Ghost

[Azas]

My Rating of the New Album’s Songs (Now That Some Time Has Passed)

01. Peacefield – was 5/5 now 10/10
02. Lachryma – was 4.5/5 now 9/10

03. Satanized – was 3.5/5 now 7.5/10

04. Guiding Lights – was 5/5 now 11/10
05. De Profundis Borealis – was 5/5 now 11/10
06. Cenotaph – was 5/5 now 11/10

07. Missilia Amori – was 3.5/5 now 7/10

08. Marks of the Evil One – was 4/5 now 11/10
09. Umbra – was 4.5/5 now 11/10
10. Excelsis – 3.5/5 now 9/10

Some of you have said the first three songs are the strongest. For me, the true power trio on this album is tracks 4, 5, and 6 – Guiding Lights, De Profundis Borealis, and Cenotaph – an absolutely brilliant stretch of songs, imo. At first, I didn’t quite get Marks of the Evil One and Umbra, but now those songs are also among the best for me.

 

[MindRuler]

Thank you @Cosmiceddie for the idea!

My ranking of Skeleta:

01. Marks Of The Evil One 10/10
02. Lachryma 10/10
03. Peacefield 10/10

04. Guiding Lights 9/10
05. Cenotaph 9/10

06. Satanized 8/10
07. De Profundis Borealis 8/10

08. Umbra 7/10
09. Excelsis 7/10

10. Missilia Amori 6/10

I like all 10 songs! The album grows with each listen except for the Defleppardish Missilia Amori. If that will click this album is a masterpiece! The 3 10/10 songs allready are in my Ghost Top 10!

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Some of you have said the first three songs are the strongest. For me, the true power trio on this album is tracks 4, 5, and 6 – Guiding Lights, De Profundis Borealis, and Cenotaph – an absolutely brilliant stretch of songs, imo.

Okay, I gave 5 and 6 another listen.

I don't like the Amélie intro to 5, but once the song gets going, I get a certain sense of Maiden pastiche (the chorus too), although the major Asia-cum-Coldplay pre-chorus is horrendous. I agree it's good, but definitely not 11/10 good for me.

Cenotaph... sorry, but no. This Owl City track with a droning chug underneath is indeed the stuff of nightmares, but in a completely different way than Forge intends.

In fact what it remind me the most is We Built This City

which I admittedly do like as my extreme guilty pleasure, but that one at least goes all in into the bright cheeriness, not the halfway house Ghost are attempting.

(kinda reminds me of Starostin's observation - I think it was regarding the Flaming Lips - of how certain songs sound like Lennon demos, but that's it - demos, with proper Lennon songs-ballads came out finished and as well-produced, even orchestrated songs, because he wasn't afraid of it, whereas modern bands often are afraid of sentiment and try to hide it by lo-fi, bad production or other "alienating" effects, to better fit the post-modern mood and not to be too sincere. Doesn't fit the Ghost song too much, but maybe it explains why I like the Starship abomination more)

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Sorry mate, but you see that I at least tried. And hey, I'm glad you like it.

I'm a bit baffled by the raving reviews, as if somehow this was the most brilliant record of the decade (I'm not even sure if it has such  ambitions), but it's still preferable to many a worse album.

The best Ghost song is still Cirice, btw, I don't care that it's mainstream popular with the Grammy and whatnot, but the riff, the sense of weightiness, the driving feel, now that is what I'd like to hear more from them.

 

[MindRuler]

The best Ghost song is still Cirice, .

You spelled Square Hammer wrong!

 

[JudasMyGuide]

You spelled Square Hammer wrong!

Gosh no, I hate how the main riff sounds, but I admit that it's possibly their best video.

EDIT: also, what I find bizarre regarding the chorus is that Swedish Freemasons are openly Christian and only accept Christian men. Forge is allegedly a member, but don't know whether to believe it.

However as my wife had said when we were listening to the album in the car - it would be really hilarious if Forge somehow suddenly converted. If only God was such a prankster as I am, lol...

 

[Azas]

I don’t know—this Ghost album absolutely rips, at least to me. It’s almost like Ghost’s Black Album (and for the record, Metallica’s Black Album isn’t even my favorite—I’m just using it as a reference point). It’s interwoven with references, callbacks, and pure love for the ’80s. The fifth track? That’s pure Maiden to my ears. Anyone else hear it? That Brave New World-style wailing guitar, and later—literally—the coda from Seventh Son. Come on, Cenotaph is great. It’s fun, it roams and cruises. It’s an AOR-infused, Dissident Aggressor-ish hit.

Like I said before, to my ears, the music on this album feels really uplifting (I tend to focus primarily on music and melodies, not lyrics). Honestly, I’m even starting to think this album might top Prequelle for me—and Prequelle was my favorite.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

That’s pure Maiden to my ears. Anyone else hear it?

I get a certain sense of Maiden pastiche (the chorus too)

So... yes?

the music on this album feels really uplifting (I tend to focus primarily on music and melodies, not lyrics)

Funnily enough, I find the lyrics also to be really uplifting, combined with

As my wife had said when we were listening to the album in the car - it would be really hilarious if Forge somehow suddenly converted. If only God was such a prankster as I am, lol...

You know, it's better to be careful about religion, there's this (coincidentally also Swedish) black metal band that actually started studying theology and the Bible for better blaspheming and "accidentally converted". And like the Clash say, "but I believe in this and it's been tested by research -- He who fucks nuns will later join the church"

Heh, Tobias actually kinda uplifts me.

 

[Azas]

I agree with you about their image—it’s kind of lame. But have you all noticed that on the last few tours, Tobias has been wearing a tuxedo instead of the papal robes? He’s definitely dialing it all down a notch.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

I agree with you about their image—it’s kind of lame. But have you all noticed that on the last few tours, Tobias has been wearing a tuxedo instead of the papal robes? He’s definitely dialing it all down a notch.

As Fantano mentions, TF has said in a recent interview that the theatrical shtick will probably go away "rather soon". I get it, it must be a lot of work and money for a rather dubious benefit, sure, the image makes them recognisable, but I'm not sure if the payoff is fully there.

With the last album feeling more personal, I would actually love if he - conversion aside, lol - slowly metamorphosed into this combination of King Diamond (hopefully as much sound-wise as possible) and Alice Cooper (as this horror-themed theatrical singer songwriter with strong personality, underrated lyrics and insane versatility), even without the former's talent or the latter's genius. I think that's a niche that's needed.

 

[DJMayes]

My Rating of the New Album’s Songs (Now That Some Time Has Passed)

01. Peacefield – was 5/5 now 10/10
02. Lachryma – was 4.5/5 now 9/10

03. Satanized – was 3.5/5 now 7.5/10

04. Guiding Lights – was 5/5 now 11/10
05. De Profundis Borealis – was 5/5 now 11/10
06. Cenotaph – was 5/5 now 11/10

07. Missilia Amori – was 3.5/5 now 7/10

08. Marks of the Evil One – was 4/5 now 11/10
09. Umbra – was 4.5/5 now 11/10
10. Excelsis – 3.5/5 now 9/10

Why would you do the first rating out of 5 and the second out of 10? I'm not suggesting anyone here is incapable of multiplying by two, but given the entire point of your post is a comparison over time this just feels awkward.

With respect to your actual ranking, I am glad someone else is fond of Umbra - that and Lachryma are the two very clear winners on the album for me.

 

[Azas]

Why would you do the first rating out of 5 and the second out of 10? I'm not suggesting anyone here is incapable of multiplying by two, but given the entire point of your post is a comparison over time this just feels awkward.

With respect to your actual ranking, I am glad someone else is fond of Umbra - that and Lachryma are the two very clear winners on the album for me.

Hmm, that second ranking scale was purely spontaneous. I guess rating out of 10 just feels more varied and accurate to me? Like, 3.5 instinctively feels worse than 7. Or take a 4—it can't simultaneously mean 7, 8, or 9. Something along those lines.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Why would you do the first rating out of 5 and the second out of 10? I'm not suggesting anyone here is incapable of multiplying by two, but given the entire point of your post is a comparison over time this just feels awkward.

Don't worry, I will remember to do my next album/song ranking with rating in [number of points] out of seven-and-a-third.

For example, Cenotaph is 1 ¾ out of 7 ⅓, that is nearly 24 %

 

[srfc]

That’s pure Maiden to my ears. Anyone else hear it?

Yeah it's the Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner mainly, but it's a groove Maiden use a good bit in the reunion era.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

I've given it a couple more spins to try and hear what others are hearing...

• The first half of the album is pretty good. Peacefield is a cool, different opener that sets the scene nicely, even it does sounds way too much like journey. Lachryma and Satanized feel much more like classic Ghost songs, but with Tobias' newfound penchant for hooky choruses. Guiding Lights is a really good ballad and De Profundis Borealis also feels like old-school Ghost.
• The second half of the album is where it just really, really falls off for me.
• I like the experimentation on Cenotaph (the Children of the Grave guitar rhythm - but happy!), but I just don't vibe with the song. It sounds like something you'd ride your motorcycle to while cruising down the PCH in 1986 (and I think that was the point). I really hate that butt-shaking riff that cuts in between the chorus lines.
• Missilia Amori is up there for my least favorite songs in Ghost's discography. I dislike everything about it's arrangement, despite some cool guitar work. Marks of the Evil One feels like filler. It's fine, it just doesn't add much. Great guitar playing, though. I really dislike the "there! there!" in the chorus. Excelsis is just a big plodding ballad that also does absolutely nothing for me. Tobias doesn't have the voice to sell something like this.
• Umbra is the only saving grace on the back half of the album. It's a bit proggy, a bit heavier, a bit more classic Ghost. The instrumental almost feels like something that would have been on one of those middle-80s Dio solo albums or (obviously) Blue Oyster Cult.
• As I've said before, Fredrik is the unsung hero of this album. His playing across keeps me interested even on the weak songs.

I'll also chime in on the discussions that Tobias is considering dropping the schtick at some point: I fully believe that will be an epic failure. It will be Kiss Unmasked all over again. I like Ghost, but barring a few incredible songs, they just don't have the songwriting appeal to fill stadiums without the gimmick.

 

[UpTheIrons]

I'll also chime in on the discussions that Tobias is considering dropping the schtick at some point: I fully believe that will be an epic failure. It will be Kiss Unmasked all over again. I like Ghost, but barring a few incredible songs, they just don't have the songwriting appeal to fill stadiums without the gimmick.

I don't think TF means by this that they will drop the characters and theatrics entirely, but it seems like the point of Papa V being him in facepaint rather than a mask and having the name Perpetua is that he won't be inventing a new front man for each album cycle anymore and potentially that by the end of this particular album the lore will end up as 'and then Papa V was the singer forever and they all lived happily ever after'.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

It will be Kiss Unmasked all over again

Wasn't Kiss finally unmasking exactly the gimmick that gave them a jolt when their popularity, especially in the US, was severely dwindling and wasn't it exactly that that helped them keep their nose above water for a while? Or am I remembering it wrong?

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Wasn't Kiss finally unmasking exactly the gimmick that gave them a jolt when their popularity, especially in the US, was severely dwindling and wasn't it exactly that that helped them keep their nose above water for a while? Or am I remembering it wrong?

Eh, it's entirely possible. I'll be honest in stating that I know jack shit about KISS, nor care too. I just feel like it has historically been regarded as a joke.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Eh, it's entirely possible. I'll be honest in stating that I know jack shit about KISS, nor care too. I just feel like it has historically been regarded as a joke.

Lol, okay, fair point, I'll ask in the Kiss thread, because I'd like to know.

Anyway, with me it's really not personal with Ghost, despite my obvious particular... eh, proclivities. I like when the band has good stage presence (which on the single occassion that I saw them live Forge really didn't have), but all this clowning around in makeup is a gimmick, a bonus of sorts, just like Maiden's Eddies and such. I mean, it is never the reason why I listen to a band - it doesn't matter how much of a fan you're of old horror movies, you won't enjoy the Misfits unless you like hardcore punk.
With Kiss, I'm interested to hear the Badfingeresque Goin' Blind or the aggressive Creatures of the Night and I really don't care about their pyros and stuff - I'm a rocker by heart, not a Vegas attendee (and that's despite my love of musical theatre and opera, but those work differently).
Same with Alice Cooper, I love him as an underrated singer-songwriter (to quote Dylan) and all the prancing around decapitating dolls and guillotines and whatever is just ... kitsch. Part of the game, sure, but it isn't why people will listen to the music after he's dead and gone.

With that in mind I'm reading Forge's comments as toning down the gimmick and concentrating on the creation, on the music, which would be a good switch, but we'll see what the future brings.

 

[Mosh]

Wait a second. Is Tobias really considering dropping the Ghost gimmick? Because if he is, then they are cooked imo.

I didn't realize the context when I replied to Judas in the Kiss thread. Kiss unmasking worked because the band basically became a non-entity and they transformed into something that allowed them to get media attention. With that being said, it stopped the bleeding but eventually they did need to reunite the original four and put the makeup back on. Basically, taking the makeup off was a last ditch play to save a sinking ship, and it would be insane for Ghost to do something similar at this stage in their career.

The thing about Kiss also is that with a few exceptions, their music wasn't really tied to the stage antics/personas. Ghost's visual stick extends to the way they write songs as well, not to mention the nameless ghoul thing and the Papa Emeritus persona being the "star" of the show. It's much closer to Alice Cooper in that way where Kiss had the four characters/personalities but Alice Cooper is mainly centered around the Alice character. As far as I know, Alice never stops being Alice on stage, whereas there is a clear distinction between Gene Simmons of Gene Simmons Family Jewels and Gene Simmons the demon.

The other thing to keep in mind is that by the time Kiss unmasked, they were already down two members, so the mystique of the four personalities was pretty much gone. Peter Criss was out there doing solo albums and appearing in interviews, Ace disappeared from the public eye for a minute but he was inevitably going to return. You could argue that by the time of Lick It Up, Kiss had evolved anyway into something that didn't necessitate the makeup.

If Ghost went a similar route as Kiss, they become a different band imo.