Helloween & Gamma Ray
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
A new boxset to be released on the 15th of September (+/- €120)
https://www.pumpkins-store.com/box-set_starlight_
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
I'll give it a miss.
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
I would have been interested IF they had included a full version of Live in the U.K. I think I won't get that and save my money for the Whitesnake Unzipped boxset.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Hmm, I couldn't give two shits about this "Pumpkins United" business, and I'm worried that they're going to have Gamma Ray's new touring singer do the lead vocals on the next Gamma Ray album (assuming there is one).
Gamma Ray hasn't put out a great studio album since Majestic, which was 13 years ago. "Avalon" was great, so they can clearly pull it together when properly motivated, but they've fallen so far from where they once were. (Sad!)
Gamma Ray hasn't put out a great studio album since Majestic, which was 13 years ago. "Avalon" was great, so they can clearly pull it together when properly motivated, but they've fallen so far from where they once were. (Sad!)
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
As far as I'm concerned, GR's last gleaming is the Powerplant period (I include Blast from the Past and to a lesser extent Skeletons in the Closet). Like you, I love songs here and there ("Blood Religion", "Insurrection", "Master of Confusion" - EDIT: listening to it again, it is a bit meh after all-, "Avalon"...) but there is clearly a before and an after BFTP, which was the artistic pinnacle of their career. I'm also afraid that, though he is a good singer, Frank Beck will render GR's music a bit tame like Fabio Leone did to Angra.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Not a Halloween fan in general. The stuff up through the Keepers has a few high points (mostly the songs written or co-written by Hansen), but it's not something I get the itch to listen to very often. Don't like Deris's voice. Kiske is good, but I actually prefer Hansen's warm, Mustaine-esque rasp with Gamma Ray.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
I can see that. I definitely think No World Order was a step backward, but apparently I'm in the minority in thinking Majestic is great. "My Temple" is kind of a weak start, but "Fight", "Strange World", "Blood Religion", "How Long", and "Revelation" are all great, and the rest of the tracks are solidly good. I also like how the whole thing appears to be a metaphorical commentary on American imperialism during the George W. Bush era, though that all seems pretty quaint in a post-Trump world.
It's a complete rehash of "Send Me A Sign", which is either awful if it was unintentional, or awesome if it was intentional, since that whole track is about owing the label a song because the album was running late, so they had to whip something together quickly. If it's satire, it's great. Still not sure if it is, though.
Agreed.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Helloween that is. You will be turned into a big pumpkin!
The current tour has Hansen singing some lead vox on very old stuff. I'm glad I've seen that. Kiske is good indeed. He does a lot. Deris combines well in the old stuff. Great package. Lots of old songs you've missed the live experience of.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Grr...autocorrect.
DJ James
A coma stole my name.
Just listened to Walls of Jericho again not too long ago. Very curious as to what wouldve happened if they kept that raw early RAGE/Blind Guardian sound and just expanded upon and refined it.
I love Helloween's 80's output, but something more blue collar like RAGE's Perfect Man album blows the Keeper albums completely out of the water for me.
I love Helloween's 80's output, but something more blue collar like RAGE's Perfect Man album blows the Keeper albums completely out of the water for me.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Do you think it is a matter of taste? Or there does come a point where something is definitely over produced? I heard a lot of metalheads decry Maiden's change in sound from the first two albums to that of Number of the Beast. Or Black Sabbath's when they hired Dio and their sound became more sophisticated.
Where does the fan draw the line between a band legitimately getting better at what they do and too much studio? It's hard even for me to put a finger on it, all I can say is when an album lacks HEART.
You mentioned a more BG sound. Perfect example. Blind Guardian seemed to only keep getting better up until Nightfall. Night at the Opera was still good, but it seemed to lack something, only confirmed by A Twist in the Myth. Technically great albums, but they lacked... heart.
I've mentioned it before on this thread about Helloween. How they put out one great album, then an average one, then total shit, then an ok albume followed by something great again. It's harder to pin point a progression or "selling out" point due to the lack in consistency, specially after the 80s. I love Better Than Raw and the Keeper Legacy albums, but other that... everthything is very meh due to either lack of quality (Chameleon) or lack of heart (Rabbit don't come easy).
Then there's Apocalyptica, which seem to do no wrong, at least for me. Their progression has been a logical/natural one and I love all their albums so far.
DJ James
A coma stole my name.
I think with Helloween's changing their sounds from Walls to Keeper Pt. I and onwards, it was a matter of taste and circumstance.
I do believe the band wanted to pursue a more white collar/progressive/melodic direction. At the same time, this progression also occured naturally with Kiske taking over vocal duties. His voice isn't suited all that well for the rough n tough style of Walls.
I do believe the band wanted to pursue a more white collar/progressive/melodic direction. At the same time, this progression also occured naturally with Kiske taking over vocal duties. His voice isn't suited all that well for the rough n tough style of Walls.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
Y'know, I just listened to Majestic again for the first time in a long time, and it was actually better than I'd remembered (except for "Revelation", which I'd mixed up with "Insurrection" in my head). I stand by my earlier assertion that it was Gamma Ray's last great studio album.
On the live front, Skeletons In The Closet kicks so much ass, and a big part of that was having the set list picked by fans online after excluding all the songs they would typically play. The pre-Land Of The Free material was great to hear with Kai on vocals, and the set list was fresh by definition.
Skeletons & Majesties Live followed the same model (this time excluding everything from Skeletons In The Closet as well), and that finally got us a version of "The Spirit" with Kai on vocals.
I've often thought that if Iron Maiden did something similar, we could get some pretty amazing deep cut set lists. They could just do a limited set of shows and sell the video, so it wouldn't have to eat up a ton of their schedule.
On the live front, Skeletons In The Closet kicks so much ass, and a big part of that was having the set list picked by fans online after excluding all the songs they would typically play. The pre-Land Of The Free material was great to hear with Kai on vocals, and the set list was fresh by definition.
Skeletons & Majesties Live followed the same model (this time excluding everything from Skeletons In The Closet as well), and that finally got us a version of "The Spirit" with Kai on vocals.
I've often thought that if Iron Maiden did something similar, we could get some pretty amazing deep cut set lists. They could just do a limited set of shows and sell the video, so it wouldn't have to eat up a ton of their schedule.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
It definitely happened with Kiske joining. I read an article some years ago where he states being aware the band blamed him, and only him, for the failure of Chameleon and the more "pop" sound. He said it was bullshit, that a single person couldn't possibly convince the rest of the band to do something they didn't want to do. Like with Masterplan, a band so democratic it imploded, because they couldn't decide shit, clearly ONE person wasn't enough to convince the rest to agree on something. So Kiske became the Helloween savior and later scapegoat. Sad!
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
I think the more commercial sound was indeed brought by Kiske (who has never been really into metal anyway) but all songwriters were guilty of committing pop soup on that album (Grapow's "I Don't Wanna Cry No More" and Weikath's "Windmill", for example).