I just love those racist tunes in the morning...

Well, teen-agers often rebel against their parents. There's hope that these two little bimbos will do that too! [!--emo&^_^--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'happy.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Maverick+Oct 26 2005, 12:09 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Oct 26 2005, 12:09 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Well, this is not tolerable either. The same goes for Howard university, which is for Blacks only.

If we want to make this little planet a better place, we'll have to learn to live TOGETHER, and accept our differences (mostly the really trivial ones such as skin colour!).  [!--emo&-_---][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/sleep.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'sleep.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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That's exactly what I was getting at! Nicely put, Mav.

Charlotte, don't get the wrong idea - I hate what these girls are saying. I just think it's their right to say it. If we start placing limits on free speech, where to we draw the line? The swastika and what it represents (in Western culture, after 1945) is evil, but we shouldn't ban it. We should realise it for what it is.
I don't think "eye for an eye" is what will solve the problem; notice I said "two wrongs don't make a right". We need what Mav said - understanding and acceptance.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Oct 26 2005, 11:06 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Oct 26 2005, 11:06 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]..understanding and acceptance.
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[/quote]Indeed, we shouldn't hide the truth. Knowledge brings understanding and that may bring tolerance. But should we not "protect" the mentally weaker ones from evils such as Nazi ideology? Laissez faire in culture too?
 
I believe that the biggest problem with these girls is that nowadays, when certain people hear something in music, they believe it, they think its right and they go out and do what they're told by the music. If people like that listen to them, then they will believe that white supremacy is right.

As Perun said earlier, if Bruce had screamed "Revolution" during the Rock In Rio concert, Rio would be in ruins. I just hope that such naiive people dont listen to these girls.
 
Well, they will. Remember, most people are idiots and the girls stupid enough to listen to them will not question their precious trendy pop group and do whatever they tell them to. Good ol' pusedo-rebellious crap... *coughNu-metal*coughNu-metal*. Whoops, kinda named something there... [!--emo&:unsure:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/unsure.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'unsure.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Oct 26 2005, 03:25 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Oct 26 2005, 03:25 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Ok,  promised I wouldn't post for a while, but I have to say something here.

While I don't agree with what these girls are saying, I will defend yo the death their right to say it. They are exercising their God-given right to free speech, as is protected in the Bill of Rights of the United States. In a free society you have to listen to the bad along with the good.
To my knowledge, they aren't advocating violence against anyone. They are merely stating their opinions about their own ethnicity (however wrong it may be, it's still just an opinion)

If two black girls were signing about the virtues of the Black Panthers or Louis Farrakhan, would you all be so indignent? Many rappers preach overt violence against white people, yet there is no outcry. There is a double standard when it comes to Caucasians, especially in North America.  Two wrongs definately do not make a right, but we should stop all racism, not just that which is directed against certain ethnic groups.
The NAACP helps only black people....just sayin'
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Duke, you are doing one major argumentative mistake in my opinion.

NOBODY has mentioned organizations like the Black Panthers and stuff like that before you did. We were just going on about what these two girls are preaching, NOT about what other people do.
The fact is, that "Caucasian" propaganda has proved harmful in world history, and it is still present in people's minds.
I will agree when you say that propaganda from the other "races" gets it's chance, it will be as harmful- but it hasn't yet. So stuff that argument for the time being, because it's not what we are talking about.


Edit: Sorry for the harsh tone. I still love you, Duke [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Just because whitey did it first doesn't make it better, Perun. We should all try and be above the mistakes of the past. Inciting violence in any way should be illegal, be it for any race or cause.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-IronDuke+Oct 26 2005, 10:55 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(IronDuke @ Oct 26 2005, 10:55 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]

Two wrongs definately do not make a right,
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The what do two rights make? An airplane!!!!.....sorry, had to say it.
 
Truth is, no matter how hard we try, we will never put an end to racism...its sad...
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Oct 31 2005, 12:53 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Oct 31 2005, 12:53 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Just because whitey did it first doesn't make it better, Perun.  We should all try and be above the mistakes of the past.  Inciting violence in any way should be illegal, be it for any race or cause.
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I don't think you got my point.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Perun+Oct 30 2005, 06:51 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Perun @ Oct 30 2005, 06:51 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Duke, you are doing one major argumentative mistake in my opinion.

NOBODY has mentioned organizations like the Black Panthers and stuff like that before you did. We were just going on about what these two girls are preaching, NOT about what other people do.
The fact is, that "Caucasian" propaganda has proved harmful in world history, and it is still present in people's minds.
I will agree when you say that propaganda from the other "races" gets it's chance, it will be as harmful- but it hasn't yet. So stuff that argument for the time being, because it's not what we are talking about.
Edit: Sorry for the harsh tone. I still love you, Duke [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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I love you too! *hugs Per*

That being said, sweetheart, I don't agree with your criticism of my post. I'm not trying to obfuscate the problem (that is, these girls trying to make racism cute). I brought up the other examples in order to illustrate that what they are doing is neither unprecedented nor rare, and that we're making such a big deal out of it because we do not usually associate this level of ideologically-inspired rhetoric with pubescent blond-haired girls. My point was that we shouldn't treat them any differently than any other racists. (Besides, bringing other information to the argument does not violate any argumentative mistake I know. It just shows the ability to think beyond the issue itself and see a larger picure.)

As you say, "Caucasian propoganda" has proven harmful to the world in the past. This is 100% undeniable. However, I would argue that other "races" (I don't like that word any more than you do) have harmed history too. Look at what Japanese racist views led to in the 1930's and 1940's in East Asia. Look at the Aboriginal groups in Western Canada that blame "whites" for all their problems and act accordingly. Look at Eight Mile in Detroit. The list goes on. White people do not have a monopoly on racism.

Silencing the freedom of speech of two young girls isn't going to accomplish anything; we need to try to change peaople's hearts and minds. Let them preach their gospel to the world. Anyone with half a mind will then know just how ludicrous they and others like them really are.


[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The what do two rights make? An airplane!!!!.....sorry, had to say it.[/quote]
Tehehehe.....I spit up my coffee at that one!
 
I agree Duke.

Whites arnt the only people responsible for rascism, the whole world is.
 
No, No and No!!!! Perun is right and Duke and LC are wrong!!!

By the way, when a whitey does something to anyone is mean, racist and so on. When anybody else does something to a whitey, he took justice on his own hand.

And yes, racism is not compleately a white problem, but they sure fuel it up!
What you've called racism, for example the black people who promote black pride or the native americans that blame stuff on whiteys, its not racism. It is revindication!!!

PS. Iron Duke, are you compleately sure you are Canadian??? [!--emo&:lol:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Revindication is still racism. Two wrongs don't make a right, and you don't make things right by bitching about the past - indeed, by promoting people to violence (as has been done).
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Oct 31 2005, 08:05 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Oct 31 2005, 08:05 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]...Two wrongs don't make a right...
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Perhaps not, but three rights make a left.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Killer+Oct 31 2005, 08:32 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Killer @ Oct 31 2005, 08:32 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]No, No and No!!!! Perun is right and Duke and LC are wrong!!!

By the way, when a whitey does something to anyone is mean, racist and so on. When anybody else does something to a whitey, he took justice on his own hand.

And yes, racism is not compleately a white problem, but they sure fuel it up!
What you've called racism, for example the black people who promote black pride or the native americans that blame stuff on whiteys, its not racism. It is revindication!!!

PS. Iron Duke, are you compleately sure you are Canadian???  [!--emo&:lol:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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No, I'm quite certain it's racism. Justice is not letting the formerly-oppressed have revenge. Justice is ensuring that it never happens in the future.

"Revindication" appears in neither the Oxford English Dictionary nor the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. The only remotely-related word that makes sense in this context is "revenge".

Furthermore, frankly if you think that any American/Canadian of European descent who is alive today is responsible for slavery/killing indians/whatever, you are dumb - plain and simple. I nor anyone else I know have NEVER, not even once, at all, ever, owned a slave or scalped an indian. Never. My father didn't do it, nor his father, nor his, nor his, etc. Why, then, should it be ok for some people to blame me for something that happened before I was born? Why should I pay for it?

I have no problem with "black people who promote black pride". I think it's fantastic that they are proud to be who they are. Just as long as they don't turn their pride into the hatred of non-blacks, which many rappers do. One can be proud of one's heritage without hating that of others.

I have a huge problem with "native americans that blame stuff on whiteys". That's like saying the current inhabitants of England are to blame for what happened in Scotland under Edward the Longshanks. Get over it. Move on. Stop whining about what some Spaniard did to your great-great-great-great-great-great-great Grandfather.

A few other minor notes:
Vindication is the process by which a guilty person/people clears his/their name. Ergo, it follows that "revindication" would be what happens when a man if accused, clears his name, is accused again, and clears his name once more. I haven't the foggiest what you meant by using it here.

"whitey" is a racist term, and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use it on these forums. "White People" is acceptable, but "Caucasian" or "of European Descent" are more Politically correct, in my opinion. The same holds true for the word "gringo"; should you ever feel so inclined to use it here, think twice lest you offend people again. It is the same as using the term "darkie", "Spic", or "Nip".

"Native American" is a term quickly going out of style. It refers to the descendants of the people who lived in the Americas before the first Europeans arrived (notice I did not say "the first inhabitants of the Americas"? - they most certainly were not the FIRST). The major problem with this term is that it creates second-class citizens out of people. I was born in the Americas, my father was, his father, etc, all the way back to 1605. I sure as hell am not a native Scot or Frenchman. I am native to the Americas, ergo I am a native American. There are not "native" people in the sense you use the term, unless you go to the Great Rift Valley in Africa. That's the only real "native" place to anyone, if your reasoning is to be used.

As for calling into question my nationality, I honestly don't understand you there. Canada is a pluralistic society that respects all points of view. Nobody thinks exactly the same way, and we're porud of our differences. There is no defined way a Canadian acts, just like there is no defined way a German, a Peruvian, or an Arab should act. To assume otherwise is to stereotype, and I think even you can agree that that's not a good thing to do.
 
Duke, I dont see much wrong with what the Native Americans think (I am white BTW), the Europeans came across the sea and the whole way of life was changed because of that, they were tricked into giving up their land, were pushed onto reserves, etc.


As a matter of fact, a "Canadian" is actually pretty much anyone of any descent, that lives in Canada, thats why we are so multi-cultural.
 
I'm so sick of "politicall corectness". It's bullshit. Being politically correct has started to mean not offending no minorities, even if they represent 0.000000000000000001% of the total population. And that's bullshit. I mean, if one person is offended that on Christmas there are too many carols on TV< he can complain about it, and thus, no more carols on Christams norning on TV. Just to be politically correct.


About those girls. THey don't say :kill the jews, blacks, whatever. They take pride in being whities (sorry duke, of European Descent) with German origins, and are proud of what their father-land tried to accomplish with WWII and the Holocaust. However perverted and sick that may be, it's still their god-given right to speak. However, helping only people of a certain colour is totally inhumane and should be treated as such. It's a VERY strong politicall statement, showing that people other than whities (sorry duke, of European Descent) are inferior, and thus, not worthy of aid....



Revindication is a more or less phoneticall transportation of a word present in neo-latin languages, and has the same meaning as vengeance. So, it's a mis-use of a word, nothing more
 
Well Iron Duke, It seems that it has become a tradition to misunderstad each other. And it is taking us nowhere...

Let me explain my last post:

First of all I used the word Revindication because I thought it existed (I don't usually have a dictionary with me... sorry if that bothers you...), I took it as a posible translation for the word Revindicación which in Spanish means giving someone the rightful place he has been denied. So I just wanted to point out that it is not a racist thing to claim justice for what a nation has wrongfuly endured. Now if they would go after people of european descent and beating them, then it would be wrong. see the difference?

I used the word 'whitey' simply because I saw it in another post in this same thread and thought it sounded funny, I didn't know it was such an awful thing to say. Oh and by the way, gringo is NOT a negative word, is how we call them, the same as we call french people 'franchutes' or Spaniards 'gachupines', there is no evil mented in the word (except for the one used for Spaniards...).

Now, some people have to understand that when an especific group is trying to get back on the rightful place they where historically denied, It doesn't mean they want reveange, it doesn't mean they are blaming you directly for what they suffered, they just want to be really treated as equal. Don't be so paranoid...

Now, questioning your nationality was intended to be some kind of yoke after the first time I did it in another thread. Do you understad what this mean: [!--emo&:lol:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/lol[1].gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'lol[1].gif\' /][!--endemo--] ??? Not everything is to be taken seriously Duke, people might try to be funny sometimes... and yes, I agree, stereotypes are no good.

Finaly, when you wrote "Stop whining about what some Spaniard did to your great-great-great-great-great-great-great Grandfather" I really dont get your intention. Where you trying to be rude? It just made me laugh. So if it was the case, loosen up Duke.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Killer+Nov 2 2005, 01:26 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Killer @ Nov 2 2005, 01:26 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]So if it was the case, loosen up LC.
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Maybe it's a bit harsh dragging LooseCannon into your feud with the Duke.....
 
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