European Politics

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

I think the Palestinians stopped doing plane bombs and hijackings some time during the 90s, so that excuse from mr Stal... sorry, Lukachenko was rather anachronistic.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Where this is going, it ends with Belarus becoming North Korea of Europe.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

With their dear leader naming himself Alexander the Great.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

The guy that was the trigger for Belarus' international crime is a criminal, far right asshat, an Azov battalion volunteer. Navalny is also a nationalist, chauvinist, criminally involved person, and about as far from socio-liberal values as Putin himself.

Eastern Europe, "the Russian problem", will never cease to be a 100% shitstorm, unless the Western socio-liberal forces drop down their mask of hypocrisy and actually start supporting someone that shares their core values.

The normal people in those countries will never do the revolution because there's no-one to do the revolution for. Russians are not for Navalny. A big share of them are against Putin and feel that approach used on Navalny has no place in a modern society. A bigger share of them are either pro Putin or pro status quo. The small minority supports opposition by name or party, and this is where Navalny has his voters.

Find someone that's actually a decent person and support his platform in the long run.

 

[Forostar]

"Russians are not for Navalny". That's state television propaganda. Not exactly in that state with free press, opposition speech.

 

[Magnus]

The guy that was the trigger for Belarus' international crime is a criminal, far right asshat, an Azov battalion volunteer. Navalny is also a nationalist, chauvinist, criminally involved person,

I might start by pointing out that I wouldn't trust everything I read on Russian and Belarusian state-controlled media. However, even if the two of them were indeed what you are saying, nothing justifies what those two fascist regimes have done. To them or to a number of their citizens.

 

[Magnus]

"Russians are not for Navalny". That's state television propaganda. You know, in that that state with free press, free opposition, freedom of speech.
NOT.

As a matter of fact, lots and lots of Russians are not "for Navalny" indeed, for a number of different reasons. Apart from Putin loyalists, or those who don't give a damn, there are also lots of people feeling he's not exactly the democratic leader they'd like to see as pointed out by Zare, there are also those who find him too damn liberal, etc. But after his poisoning and imprisonment many of those who disagree with his views and values insist on his liberation nevertheless, because of their values.

Edit: That's my impression, I have no first-hand observations, fortunately.

 

[Magnus]

I might start by pointing out that I wouldn't trust everything I read on Russian and Belarusian state-controlled media. However, even if the two of them were indeed what you are saying, nothing justifies what those two fascist regimes have done. To them or to a number of their citizens.

And speaking of criminals, even convicted criminals, let's not forget that a local coordinator of Navalny's foundation was recently given 2.5 years of penal colony on charges of distributing pornography online. What he did was reposting a Rammstein video in 2014.

 

[Forostar]

It is obvious why he is imprisoned. He's getting too popular.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

I might start by pointing out that I wouldn't trust everything I read on Russian and Belarusian state-controlled media.

What makes you think I got that from Russian or Belarusian state media. The very approach is irritating. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend and who says anything against him I deem as a Kremlin bot". Fuck both Putin, Lukashenko, Navalny and this previously unknown Azov propagandist

Protaševič je u kontakt s ukrajinskim neonacistima došao krajem 2013., u svojoj 19. godini, kada je otišao u Kijev i pridružio se pobuni na Majdanu protiv tadašnjeg proruskog predsjednika Ukrajine Viktora Janukoviča. Od svih opozicijskih pokreta u tadašnjem Kijevu Protaševič se pridružio onom najdesnijem – neonacističkoj stranci Svoboda. Među ostalim, s članovima Svobode sudjelovao je u rušenju Lenjinova spomenika u Kijevu.

Spomenuta stranka poznata je po organiziranju noćnih marševa s bakljama ulicama Kijeva na rođendan Stepana Bandere, ukrajinskog nacističkog kolaboracionista iz Drugog svjetskog rata.

I dok njegova prisutnost u bojni Azov nije sporna, još uvijek je nejasno u kojem se svojstvu – kao borac, volonter ili novinar - tamo nalazio. Svjedočenja o tome pomalo su kontradiktorna, a čini se da je najbliže istini teza da je bio u direktnoj službi bojne kao propagandist.

Tako prvi zapovjednik Azova, poznati ukrajinski neonacist Andrej Biljetski, ovih dana u poruci na mreži Telegram tvrdi sljedeće:

„Protaševič je bio s nama, borio se protiv okupacije Ukrajine zajedno s Azovom i drugim vojnim jedinicama. Bio je s nama u Širokinu (naselje blizu Mariupolja, op. D.P.), gdje je i ranjen. No njegovo oružje, kao novinara, nije bila puška već riječi.”

Ovu verziju još ranije je, u razgovoru s ruskim blogerom Jurijem Dudom, potvrdio i sam Protaševič, kada se otvoreno hvalio da je za vrijeme ukrajinskog rata proveo duže vrijeme u Donbasu:

„Bio sam tamo s kamerom. Da, ranjen sam, ali sam sve to vrijeme bio tamo kao novinar”, rekao je Protaševič.

Ukrajinski list „Zerkalo Nedeli” također piše da je Protašević radio za Azov kao novinar, dok britanski ratni reporter Jake Hanrahan tvrdi, međutim, kako je Protaševič na frontu u istočnoj Ukrajini bio kao borac, ali u bjeloruskoj dobrovoljačkoj jedinici koja se borila uz Azov.

But after his poisoning and imprisonment many of those who disagree with his views and values insist on his liberation nevertheless, because of their values.

Exactly what I said in my post, his popularity is about being fucked by the state and not about his capacities of leading the said state.
For most Russians Navalny is a consequence and not a solution.

 

[Magnus]

What makes you think I got that from Russian or Belarusian state media. The very approach is irritating. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend and who says anything against him I deem as a Kremlin bot". Fuck both Putin, Lukashenko, Navalny and this previously unknown Azov propagandist

I never said anything about Kremlin bots, I just pointed out that you called both of them criminals, and that's what the above-mentioned media seem to see them as, as well.
The "previously unknown Azov propagandist" is in trouble not because of what he did or didn't do in Ukraine but because of Nexta and its role in protests last year.
I seem to be missing the point of your post apparently, apologies.

 

[Magnus]

Exactly what I said in my post, his popularity is about being fucked by the state and not about his capacities of leading the said state.

Did I argue with that? I was responding to Foro, saying that many Russians are not "for him" indeed.

For most Russians Navalny is a consequence and not a solution.

I am not in the position to judge about "most" Russians, and I suspect most of the Russian Federation's population have a very vague idea of who he is.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

I seem to be missing the point of your post apparently, apologies.

Our support for democratic change in those environments is misdirected.
We should support people like Navalny in the context of getting their freedom and rights back. We shouldn't support people like him in their political quests.

That's my point.

 

[Magnus]

Our support for democratic change in those environments is misdirected.
We should support people like Navalny in the context of getting their freedom and rights back. We shouldn't support people like him in their political quests.

That's my point.

I totally agree.

 

[Magnus]

Fuck both Putin, Lukashenko,

 

[Forostar]

A big fuck you to Orban, his anti-LGBT law and all politicians who support this. Hungary can't be forced out of the EU, but they can be hit financially.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

The bridge that connects Dubrovnik area with the rest of the country has been completed. The access roads are still in the works, the corridor will be opened in January 2022 which means that the only(?) enclave of the EU will be gone.

There has been dismay from Bosnian goverment (the Federation part which is Bosniak majority controlled) about locking out their port of Neum. Maybe EU/Croatia has seemed too harsh in just negating their claims of being a 'maritime country' and such, but the real world situation is, Bosnia does not have an open access to the sea and never had because it was always locked out by goodwill of those surrounding it. Back when Neum corridor happened, it were Ottoman buffer zone between Venice/Dalmatia and Dubrovnik. They could use it because Dubrovnik was their vassal, so they went though their waters. That lasted for about 100 years and then Austrians just took both Dalmatia, Dubrovnik and Bay of Kotor and blocked out Ottomans permanently. Situation was rendered largely irrelevant once various Yugoslavias happened, to be raised once again after the separation of Yugoslav countries.

In modern times, all visits are regulated through treaty between Croatia and Bosnia. The depth of the bay of Neum does not allow for any kind of heavy infrastructure, economic or military, and even if it did, all those things need to pass through Croatian waters and have explicit permission if they're not a part of the original treaty.

There's actually a corridor in between Slovenia and open Mediterranean access through Adriatic, which gets narrowed down to 1 meter in between my region/county and Italy because we have a continuous spread of islands all the way to 30 miles from their coast, and then they have some islands in that part too. Technically there's no space in between and this is a clean maritime border between Croatia and Italy, but 1 meter corridor allows Slovenians technical access to the open sea.

Bosnia never had this kind of a legal arrangement. For instance if Croatian Navy blocked them tomorrow they'd have no legal option of war, only judicial process, arbitration and stuff, about the legal arrangement from 1999.

Normal people from Bosnia cringe at this because it's only populist moves from their goverment. Talks like we're blocking their prospects of making a largest port on the Adriatic and shit like that. On the other hand, protection of coast is virtually nonexistent in Bosnian 'part' of the Adriatic, where you're still able to destroy shore rocks in order to get finger shells out of them, blatantly pour concrete all over the scenery, do not care about maritime life, etc. I mean shit happens every day in Croatia especially regarding concrete interventions around the sea, but it's not legal at least. And for the shells, destruction of habitat or other life penalties are big and that's enforced at least. The bay is possibly the shittiest region of the Eastern Adriatic and that's saying much because there are 100m chimneys spread out around some serious industry in the Kvarner bay up north, yet it's a tourist powerhouse compared to Neum.

In any case the sorry state of Bosnian Fed. goverment's diplomacy just reflects the condition of the country. And then it prompts neutral people like me to review their position, and then realize that if there are hidden gems on the shore, Neum gets to be a hidden cows' shitpile. So why take your position into consideration at all, especially considering the legal circumstances. Very weak, possibly the most pathetic 'politics' in exYu in current decade.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

@Perun

There's a serious problem with the love for autocracy in many western countries these days and it's in large part Putin's doing by meddling with internal affairs, letting loose troll bots and buying right-wing politicians. It's a fucking nightmare and people are just buying into it. Can you tell a Russian bot from a MAGA retard? Can we even know Q isn't a creature of Putin's? It would be great if at least we could be certain there's nobody in our parliaments who isn't secretly sucking his dick, but we can't.

The love of autocracy is not Russian influenced they just pour oil on that particular fire which should be stopped at any means necessary. Example here would be latest right wing project in Croatia, the Homeland Movement, which was partly Kremlin paid, but the political things at hand are firmly out of the Russian context which means voters are voting for them on the grounds of something internal. Which in turn means that we have a problem of our own, which Russia is trying to exploit for their profit, but the problem is inherently ours.

Russia has a documented approach of instigating bullshit via funding. I don't know whether QAnon's founding has to do with them, but its certainly on their payroll, just like NRA.

The problem with checks and control are strategic projects which ensure a huge flow of money and hence actors can redistribute wealth through them. You can ban Russian oligarchs from doing bussiness in Europe and being paid via European money and banks, but they can partially be paid through oil and gas revenue. Therefore all we did is hurt the budget of an average Russian, while the cats have stashes and channels to pull diminished, but still, profits.

Therefore if you cut off all the market between goverments, large flow of money becomes impossible and Kremlin starts losing serious cash, then you can control your local politicians because of the erected wall. Through what means is he to receive his bribe, go with a bag to Polish Belarussian border?

 

[Perun]

Now they put up the posters for the electoral campaign. I decided eight months ago who I'm going to vote for so I can ignore the campaign - but now it's going to be everywhere.

 

[Magnus]