I hate you, Hollywood!

[!--QuoteBegin-Maverick+Apr 14 2004, 05:04 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Apr 14 2004, 05:04 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] i do intirely agree wif u aboot the nu internet way of spelling, as if it were more dificult 2 rite on a comp than 4 a school paper. it iz so annoying 2 reed! [/quote]
Text language is more annoying. It cofusues the hell out me. I takes too much to translate it.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-SinisterMinisterX+Apr 15 2004, 06:15 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(SinisterMinisterX @ Apr 15 2004, 06:15 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]


While I also enjoy movies that make you think, I don't see anything wrong with the periodic dose of mindless entertainment. Even us smart folks need a break sometimes! I'm a pre-med student up to my ears in biology, chemistry and physics. The occasional "Dude, Where's My Car" helps keep me sane. [/quote]
Oh, I agree OCCASIONAL stupid movies are ok, but i was referring to people that want it all the time. I've been saying this since my first post on this board: EXTREMES ARE NEVER HEALTHY!
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Onhell+Apr 15 2004, 07:51 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Onhell @ Apr 15 2004, 07:51 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] EXTREMES ARE NEVER HEALTHY! [/quote]
I extremely agree with you! [!--emo&:D--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/biggrin.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'biggrin.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
You're right. Extremes are not healthy in any way. Even too much sex is bad for you. Somehow.

Onhell, I didn't mention the Alamo because all I had seen was the previews. And quite frankly, I know diddly squat about that period in American history. I would feel wrong commenting on it.

The comparison between today's mind-numbing media can be drawn between the mind numbing media of yesteryear. I am, of course, talking about the Roman gladatorial games. Everyone's seen Gladiator, and although that movie pissed on actual Roman history, a few points remain. The Roman people were happier when mobs were being butchered in front of them than they were when presented with the reality of the world.

Also, Rome went to the Coliseum for blood and guts. But the Romans were fond of "historical battles" in which the glory of Rome was "reenacted" for the people. Usually these battles were one-sided, unlike some of the true combat, and served no educational value other than to convince the people of Rome that the Empire was invincible.

Sound familiar?

Rome was in a position that no country in the world has ever truely achieved (until now). When Rome was at its height, no other nation could take on her might. It would have taken the combined might of the world to bring Rome to her knees. Indeed, when Rome did fall it was because of Picts and Saxons, Goths and Visigoths, Vandals and Berbers, Huns and Danes, Gauls and Franks, not because of one people. America is the same today. It would take every other country in the world to bring America down. And her people are being educated in almost the exact same way that Romans were educated.

That scares me.
 
Don't forget Goths and Visigoths! and Gauls! and...and...I think you got the rest, but yes it sounds very familiar indeed.
 
Master Owl, Mister LooseCannon and Mav [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

Back to the Pro-American Propaganda; its all very well saying that if its more entertaining then put it in a film, but replacing Douglas Bader (I am familiar with Bader because I have read Paul Brickhill's 'Reach For The Sky' about Bader) with an American is going to increase the historical value and at the same time not reduce the entertainment factor. This is the Battle of Britain we are talking about here.

Its not just that. There is a severe lack of education in some of these film directors. Sure if you make a fiction, do what you like. But with something based around fact, I think it would be wise to stick to the actual course of events. If you stray too far from the real events, it becomes fiction, which is what I believe these films constitute, as they do not portray a fact, but a fiction.

This isn't really American Propaganda, but a refusal to accept the true events of historical fact and to replace historical fact with non-historical fiction. I no longer see films like Pearl Harbour as being based around something real, which hurts. If you want to see the real thing, watch Tora Tora Tora.

Having said that, there is a large market for pure action movies, which is fine. I enjoy the action films with a better-than-laughable storyline. However if you are going to make an action movie purely for audience enjoyment, cut out the history; we dont want to portray a false set of facts which people will percieve as true!

Sorry if i may have repeated myself, I prefer not to proof-read - which is why i had to edit the post [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Master Dogigniter [!--emo&^_^--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/happy.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'happy.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] a refusal to accept the true events of historical fact and to replace historical fact with non-historical fiction. [/quote]

This is called demagogy... not far from propaganda, don't you think ?

I agree with LooseCanon, seen this way, it is scary.
 
Yes, it is. SMX, no offense, but there's a huge difference between the distortion of science and the distortion of history in public eyes. One might lead the common people to believe we can do things we really can't. The other lends the populace the belief that they are invincible and always right. Not a very healthy attitude for any country to have.
 
What I meant is that, do these people really know that what they're doing is propaganda. I strongly suspect that these films are created by raving patriots; do they do it knowingly or is it just intended to glorify their own nation. Again I imagine its all to do with money rather than placing a certain amount of fact in a film
 
Whether or not they do it knowingly is irrelevant, dogigniter. The fact that it occurs is the scary part.
 
Mister Cannon,

Ok, so its irrelevent.

Ignorance is a natural thing. Therefore, unfortunately you cannot expect every Hollywood 'Hero' film to contain true historical fact. I think films based around fights for countries freedom and things like that should be kept entirely to storyline, with very little deviation, if any.

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]The fact that it occurs is the scary part[/quote]

Sure. Its scary. Its probably the reason why some American presidents seem to feel that the world is their own (besides the fact that they are greedy and bloodthirsty) and that they have every authority to do things which should legally be beyond the boundries of intervention. These people were probably brought up with these sort of films. Thats the scary part.

If there was perhaps a warning at the start of the film, something like "The sequence of events and characters portrayed in this film are fictional, (and for example)in actual fact the Battle of Britain contained blah blah blah American pilots, the added kill total of these pilots amounted to NIL"... i know it's probably not a good opener to a movie, but this one sounds like its JUST an action movie as opposed to having any real storyline. Maybe the cinematic entertainment industry could introduce such a measure to prevent the mixture of reality and non-reality

...... [!--emo&:)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/smile.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'smile.gif\' /][!--endemo--] have a nice day!
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Apr 21 2004, 04:13 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Apr 21 2004, 04:13 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] SMX, no offense, but there's a huge difference between the distortion of science and the distortion of history in public eyes. [/quote]
No offense was taken, as you're completely right. Historical movies distort the past and sci-fi distorts the future. But I still say it's all about money. If/when historical movies start bombing because of historical inaccuracies, then moviemakers will start making accurate movies. But until then, distorting the facts pays rather well, so it will continue. Sure it contributes to historical ignorance, but Hollywood would say (and I would actually agree) that it's not their job to teach history. The real problem is people who can't distinguish between fantasy and reality when the two look superficially similar.
 
There is no fault anywhere, the way I see it. Hollywood's job is to entertain people by any means at their disposal. They're not responsible for educating anyone, though they might sometimes do so by coincidence. The job of a historian is to investigate and write about history with accuracy. They're not responsible for entertaining anyone, though they might sometimes do so by coincidence. Unless a person is both a filmmaker and a historian, they don't have any obligation to uphold the ethics of an entirely different professional field.

It's similar to the way Maiden handles history. While we admire Maiden for getting a lot of their history right, we also hear the occasional "In a time when dinosaurs walked the earth...". Does that one glaring mistake in Quest For Fire ruin the song? Not for me, at least. Maiden are musicians, not historians, and the music rocks.
 
That's so. Of course, I find that one line to drive me bonkers. But not as bad as Iced Earth's song Red Baron/Mad Max. The line about the death of the Red Baron claims he was killed from the ground, when most scholars believed it was Capt. Roy Brown who brought him down.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-dogigniter+Apr 22 2004, 01:15 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(dogigniter @ Apr 22 2004, 01:15 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]What I meant is that, do these people really know that what they're doing is propaganda.[/quote]

Come on Dogigniter, do you really think that many people on the world are so stupid ?

[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--] I strongly suspect that these films are created by raving patriots; do they do it knowingly or is it just intended to glorify their own nation.[/quote]

As far as I am concerned, a movie made to glorify ones nation IS propaganda.

When you are going to see a movie "based on true events" as it sometimes occurs, do you really took the pain to check which event is true and which is not ? Many people won't take that pain, and then, some details could therefore be considered as true despite the fact they belong to fiction.
 
Owl, is right. Remember propaganda is aimed at peoples subconcious. The people doing it are fully aware of what they are doing, people watching it usually have no clue they are being manipulated. Just remember all the movies Hitler made in world war II to promote his ideas.
 
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