Helloween & Gamma Ray

This is much more to my liking. Apart from the cheesy (hello Queen!) chorus it's way less happy sweet metal:
And this is still some of the best old school metal I've heard:
Man, those riffs kick elephant ass. I also like the roughness in those solos and the galloping music underneath. Headbanging all the way!

Speaking of riffs:
:notworthy: :notworthy::notworthy: :notworthy::notworthy: :notworthy::notworthy: Masters of speed and melody, and aggression!
 
Well, believe it or not, but I underwent the ordeal to listen to those links. Although I already knew them, and although I made my opinion on these bands absolutely clear.

1.: The intro is nice, but Kai Hansen kills the song. When I was a kid, there was a cartoon show on TV that I watched regularly, because there was nothing else on at the time, but I really hated the show. In fact, I think it was what turned me off TV. And there was a particularly annoying character which had a voice that sounded a lot like Hansen's. He sounds like a mixture of a raped muppet and a squealing piglet, and then had his balls cut off. Not to mention that he always tries to sound mysterious and gloomy, but just ends up sounding hoarse. No appeal at all to me. Anyway, back to the song. The chorus is a standard clichéd power metal chorus. What on earth does this have to do with Queen? :huh: I suggest you listen to that band again. There couldn't be less similarity.The guitar solo is disjointed and messy. Believe it or not, but the number one thing I hate about Gamma Ray is not the singer, but that ugly, high-pitched guitar sound. It always makes me think of pink plastic. I can't really find any words to describe what I dislike about it, I just do. Not to mention that the song evidently tries to build up atmosphere, but is just played way too fast for that.

2.: Starts out great until the second guitar kicks in. Then it sounds like fairground music. Which, incidentally, anything by Helloween sounds like. It's their sort of melody. And then in comes Hansen. See above. The chorus is ridiculous. Just ridiculous. It's the sort of table-pounding "I WANT MY DESSERT!" kind of squeal that I'd feel ashamed of singing that while drunk. The guitar solo is nice. The shredding in the second part is a bit annoying, but other than that, I'd say it's a good solo. What a waste.

3. Terrible song. It's rushed and way too fast, and the singer sounds awful (I don't really understand, it's noted everywhere this is Kiske singing, but it sounds just like Hansen). At 1:29, he wants to do a powerful scream, but it sounds more like he's puking. The "fight for freedom..." part doesn't fit in at all. The solo is nice until the harmonies kick in. I don't understand why Helloween keep trying to do harmonies, they fail so bitterly at it. It sounds everything BUT harmonic. The "Judas! Judas!" part sounds so ridiculous because it's sung by such a weak voice, that I have to laugh at it every time (I would like to remind you of the fact that I know the song well).

4. The intro is a poor fairground harmony, and the song just drops from there. Seriously, do you really think the "Wanted from law but they'll never catch me" part is good? It's a fucking kindergarten melody! Yes, I sang stuff like that when I was 4! The chorus is awful. At first it just sounds like Hansen is babbling, but it gets worse when he shrieks. This has no aesthetic appeal to me, it's just ugly. The intstrumental section would be nice if it wouldn't feel so out of place because it's in the middle of such a fast song. Oh, and the whisper ruins it. Hansen can't whisper hauntingly either. The way he says "Lucifer" just sounds ridiculous. The "you will burn in hell" part is, admittedly, delivered pretty cool. The solo is good until the fucking fairground harmonies kick in again and brutally butcher what started to become a pretty good song. The shredding after the last chorus makes no sense at all and sounds stupid and aimless. The second guitar makes it absolutely cacophonic.


Helloween in a nutshell to me: Fairground atmosphere, cacophonic harmonies, messy shredding, ugly singers (you know how much I hate Kiske, and Deris is not any different to me), disjointed songwriting .
 
Per, nice that you took the time to (again) listen to these songs. I can't really comment on your dislike of his voice. That's just how it is, and it's a very personal thing I guess. I love that voice especially when he goes in rough/screaming mode. But I know other people who compared him with one of the smurfs. :)

All these songs are sung by Hansen (where do people say it's Kiske in song 3; you say you know the song well but you're not sure who it is?).

Lyrics: Helloween en Gamma Ray never were that serious (or good) when it comes to lyrics. Although Gamma Ray's 2nd album Sigh no More (which also has some different song writing), is more serious and features some social/political commentary, inspired by the 1st Gulf war. The general level never bothered me much, especially when the music and delivery rule, as in these songs.

Speaking about the music, I have an entirely different feeling with this music. Especially in Victim of Fate, there's a great build-up in tension. That speedy part with the addition of more harmonies is actually one of the coolest feats, and trademarks of Helloween. There's no cacophony. Not to my ears at least. It's fast, but structured. I can take it. I like Hansen's vocals, also the whispering; allthough it sounds ridiculous, it brings a laugh to my face, and when I have the urge to sing along (the insane laughing included!), it's good I guess. :)

I think this kind of music is way more impressive than what most metal bands have delivered. Other bands may have better singers, but they are sweet and soft compared to this energetic, rough kick ass metal.
Other more aggressive metal bands in heavy/power/trash metal genres often lack the melodies, which make them sound more dull in my ears.

The guitar playing (solos) became already better in 1987 (Keeper era). They also lost a rough edge but wrote some great tunes in that era.
 
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All these songs are sung by Hansen (where do people say it's Kiske in song 3; you say you know the song well but you're not sure who it is?).

I always thought it was Hansen on this song, but I looked it up earlier today and saw that Kiske is credited as the sole lead singer on the single and album. So I got confused.


Actually, I haven't lost a word on the lyrics.

That speedy part with the addition of more harmonies is actually one of the coolest feats, and trademarks of Helloween.

And that's something I really hate. I can't stand the way Helloween play the harmonies, I think the speed makes them sound messy, I don't like the melodies (which, as I said, sound like fairground music to me) and so on...

Well, I'm used to people being confused at my preferences, so.. whatever.
 
As much as I like these bands, I have to admit I like the highlights. They tend to have a lot of filler outside of a couple of AMAZING albums. Gamma Ray's Land of the Free is AMAZING. The opener, Rebellion in Dreamland is nothing short of spectacular. Helloween, outside of the Keeper albums, doesn't have much else except Better than Raw. I am not too familiar with the rest of Gamma Ray's discography, but a lot of the stuff I've sampled does tend to get repetitive.

As for the singing, Foro said it best, personal taste. Kai's singing is pretty bad in the Helloween EP (that's why they hired Kiske), but it gets better in Gamma Ray.

Personally I like the cheesiness, the "fairground" sound (Blind Guardian has a lot of that AND Queen influence), but I must admit I feel I have outgrown it a bit. Metal in general, I find myself either listening to bands that do fusion well (Angra's Temple of Shadows album I can listen to forever) or Pop and Jazz...
 
Well, I'm used to people being confused at my preferences, so.. whatever.
Not confused. Sharing them can be an ongoing process. I am still learning. E.g., before today I didn't know you had speed limits when it comes to harmonies (unless I've forgotten about that). ;-)
I always thought it was Hansen on this song, but I looked it up earlier today and saw that Kiske is credited as the sole lead singer on the single and album. So I got confused.
No problem, I can understand the confusion. Judas is an in between albums track. It was the final recording with Hansen on lead vocals, before Kiske joined the band and took over lead vocals on the first Keeper album. Originally released on its own (single) in 1986, and later added to the 1988 CD release of Walls of Jericho (which was originally released in December, 1985) together with the debut mini-album (originally released in March, 1985).

European 12 inch:
helloween-judas%28single%29.jpg

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Not confused. Sharing them can be an ongoing process. I am still learning. E.g., before today I didn't know you had speed limits when it comes to harmonies (unless I've forgotten about that). ;-)

I wouldn't say "speed limit", I just think that there are cases when speed is appropriate and cases in which it's not.
 
Helloween rules. They have a lot of "filler albums", like Onhell said, but their better discography is very very good. Hansen was quite bad on vocals for me too, but excellent at the guitar. Kiske's vocals were the best but Andi Deris has a very powerful and interesting timbre as well. I don't see why Perun would dislike their harmonies but it's okay.
I have little knowledge on Gamma Ray but I know they've ripped off songs on many occasions and I think I wouldn't enjoy them very much.
 
Hold on! IMO the ripping off phase started since 2005. Don't write their nineties albums off beforehand, and No World Order (2001) has decent moments at well.

I have a nice idea: everyone who reads this:

Mention your favourite 10-15 Gamma Ray songs and then we'll give Saap an "order" (or ask him politely) to listen to these songs. ;-)
 
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Here are my favourites:

Changes (Sigh No More)
Dream Healer (Sigh No More)
The Spirit (Sigh No More)
Insanity & Genius (Insanity & Genius)
Rebellion in Dreamland (Land of the Free)
Gods of Deliverance (Land of the Free)
Land of the Free (Land of the Free)
Time to Break Free (Land of the Free)
Afterlife (Land of the Free)
Men, Martians and Machines (Somewhere Out in Space)
No Stranger (Another Day in Life) (Somewhere Out in Space)
Somewhere Out in Space (Somewhere Out in Space)
Watcher in the Sky (Somewhere Out in Space)
Anywhere in the Galaxy (Powerplant)
The Heart of the Unicorn (No World Order)

And @Saapanael you've got another thing coming. If you haven't heard of them yet, later I'll introduce you to some of the finest power metal: Iron Savior. Some of these albums are with Kai Hansen!
 
Yes, the song I listed has a lot from Painkiller (but I love it a lot!), and there are more unoriginal songs on it. Still, this gets way worse on later albums.
 
Top 15 in chronological order.

Lust For Life (Heading For Tomorrow)
The Silence (Heading For Tomorrow)
Changes (Sigh No More)
Dream Healer (Sigh No More)
Tribute to the Past (Insanity and Genius)
Rebellion in Dreamland (Land of the Free)
Land of the Free (Land of the Free)
Afterlife (Land of the Free)
Beyond the Black Hole (Somewhere Out in Space)
Men Martians and Machines (Somewhere Out in Space)
Somewhere Out in Space (Somewhere Out in Space)
Strangers in the Night (Powerplant)
Dethrone Tyranny (No World Order!)
Blood Religion (Majestic)
Majesty (Majestic)

Next would be 2 Powerplant songs in Anywhere in the Galaxy and Gardens of the Sinner.
 
I'll post 2 songs per album, making a real Top 10/15/20 would be too hard:

Heading For Tomorrow: Heaven Can Wait, Heading For Tomorrow
Sigh No More: As Time Goes By, Dream Healer
Insanity & Genius: Last Before The Storm, Heal Me
Land Of The Free: Rebellion In Dreamland, Afterlife (best Gamma Ray song)
All above songs except As Time Goes By and Afterlife were re-recorded for Blast From The Past compilation and there they sound much, much better than originals.

Somewhere Out In Space: Beyond The Black Hole, Somewhere Out In Space
Power Plant: Anywhere In The Galaxy, Armageddon
No World Order!: Induction/Dethrone Tyranny, Lake Of Tears
Majestic: My Temple, Majesty
Land Of The Free II: Empress, Real World
To The Metal!: Empathy, Rise
 
I'm not putting off anything, I just know they've been involved in ripping off. Listened to Heart of the Unicorn, can't unhear the Painkiller. But yeah, keep the songs coming, I'll look into them.
 
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