many of those are from albums I own? 3457. I organized them so I know.

Now, lets get the "your a thief" out of the way first. Okay I am. I admit it. When I can afford to buy albums I do my best to buy local small bands, who could benefit from album sales, (That of course doesn't' justify me stealing bigger bands music, but that's not my point) Lets just move on.

The point is, I have over a couple hundred of listens on albums I don't own but have downloaded.   

I'm a student in school. If I wasn't able to download it, I wouldn't have bought it. For me that's financially impossible. That applies to roughly 60% of the music I have. I love it. But at this stage in my life, I'd never be able to afford it.

I don't think I'm part of an "extremely small percentage"
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This is exactly the kind of person I was referring to in my post above for type "A."  I am also one of these.  I don't condone downloading and pirating....but I do it anyway.  I have a lot of music I like, which I've downloaded, but haven't bought any of, because there is a huge difference in what I can afford to buy, and afford to download.  Not to mention, I have no idea where I would put all those CDs.  I have a select few favorite bands who I buy every album of.  Currently that is Iron Maiden, Moonspell, Samael, and Rammstein.  And there are a lot of things I like, but not enough to buy them.  Again, i'm taking advantage of the situation by getting free stuff that doesn't belong to me.  I'm stealing.  But I wouldn't be buying what I'm stealing most times in the first place, so no sales are actually lost, at least from me.
 
mozzle said:
I couldn't disagree more. I own every Maiden album because Maiden happens to be one of my favorite bands.

That being said, I look at my Itunes. I have 8635 songs. How many of those are from albums I own? 3457. I organized them so I know.

Now, lets get the "your a thief" out of the way first. Okay I am. I admit it. When I can afford to buy albums I do my best to buy local small bands, who could benefit from album sales, (That of course doesn't' justify me stealing bigger bands music, but that's not my point) Lets just move on.

The point is, I have over a couple hundred of listens on albums I don't own but have downloaded.   

I'm a student in school. If I wasn't able to download it, I wouldn't have bought it. For me that's financially impossible. That applies to roughly 60% of the music I have. I love it. But at this stage in my life, I'd never be able to afford it.

I don't think I'm part of an "extremely small percentage"
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Applies to me pretty much, too.  I don't buy so many new albums, though, so I almost always buy an album if it's new to support the band and the new release.  If it's a band I'm getting into, I download first and then try to buy it for bargain prices later on, with a few exceptions.  E.g. I managed to get all of my Metallica CDs except Death Magnetic for 5-10 euros each, same for most of Maiden and Megadeth.  Usually I'm on the look-out for albums that I have on MP3, and if I see one around 10 euros, I buy it.
 
LordMaiden said:
Some treat downloading as try before you buy. That doesn't bother me because the industry is cluttered with so much bullshit nobody wants to risk taking a shot in the dark.
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True, a new Maiden album isn't really a shot in the dark though.

mozzle said:
I couldn't disagree more. I own every Maiden album because Maiden happens to be one of my favorite bands.

That being said, I look at my Itunes. I have 8635 songs. How many of those are from albums I own? 3457. I organized them so I know.

Now, lets get the "your a thief" out of the way first. Okay I am. I admit it. When I can afford to buy albums I do my best to buy local small bands, who could benefit from album sales, (That of course doesn't' justify me stealing bigger bands music, but that's not my point) Lets just move on.

The point is, I have over a couple hundred of listens on albums I don't own but have downloaded. 

I'm a student in school. If I wasn't able to download it, I wouldn't have bought it. For me that's financially impossible. That applies to roughly 60% of the music I have. I love it. But at this stage in my life, I'd never be able to afford it.

I don't think I'm part of an "extremely small percentage"
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Fair enough, but I wasn't talking about you then. I'm talking about 20-40 year old metal fans who could easily buy the new album, but won't because it leaked.

DanceFunkyDisco said:
Stable bands have no reasons to care about it, it does not make much money and they don't have to prove anything to the industry(they don't need their loans), and about charting high for their ego, well, all albums leak, so the chances are the same.
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Album sales don't just support IM's ego, they support IM. It takes a lot of money to support the show they put on, as well as their crew, lodging, transportation (Ed Force One), and the band's families. That's why I think it's ridiculous when people say, "Eh, they're a big band, they don't need money."

chaosapiant said:
But I wouldn't be buying what I'm stealing most times in the first place, so no sales are actually lost, at least from me.
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Hmm, I wonder what the Ferrari salesman would say if I stole a Ferrari and as I'm driving off the lot said "Don't worry, I couldn't have bought a Ferrari anyway, so no sale is lost!"
 
Lol, there is that side of it.  I'm not saying what I do is right, or even justified.  I do it because I can, and if I couldn't, I wouldn't.  I'm still stealing.  Alls i'm saying is that whether I steal the album, or don't buy it at all, the band is still not making money off of me.  But I do still try to buy as many albums as I can from my favorite bands, Maiden being the single most important band in my existence.  Stealing albums via piracy is like cheating on your wife; you know it's wrong, but you still do it.  (note: I have never cheated on my wife or plan to.  No wives were harmed or offended in the typing of this post.)
 
On some levels there are those who now won't buy the record.  That sucks for Maiden.

On the other hand people like us listen and spread the good word...and of course we'll buy it.  And we might just entice someone else to buy it as well.  That's good for Maiden.

Either way, it's just how things are.  Things have changed and albums don't sell like they used to.  Bands just need to use this -- best they can -- as free marketing.  
 
Private Benjamin Breeg said:
On some levels there are those who now won't buy the record.  That sucks for Maiden.

On the other hand people like us listen and spread the good word...and of course we'll buy it.  And we might just entice someone else to buy it as well.  That's good for Maiden.

Either way, it's just how things are.  Things have changed and albums don't sell like they used to.  Bands just need to use this -- best they can -- as free marketing.  
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That is true, and sad.  But that's their loss.  For every jack hole not buying the album, my hope is that there is at least another person like myself, or perhaps LooseCannon who are buying multiple copies, on different formats.
 
Statistically, Iron Maiden has sold more albums since the advent of Napster than before, and they've charted higher (AMOLAD charted in the top 10, first time ever for a Maiden album). The spread of music via the internet helps Maiden. It probably hurts lesser bands. Like Metallica, apparently.
 
LooseCannon said:
Statistically, Iron Maiden has sold more albums since the advent of Napster than before, and they've charted higher (AMOLAD charted in the top 10, first time ever for a Maiden album). The spread of music via the internet helps Maiden. It probably hurts lesser bands. Like Metallica, apparently.
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Yes and no, I'm a member of a community dedicated to a musician named Devin Townsend, who's a semi-obscure artist, that I wouldn't of even really heard of it weren't for downloading his material. (I've since purchased his entire back catalogue) He used to be really upset about people downloading his material a few years back, since he puts it out mostly on his own private record label, but in the last couple of years he's stated that he doesn't care if you download his material, but that if you like it to please either by an album, a tshirt, or come to a show so he can continue to be able to perform. He's stated that he's come to realize that's how many have discovered his material through youtube and other means, and that it's a reality of the business.

As times change it almost seems cyclical to the olden days, supporting an artist you love, just because you want to. Hopefully, not too many get lost in this transition.


As far as Maiden go, I'm pretty sure I was standing in an amphitheatre with a sold-out crowd of 13,000 people. I think they're going to be okay. Just the same, I bought the mission edition :p
 
Here's another thing:

The fact that it leaked only means that we can hear it earlier than we should. Once it's out for sale, there's no way to stop people from putting it on torrent sites. Even if it didn't leak, by the end of next week it would still have been downloaded by a bunch of people. So technically the fact that it leaked has nothing to do with the loss of sales. ;)
 
Suicidehummer said:
Album sales don't just support IM's ego, they support IM. It takes a lot of money to support the show they put on, as well as their crew, lodging, transportation (Ed Force One), and the band's families. That's why I think it's ridiculous when people say, "Eh, they're a big band, they don't need money."
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I personally don't believe any of the album sales goes towards helping pay for the tour. I think that's what ticket prices and merchandise are for. Which is why a band can tour with out releasing an album.

Hmm, I wonder what the Ferrari salesman would say if I stole a Ferrari and as I'm driving off the lot said "Don't worry, I couldn't have bought a Ferrari anyway, so no sale is lost!"
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Your analogy doesn't really work. It cost a lot of money for each Ferrari Made. Each Ferrari has to go through the process of being made.

Maiden doesn't have to recored each song for each CD. They do it once. It's not like they play the complete album in the studio, and put it on a disc, then play the complete album in the studio again for the next disc.

Not to mention a download is digital. I can make a hundred copies of a song, and it won't cost anyone anything.

I'm saying all this not to present an argument for justifying illegal downloading. I'm saying this, because you don't really need an argument for why you shouldn't. The strongest, and most easiest argument to follow, is by simply stating it is illegal.

When you focus on album sales effecting tours, or trying and create an analogy using a Ferrari, it because less about whether or not it's legal, and more about ways to justify it. 
 
Well, I confess, I downloaded it. But I strongly believe that I will buy it. I take it as saying thanks to a band I like. Hell, even Satellite 15 is enough to justify the money - it is so strange, new and interesting :) Well, it is nice to support a favourite band (as I did recently with a local band by buying two CDs), but I do not think that Maiden is a band needing every penny it can get and could easily live without my money, but I have another reason to buy :) I want Maiden's new album to be number one in the Czech Republic and that is something I can help. It could even attract some new listeners if they see Maiden as no. 1 :)
 
Okay. I just got back from the show in Norway two days ago and I still can't think straight - but maybe someone can please explain - how on earth albums are leaked to the internet? Who leaks them? How do they get to the material in the first place? And what's their interest in doing that?
 
pilau said:
Who leaks them?
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Someone that has an advance copy of the CD.

How do they get to the material in the first place?
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They work at a radio station, or work somewhere within the music industry where you'd be given a promotional copy.  Perhaps to review.

And what's their interest in doing that?
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So other people can hear it.  I mean just because Iron Maiden says you won't hear the new album until 8/17, is it wrong for you to listen to it before that?  No.
 
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