Will update tomorrow. Was drinking tonight.
GREATEST METAL ALBUM CUP - Winner: Iron Maiden - Seventh Son of a Seventh Son!
- Thread starter LooseCannon
- Start date
srfc
Ancient Mariner
I was meaning it as mainly a predisposition to be favourable to stuff your more familiar with but also meaning a slight prejudice, maybe knee jerk reaction would be a better term, to things people aren't familiar with. I know I certainly have a knee jerk reaction to extreme influences appearing in non-extreme music.
I was suspsicious of that date, there's another album as well that I can't remember that has a date in the 2010s listed that is definitely not 2010s.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Mmmmm... I'm European and 44 and voted for all youngest bands. And yes.. one of them was Living Color who I'm a great fan of (by far the band I prefer from this board). So it's a bit relative you see... As for some old stuff also being generic I absolutely agree. Although it's way easy for new bands to fall under that category (for obvious reasons) since the very inception of Metal that we're bombarded with the "copycats" and "bread and butters" of this world.
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Living Colour aren't very young, just very American sounding. Europeans are more comfortable with cheese.
karljant
Ancient Mariner
Still quite younger than Manowar (5 years to be more precise). And their first album only came 6 years after Manowar's debut.
Sebastian Bach & Friends beats Lamb of God fairly easily. Don't worry, LOG fans, they'll be back with another offering in League 10.
Baroness tops Naked City in an epic trouncing. They'll face Type O Negative in the next round.
Funk rock/metal legends Living Colour defeat the purveyors of cheese Manowar. However, the battle will return - their next album in the game is also in League 10.
Finally, Isis defeats Eyehategod, who are eliminated from the Greatest Metal Album Cup. Isis will match up against Hibria in League 16.
Baroness tops Naked City in an epic trouncing. They'll face Type O Negative in the next round.
Funk rock/metal legends Living Colour defeat the purveyors of cheese Manowar. However, the battle will return - their next album in the game is also in League 10.
Finally, Isis defeats Eyehategod, who are eliminated from the Greatest Metal Album Cup. Isis will match up against Hibria in League 16.
Rage - Black in Mind (1995) How it got here List entries: Metalstorm 72 | |
| League 17 - Match 13 | vs. |
Body Count - Body Count (1992) How it got here List entries: Rolling Stone 90 |
Avantasia - Moonglow (2019) How it got here List entries: Metal Kingdom 80 | |
| League 17 - Match 14 | vs. |
Down - NOLA (1995) How it got here List entries: Metalstorm 84 |
Arya - Игра С Огнём (1989) How it got here List entries: Metalstorm 79 | |
| League 17 - Match 15 | vs. |
Virgin Steele - The House of Atreus Act I (1999) How it got here List entries: Metalstorm 94 |
Heavenly - Dust to Dust (2004) How it got here List entries: Metal Kingdom 76 | |
| League 17 - Match 16 | vs. |
Helloween - 7 Sinners (2010) How it got here List entries: Metal Kingdom 84 |
Re: bias.
I think it is silly to think factors like familiarity, culture and age don’t affect taste.
On the contrary, I’d think they play a key role. But taste isn’t the same as bias.
I think the fact I am familiar with Stevie Nicks plays a role in where my vote went on the vocalist game. The fact she is a woman or American, or was popular when I was a kid, in and of themselves are not. All those things are true of Madonna, and I wouldn’t be voting for her (unless she was up against some screaming guy pretending he‘s some demon)
The biggest factor is how much I like the sound of someone’s voice.
I think it is silly to think factors like familiarity, culture and age don’t affect taste.
On the contrary, I’d think they play a key role. But taste isn’t the same as bias.
I think the fact I am familiar with Stevie Nicks plays a role in where my vote went on the vocalist game. The fact she is a woman or American, or was popular when I was a kid, in and of themselves are not. All those things are true of Madonna, and I wouldn’t be voting for her (unless she was up against some screaming guy pretending he‘s some demon)
The biggest factor is how much I like the sound of someone’s voice.
Rage vs Body Count -- No contest. I always like me some Rage. Body Count on the other hand... 
Avantasia vs Down -- Contest of apathy. I have my doubts that the world is any richer for having Tobias Sammet as an artist in it, but Down isn't really my cup of tea either. Going for Down anyway, by merit of some nice guitar solos.
Arya vs Virgin Steele -- Actual contest. Arya is a fantastic band that deserves far more attention than they get, especially among Maiden fans, and I can only surmise that it's the language barrier that makes people not care. On the other hand, House of Atreus is a fucking masterpiece, one of my favourite albums ever. I'm really thrilled to see it in this game, and I have to give it my vote.
Heavenly vs Helloween -- Contest of suckers. Metal Kingdom probably hired some intern who had at one point gotten a bunch of albums from a bargain bin and put them in the list because they're the only metal albums he knows. At least that's the best explanation I can think of for having two dreadfully mediocre, insignificant power metal albums here. I really can't give either album a vote of good faith, so I'm flipping a coin: Tails, Heavenly.
Avantasia vs Down -- Contest of apathy. I have my doubts that the world is any richer for having Tobias Sammet as an artist in it, but Down isn't really my cup of tea either. Going for Down anyway, by merit of some nice guitar solos.
Arya vs Virgin Steele -- Actual contest. Arya is a fantastic band that deserves far more attention than they get, especially among Maiden fans, and I can only surmise that it's the language barrier that makes people not care. On the other hand, House of Atreus is a fucking masterpiece, one of my favourite albums ever. I'm really thrilled to see it in this game, and I have to give it my vote.
Heavenly vs Helloween -- Contest of suckers. Metal Kingdom probably hired some intern who had at one point gotten a bunch of albums from a bargain bin and put them in the list because they're the only metal albums he knows. At least that's the best explanation I can think of for having two dreadfully mediocre, insignificant power metal albums here. I really can't give either album a vote of good faith, so I'm flipping a coin: Tails, Heavenly.
Arya and Virgin Steele are two of the bands from this game that are making their way into my regular rotation. I'm really enjoying both of them.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
I’d heard a lot of people mention Rage before, but I’d never listened to one of their albums. My impression after doing so is that they’re like a really experienced, high-level garage band — their sound is still low rent, but they have some cool parts in every song and they play with confidence. Not a big fan of Peavy’s voice, but at least he’s singing instead of just yelling. I had heard a couple of Body Count tracks before, but had never listened to the whole album. As a metal album it’s not very good, but in listening to the whole thing I concluded that it’s actually an early ‘90s lo-fi gangsta rap album with a punk metal soundtrack, and when taken in that context it’s much more successful. The audacious humor of those early gangsta rap records is in full effect here, as is the social commentary. Songs like “KKK Bitch”, “There Goes The Neighborhood”, and “Evil Dick” really capture the essence of the album, IMO. I also had to laugh at the token ballad, “The Winner Loses”. Ice T is no singer, but I give him points for trying. This one’s tough, especially since this is specifically a metal album contest, but I’ve got to go with the album I enjoyed more. Winner: Body Count
I hadn’t listened to Avantasia before, and the album is very lush and well executed, albeit cheesy, symphonic power metal. Geoff Tate sounds really good in his guest appearances, and while I wasn’t totally sold on the cover of Michael Sembello’s “Maniac”, it was funny to see it there. “Heart” sounds like a Journey song, and was apparently dedicated to Steve Perry, so that makes sense. There are some melodic choices I don’t always agree with, and this does have the feel of a non-native English speaker writing the lyrics, but it’s still quite good. This is the kind of cheese I can appreciate. Meanwhile, Down features one of my least favorite vocalists, Phil Anselmo, but surprisingly he actually sings from time to time on this album. Some of the music is pretty strong blues-infused hard rock, but when Phil goes into barky Pantera mode my brain turns off. No real contest here. Winner: Avantasia
I’d never heard Arya before, and they’re a pretty competent Russian-language Maiden knockoff. They don’t really carve out an identity of their own here, but I enjoyed the entire album. Virgin Steele is a band that I’ve heard a lot about over the years, but never actually listened to. The House Of Atreus, Act 1 is a pompous, ambitious concept album that runs the gamut from Meatloafy ballads to riff-driven heavy metal, and from dainty singing to coarser singing with occasional yelling. Its synth orchestration also feels a bit cheap. It’s a long album that requires you to be invested to see it through, and I’d probably need to listen to it a few more times to get a full read on how I feel about it. But for now I’m going to reward ambition over homage. Winner: Virgin Steele
This last match-up is probably the most difficult. Heavenly borrows heavily and directly from Gamma Ray and Rhapsody, sometimes as inspiration and sometimes as borderline plagiarism. The music is very effective but very cheesy power metal, and the lyrics are again pretty obviously written by a non-native speaker. This record checks all the major boxes for a strong power metal album, but I just can’t shake the sense that they’re little more than a really good tribute band. Helloween is a band that I’ve never particularly liked, especially after Kai Hansen left. I’m not a fan of Deris’s voice, I don’t like the conspicuous cheese and awkward attempts at English-language lyrics, and I generally don’t find Weikath’s songwriting to be to my taste. All of that said, the fat guitars and riffage on 7 Sinners actually balance well against Deris’s voice, and the band put together a cohesive and original power metal style on this album that I could appreciate. While the album has some of the usual Helloween issues for me, it also fundamentally rocks, and I would rather come back to this album than the one from Heavenly. Winner: Helloween
I hadn’t listened to Avantasia before, and the album is very lush and well executed, albeit cheesy, symphonic power metal. Geoff Tate sounds really good in his guest appearances, and while I wasn’t totally sold on the cover of Michael Sembello’s “Maniac”, it was funny to see it there. “Heart” sounds like a Journey song, and was apparently dedicated to Steve Perry, so that makes sense. There are some melodic choices I don’t always agree with, and this does have the feel of a non-native English speaker writing the lyrics, but it’s still quite good. This is the kind of cheese I can appreciate. Meanwhile, Down features one of my least favorite vocalists, Phil Anselmo, but surprisingly he actually sings from time to time on this album. Some of the music is pretty strong blues-infused hard rock, but when Phil goes into barky Pantera mode my brain turns off. No real contest here. Winner: Avantasia
I’d never heard Arya before, and they’re a pretty competent Russian-language Maiden knockoff. They don’t really carve out an identity of their own here, but I enjoyed the entire album. Virgin Steele is a band that I’ve heard a lot about over the years, but never actually listened to. The House Of Atreus, Act 1 is a pompous, ambitious concept album that runs the gamut from Meatloafy ballads to riff-driven heavy metal, and from dainty singing to coarser singing with occasional yelling. Its synth orchestration also feels a bit cheap. It’s a long album that requires you to be invested to see it through, and I’d probably need to listen to it a few more times to get a full read on how I feel about it. But for now I’m going to reward ambition over homage. Winner: Virgin Steele
This last match-up is probably the most difficult. Heavenly borrows heavily and directly from Gamma Ray and Rhapsody, sometimes as inspiration and sometimes as borderline plagiarism. The music is very effective but very cheesy power metal, and the lyrics are again pretty obviously written by a non-native speaker. This record checks all the major boxes for a strong power metal album, but I just can’t shake the sense that they’re little more than a really good tribute band. Helloween is a band that I’ve never particularly liked, especially after Kai Hansen left. I’m not a fan of Deris’s voice, I don’t like the conspicuous cheese and awkward attempts at English-language lyrics, and I generally don’t find Weikath’s songwriting to be to my taste. All of that said, the fat guitars and riffage on 7 Sinners actually balance well against Deris’s voice, and the band put together a cohesive and original power metal style on this album that I could appreciate. While the album has some of the usual Helloween issues for me, it also fundamentally rocks, and I would rather come back to this album than the one from Heavenly. Winner: Helloween
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srfc
Ancient Mariner
Rage - not bad, I wouldn't turn it off if it was on in the background, but the vocals don't have a lot of character or charisma.
Body Count - timely appearance in this competition since we've got another rodney king situation happening now. I had this album back in the day, most of it is novelty and like I said earlier about someone else, novelty stuff doesn't have a long shelf life.
I'll give Ice muthafuckin' T bitch the win since I am much more familiar with the album.
Avantasia - this is pure shit disney music. also suspicious of an album from last year getting a ranking of as high as 80 in a top 100 all time list.
Down - I never checked these out before as Far Beyond Driven had turned me off Pantera at the time so I'd no interest in a side project, but that track is good, might give the album a listen. Guitars have a real skynyrd vibe.
Down easy winners here.
Arya - music is alright, never heard harmonies over a funky bass line before, but that accent is far too strong for me to take this seriously.
Virgin Steele - sounds like Manowar
I'll give Arya the win since they at least have their own sound and identity.
Heavenly - I can't take all these no mark bands appearing in top 100 all time metal albums lists. I bet 2004 alone has 100 better albums than this. Power Metal is a very limited genre and theres nothing original or idiosyncratic here.
Helloween - This is pure shit as well, but at least they were originators of this sort of music and have earned the right to jump the shark
Helloween with the win.
Body Count - timely appearance in this competition since we've got another rodney king situation happening now. I had this album back in the day, most of it is novelty and like I said earlier about someone else, novelty stuff doesn't have a long shelf life.
I'll give Ice muthafuckin' T bitch the win since I am much more familiar with the album.
Avantasia - this is pure shit disney music. also suspicious of an album from last year getting a ranking of as high as 80 in a top 100 all time list.
Down - I never checked these out before as Far Beyond Driven had turned me off Pantera at the time so I'd no interest in a side project, but that track is good, might give the album a listen. Guitars have a real skynyrd vibe.
Down easy winners here.
Arya - music is alright, never heard harmonies over a funky bass line before, but that accent is far too strong for me to take this seriously.
Virgin Steele - sounds like Manowar
I'll give Arya the win since they at least have their own sound and identity.
Heavenly - I can't take all these no mark bands appearing in top 100 all time metal albums lists. I bet 2004 alone has 100 better albums than this. Power Metal is a very limited genre and theres nothing original or idiosyncratic here.
Helloween - This is pure shit as well, but at least they were originators of this sort of music and have earned the right to jump the shark
Helloween with the win.
Rage wasn’t terribly original, but they were pretty cool, Kinda like Accept updated for the 90s. Fire, crunch and melody. Definitely up for another listen.
Body Count was more original (at least for the time). It had a great groove and was very catchy. I liked it despite the repetitive lyric. Another one worthy of another listen. Going to have to dive deeper before I vote in this rare match where both bands make a good first impression.
EDIT: I think I’m going with Rage. The rest didn’t wow me, but was pretty consistent. From a purely critical vantage, I think Body Count was better artistically - some of the riffs and grooves were fantastic - but the profanity and the lyrics are too far outside my personal comfort zone.
Body Count was more original (at least for the time). It had a great groove and was very catchy. I liked it despite the repetitive lyric. Another one worthy of another listen. Going to have to dive deeper before I vote in this rare match where both bands make a good first impression.
EDIT: I think I’m going with Rage. The rest didn’t wow me, but was pretty consistent. From a purely critical vantage, I think Body Count was better artistically - some of the riffs and grooves were fantastic - but the profanity and the lyrics are too far outside my personal comfort zone.
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Have some superficial familiarity with Avantasia. I get why this is in a metal game because it comes wearing some of metal’s bombastic trappings, and a real tasty (if too brief) lead guitar tone. But it is about as metal as Andrew Lloyd Webber. This is a flavour of fast-food cheeseburger I’d never binge on, but might sneak in the parking lot in an extreme moment if no one is watching.
Never heard of Down and I would call them a Pearl Jam wannabe even without ever seeing the video. But the main riff is very cool, and so is the groove. I like this song a lot and hope to give this band a second look. Easy winner here.
EDIT: no idea I was listening to Anselmo here.
Never heard of Down and I would call them a Pearl Jam wannabe even without ever seeing the video. But the main riff is very cool, and so is the groove. I like this song a lot and hope to give this band a second look. Easy winner here.
EDIT: no idea I was listening to Anselmo here.
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The Arya guy had too much reverb on his voice, not sure if I noticed it more because of the language. He‘s a little too Broadway dramatic for me. But the music very classic metal, Maidenesque (Revelations, anyone?) and I like it a lot. Even if it is derivative, it never interferes with my ability to enjoy it.
I think I’ve liked what I’ve heard from Virgin Steel In the past and this reinforced it. More classic metal and a good song. Tough matchup. Steel will get my vote because even though the Steel guy walks a line close to “shitty metal screamer (TM)* he doesn’t cross it, and I think the Arya guy might be too much over a full album.
I think I’ve liked what I’ve heard from Virgin Steel In the past and this reinforced it. More classic metal and a good song. Tough matchup. Steel will get my vote because even though the Steel guy walks a line close to “shitty metal screamer (TM)* he doesn’t cross it, and I think the Arya guy might be too much over a full album.
Power metal is something I’ve always been able to tolerate, but never fully embrace. It’s got drama and melody but lacks grit, nuance, and/or self-awareness, or really much in the way of genuine emotion. Heavenly sounds like paint-by-numbers power metal.
Halloween is usually one of the better proponents of the genre, but not here. This song is just..kinda dull.
Heavenly gets my vote because of Halloween’s terrible chorus.
Halloween is usually one of the better proponents of the genre, but not here. This song is just..kinda dull.
Heavenly gets my vote because of Halloween’s terrible chorus.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
The opening match is meaningless to me. I didn't make it through either album, Rage because of the poor production and Body Count cause it's just not for me. Going with Rage.
Tobias sure has his hands in a lot of things, but Avantasia is really hit or miss for me. This album ending with a cover makes no sense. Down's first album is really pretty good and Stone The Crow is better than most Pantera or COC songs.
Arya is fine musically, but I can't take the vocalist seriously. Virgin Steele's album is much more palatable. The singer has a lot of Di'anno's snarl but is clearly more trained as a vocalist.
I don't much care for either album in the last match either, but I'll give the edge to Helloween. I don't remember much from my listen (other than the linked song here being another lame "metal!" song), but it was certainly better than the overly frantic, ripped off power metal with poor vocals.
Tobias sure has his hands in a lot of things, but Avantasia is really hit or miss for me. This album ending with a cover makes no sense. Down's first album is really pretty good and Stone The Crow is better than most Pantera or COC songs.
Arya is fine musically, but I can't take the vocalist seriously. Virgin Steele's album is much more palatable. The singer has a lot of Di'anno's snarl but is clearly more trained as a vocalist.
I don't much care for either album in the last match either, but I'll give the edge to Helloween. I don't remember much from my listen (other than the linked song here being another lame "metal!" song), but it was certainly better than the overly frantic, ripped off power metal with poor vocals.
KidInTheDark666
What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too
7 Sinners is a great album, for sure one of their best Deris-era records. Are You Metal? certainly isn't one of its strongest moments imo.