Here we go again...Iron Maiden sued over the rights of 6 songs

Lorraine became suspicious? :lol: :lol:

That could be the only explanation. He was a customer.

But really, this statement from the Maiden camp is very strange. Dave even said that a friend of his wrote the lyrics. Why would Steve disown them, when he wrote 22AA
 
I really hope this will be the last lawsuit.
It won't be - remember Fisher told us after the last case that McKay was representing three ex-members of Maiden? We've yet to hear from the other two.
He’s also shouting out his ‘‘evidence’’ all over the place. Some lawyer he is...
He is not a lawyer, he is a publisher who is acting as agent in this case for Dennis Willcock. As such one of the things he will do on Dennis' behalf will be to engage the lawyers. And if he believes that making a noise in the press will help his client's case, then that's what he will do (although I'm starting to doubt it's the only reason).
it is pretty evident that Rod, Steve and Dave have not been as honest about songwriting credits as we thought they were.
I think it's more likely that they just didn't realise then that certain details were significant, because this is really early stuff we're talking about here. The band's membership was basically a revolving door then and it may not have occured to them it could be important that someone who was in the band for ten minutes or whatever wrote a couple of lines to a song they continued to use. They were all learning as they went along back then (even Rod).
One interesting thing he mentions is that Steve Goldby from Metal Talk worked for him doing the background research on material allegedly plagiarised by Steve.
So he is basically going out looking for trouble - these "victims of Steve" are not just coming to him? Another clue that this could be a personal vendetta he's carrying out. I'm starting to wonder if it's actually a vendetta against Rod.

I think it's also important to remember that no-one really "won" the last case - Maiden's team capitulated so the court never made a judgement. It sounded like neither side brought anything in the way of conclusive or decisive evidence (there might not have been any, after all that time) but McKay apparently found ways to drag it out so the Maiden camp eventually capitulated because it became too much trouble to keep fighting it. They were on tour at the time, and I don't think it's a coincidence that McKay waited for the next tour before unleashing the current lawsuit. (He's probably making a noise now because he felt that the tour was getting all the publicity and everyone had forgotten about him ...)
 
A few disclaimers:
  • I've never been a professional musician
  • I've never been a good musician
  • Calling myself a musician is even a stretch...
With that said, I have played in my fair share of pub bands in my college era many moons ago. The one thing I remember is that crafting original songs was always...messy. Even if someone comes in with a fully fleshed out idea with lyrics, it almost always morphs - the drummer may alter the tempo, or come up with a part that changes the pre-chorus, the guitars might add some flair (bends, quick little licks, slides etc..) to the main riff idea, the bass player might come up with a groove that changes the chord sequence during the chorus, the singer might alter the lyrics to fit the vocal line or vice versa, or the singer might change the key to fit his/her voice. Point is, it's a very fluid process. I rarely saw anyone play something exactly as the original presented idea when it finally got put to tape. I know it does happen in specific settings and bands (pop music especially), but in the organic rock-and-roll days in the pre-Pro Tools era (where you would write songs by jamming ideas in a garage and putting them on a 4 track), I don't remember this happening very much.

Now...add alcohol and the passage of decades. Now ask me who wrote what.

Spoiler alert: I couldn't tell you.
 
Ok guys i'm not a lawyer and i have no idea how it works in UK. My girlfriend and a friend of her wrote a screenpaly for the sudent's film. Two years later they were approched by the TV series producers to use their screenplay as an episode in the series. The girls honestly mentioned that there were the third girl who brought a couple of funny sentences they included in the text and asked if they should credit that girl. The production lawyers asked them 3 questions . The first one: did that girl write even a single sequence of sentences? The second one: did she write even a single dialog ? The third one: did she bring some plot idea that lately was developed and included in the screenplay. The answer for all the questions was No. The lawyers verdict was that no credit shoud be given in these circumstances because there's no need to credit someone for a single sentence or a couple of words.
 
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Now...add alcohol and the passage of decades. Now ask me who wrote what.

Spoiler alert: I couldn't tell you.

Don't forget egos as well, you get someone who might have wrote a little fill on the bass line thinking they've just singlehandedly rewrote Stairway to Heaven.
 
Lorraine became suspicious? :lol: :lol:

Speaking of Lorraine, when asked by user Dennis Wilks about Harris missing some gigs in the early days, Barry McKay posted yesterday that Steve followed Lorraine to Germany on a school trip and that meant he was unable to play at a couple of Iron Maiden gigs. I cannot find the post today though.
 
...In those days, EMI Records wanted to sign artists who wrote all of their own material. So Harris stuck his name on just about everything irrespective of who actually wrote it...

Surely ex-band members would have been permitted? I assumed that meant EMI didn't want artists who used songwriters.


I'm starting to wonder if it's actually a vendetta against Rod.

Well, McKay did say this:

...it all started when Smallwood turned up 38 years ago. I used to deal with him when he was a lowly agent at M.A.M. and I didn't like him then either.


Barry McKay posted yesterday that Steve followed Lorraine to Germany on a school trip and that meant he was unable to play at a couple of Iron Maiden gigs.

I saw that Steve had missed some shows, apparently someone filled in for him but I can't find the comment either. I just can't believe that Steve would allow someone else to take his place in Maiden.
 
McKay is making a lot of noise trying to exaggerate Willcock's creative input , but let not us forget that's all about a couple of lines if true. It's nothing to do with the phenomenal success of the band . Dennis Willcock is a piece of nothing as a musician and created absolutely nothing during 4 decades since his departure.
 
He tells an interesting version of events. I'm not convinced, but still:

I happen to believe that Iron Maiden are a great band...Harris made it his own...but it wasn't originally. Steve Harris DID NOT FORM IRON MAIDEN. That is yet another piece of false history pedalled by the Iron Maiden organisation. In fact, Steve Harris joined an existing, unknown band when that band's bass player left. Then Harris and* thought the singer was useless and so the band auditioned new singers and Harris invited Dennis to listen to them audition...none were much good so Harris asked Dennis if he would join...and that is the true history. They then got two guitarists in from a Melody Maker advert...who probably had something to do with co-writing music with Harris for the few early original songs, as before that it was a covers band. Then Dennis and the rest of the band sacked the guitarists and Dennis introduced Dave Murray to Harris and brought both Dave and Bob Sawyer into the band.


*And... who?

It's a bit ironic that McKay is belittling Paul Day in that paragraph, as Day is likely to have written the words for Strange World. Maybe Day wouldn't join the lawsuit?

Or maybe, Maiden certainly had other songs when Strange World was written, and those songs could be the ones Wilcock is claiming he wrote. And the existance of Paul Day throws a huge spanner in the works.
 
I don't believe him. He's on blabbermouth's comment section FFS
I think we may be able to deduce a fair bit from the fact of Blabbermouth and Loudwire being his instruments of choice, ie what mentality he thinks will give him the most credence/support. And he's going to them - they're not approaching him for comment.
When legal action is ongoing it feels wrong to discuss it online, or in any form of media.
McKay is a serial litagist. He's been round the block a few times. He knows how the system works. His methods may have proved to be effective (up to this point at least) but I don't think anyone has so far accused him of being professional or mature - his rantings read like those of a particularly immature twelve-year-old. I'm particularly interested in this sentence, which closes the original Ham & High article linked to at the start:

"Mr McKay called the statements “made-up” and “bitchy” and said he could not wait for the case to be heard in court."

I'd be surprised if anything in the way of conclusive proof either way even exists, so I suspect some sort of gamesmanship/playing of the system is being plotted. Remember that last time Maiden never disputed that the lines in question were nicked, but only to whom the money was owed? It's a different story this time. And I've seen nothing to make me question Steve's honesty, especially as nothing about McKay - or Dennis for that matter - makes me inclined to trust either of them.
 
It's a bit ironic that McKay is belittling Paul Day in that paragraph, as Day is likely to have written the words for Strange World. Maybe Day wouldn't join the lawsuit?

Or maybe, Maiden certainly had other songs when Strange World was written, and those songs could be the ones Wilcock is claiming he wrote. And the existance of Paul Day throws a huge spanner in the works.
I've liked Paul Day very much ever since I first read this interview:
http://www.ironmaidencommentary.com...s0_soundhouse&lang=eng&link=albums#interview3

A pity the source is "unknown" but the interview is from 2001. In it he mentions having written some of the lyrics for "Strange World", so he knows about it and is apparently unconcerned. Which may well prove inconvenient for McKay's PR "charm offensive" ...

I would be seriously impressed if Paul Day now reappears, and weighs in on Maiden's side.
 
Here's an interesting article about songwriting; touching upon the difference between lyrics & music:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2008/jun/24/calculatingthecreditsbehind

This guy is a musician & lawyer (Canadian). Again interesting stuff on co-writing agreements, legal limitations of SOCAN, copyright, etc:
http://lawyerdrummer.com/2017/03/what-constitutes-songwriting

Brief guide to UK music copyright:
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreut...ontextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true&bhcp=1
 
@Black Abyss Babe
Paul Mario Day about Strange World in February 2015:

- - - -
This is my opinion. When I sang in Iron Maiden it was a new pub band and nobody wanted to see or hear them. We were all nobody’s all trying to make the best music we could and fighting for an audience. In 1976 Photos/Recording were next to impossible to have if you were poor boys from East London so I cannot prove I wrote the words and melody for Strange World.

As for anyone who recorded with the band, why are they not on the album credits? Would that be through agreement or fact?

As for before the time of albums and recording deals I would say it was creative theft, not deliberate as probably I would have done the same thing myself to keep it clean and simple. I think however, if it made me a mega amount of money in the future I would have done the right thing and make amends. As back then we were all pulling for the same side and it still hurts to think the first ever song I ever composed was on a big selling album and nobody knows it was me. Not to mention how I scrape to earn a living while Mr. Harris is living like a god!

Yes you can quote me on the above. But please keep in mind I shan’t be doing any more interviews re. Iron Maiden as I had a musical life after Iron Maiden and it sours my day.


- - - -
source:
https://forum.maidenfans.com/threads/paul-mario-day-on-strange-world.30103/
Okay thanks, I managed to completely miss that thread. So he was less happy about it a few years later. But I'd still be interested to know if he actually got as far as bringing this oversight to the attention of Steve/Rod. It was 38 years ago after all, when they did the first album. And since the songs on it had been in their live set for however many years before that they had probably just stopped thinking about who wrote what by the time they did the album.
 
I don't know if anyone else has noticed this. It seems Wikipedia has been updated with song writing credits being added for Sawyer and Willcock on "IM" album (see below). No doubt that will be changed again by Maiden's people one they realise it has happened.

1998 Remastered release[edit]
hideTrack listing
No.
Title Writer(s) Length
1. "Prowler" 3:56
2. "Sanctuary" Bob Sawyer 3:16
3. "Remember Tomorrow" Harris, Di'Anno 5:29
4. "Running Free" Harris, Di'Anno 3:17
5. "Phantom of the Opera" 7:08
6. "Transylvania" (Instrumental) 4:19
7. "Strange World" 5:32
8. "Charlotte the Harlot" Murray, Wilcox 4:13
9. "Iron Maiden" 3:36
Total length: 40:46
 
Okay so now I have read through all McKay's comments on that Blabbermouth article (I had to use a different browser to access them) and a few things stand out:
1) He is writing off the cuff - there are so many spelling/typing, grammar and punctuation errors that he would have seen and corrected if he'd read it back it even once. And he rises to the bait surprisingly often considering he must surely have know before he started what kind of people generally comment on Blabbermouth ("Idiot. Go fuck a duck". Really?)
2) He repeats himself a lot, and makes a big deal about things that are not really important (like whether 22AA is really the sequel to CTH - surely it's obvious that regardless of the origins of both songs "Charlotte" is just a character?) And the Seymour Duncan interview with Steve which he refers to (which I think is the same one he referred to just after the last lawsuit, when he first threatened this one) is from May 2017 and it's blatantly obvious from the context that Steve is talking about how they work now - it's not an attempt at a studied explanation of all the different ways they've done things since the year dot. Even the current line-up was of 18 years standing when the interview was done, so I doubt anything from earlier, much less from the chaotic formative years with the revolving door membership, was anywhere near the front of his mind at the time. It doesn't mean he was deliberately lying!
3) Towards the bottom of the page it becomes increasingly apparent that he really hates Steve. He mentions Rod a bit but there's a real personal hatred of Steve that comes through more and more as he goes on. He seems to be trying to convince us that Steve has been acting a part that has fooled just about everyone who has ever dealt with him, that everything we think we know about him is false. And now it's sounding like he doesn't just want to defeat Steve, but to destroy him.

Well, I'm not buying it. Whatever happened during those chaotic early years, what Maiden have become is entirely down to Steve's vision, drive and hard work. Has he made a fortune? Yes, but that's from a lot of hard graft over the last 43 years, most of it more recent even that TNOTB - I think it's unlikely that the songs involved in this lawsuit are significant contributors (the band's ultimate overwhelming success is certainly not built on them). Has he made a few mistakes, miscalculations, errors of judgement over time? Of course. Who hasn't? Maybe he deserves to get his knuckles rapped from time to time. What he does not deserve is complete vilification, as though he no longer deserved any respect or credit for anything. Whatever McKay may be implying I refuse to believe Steve is actually a cruel, heartless bastard who laughs manically to himself about all the people he's cheated and trodden on whenever he's alone. There are just too many people who've met him and claim the opposite (basically, everyone except McKay and Dennis Wilcock ...)

So Steve, in case you ever read this, I love you. You will always have my support and devotion no matter how this, or (God forbid) subsequent lawsuits turn out. Thank you for all your hard work and vision that has given us Iron Maiden, and all that it means to us.
 
I'm pretty sure he mentions something about this being the biggest exposé of it's kind too. I mean a couple early songs of a band actually having lyrics written by a couple of other early members of the same band rather than who is actually stated? Hyperbole and a half.
 
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