European Politics

It's really an absurd story. If this had been the plot of a film, I'd have never been able to suspend my disbelief.
 
Perun said:
There's another way traditionally used by Austrian politicians to become head of the country. First, he has to go to Germany.
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I guess the EU skeptics in Austria feel (especially with Germany's dominant role in the union) that Anschluss 2.0 is already a reality :ninja:
 
Another terrorist attack in Turkey. This time in Kayseri, 10+ soldiers dead. Likely perpetrated by the PKK once again. This is the 16th overall terrorist attack in Turkey in 2016.
 
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All the PKK are doing with these attacks is convincing Erdogan and his supporters that they're doing the right thing. It's just so sad at this point.
 
Forostar said:
All Erdogan and co. are doing is convincing PKK that they're doing the right thing. It's just sad at this point.
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Well yeah, that's the crux of the issue, they're feeding into each other. I think it goes without saying that I hate Erdogan.
 
RTC said:
All the PKK are doing with these attacks is convincing Erdogan and his supporters that they're doing the right thing. It's just so sad at this point.
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Yup, sadly. This is probably what they're after anyway, pretty sure nobody is enjoying Turkey drowning in chaos more than the PKK.

Edit: As guessed, PKK claimed responsibility for the attack.
 
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Also worth mentioning, the people who carried out the attack in Istanbul came from Syria, straight out of the PYD/YPG camps. So much for that "PYD/YPG are unrelated to the PKK" bullshit.
 
Forostar said:
O? I heard this: Kurdistan Freedom Falcons, or TAK (not people from camps).
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I'm talking specifically about the attacker, not the group he belongs to. The attacker was a person born in 1996, was trained in Kobane and joined TAK in Lice. TAK is PKK affiliated. It's not an uncommon practice for fighters training in the PYD camps to join TAK to carry out attacks in Turkey. These organizations are all in co-operation, PYD's leader quite clearly pledges alliance to PKK's founder, their fighters even carry his pictures around. They also partake in Kongra-Gel, which is PKK's congress, basically.

The denial of the PYD - PKK co-operation is the thing that gets on my nerves following Western news outlets recently. It's tragic and hilarious at the same time. Americans are dancing around on this topic because PYD is their partner in fighting ISIS in Syria, they know damn well that they have ties to the PKK but they don't want to alienate their NATO ally in Turkey, so they take the easy way out by claiming they're a seperate organization without ties to the PKK.
 
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I am not denying ties between the groups. But I am not leaving out the fraction he belongs to either. I wonder if Erdogan makes any distinction. Doesn't he call everyone terrorists or landbetrayer if they show any form of criticism?
 
Forostar said:
I am not denying ties between the groups. But I am not leaving out the fraction he belongs to either. I wonder if Erdogan makes any distinction. Doesn't he call everyone terrorists or landbetrayer if they show any form of criticism?
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Trying to explain Erdoğan's mindset is a futile attempt for any reasonable person, there's no defense for it. I think the way he and his followers accuse every critic of being betrayers and terrorists blurs the distinction of some actual terrorists (Gülenists, PKK, etc.), at least in the eyes of outsiders. That's incredibly counterproductive.

For reasonable people though, there's still very little distinction between PYD and PKK and none at all between TAK and PKK. Normal criticism is obviously different and it's a shame that some either get punished for it, or are subjected to smear campaigns. Sick of the lack of freedom of speech, for sure.
 
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Forostar said:
Is there distinction for reasonable persons between Gülenists and terrorists?
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Yes, some are merely symphatizers. For people engaged in the coup attempt and those who financially or logistically supported them, no.

Though a key point that should be underlined is that Erdoğan and co. were aligned with Gülenists for the vast majority of their years in power, and they allowed Gülenists to infiltrate key positions within the army and the state themselves. So Erdoğan and co. can't say "Oh, we're the victims, oh pity us" without coming off as disingenious.

There was a time when we, the secular social democratic voter base, took a lot of heat from Erdoğan and his supporters for criticizing Gülen. The same people who fought against Gülen during Erdoğan-Gülen cooperation are now sometimes called Gülenists by Erdoğan supporters in smear campaigns because they oppose Erdoğan. Pretty sad.
 
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The Flash said:
Yes, some are merely symphatizers. For people engaged in the coup attempt and those who financially or logistically supported them, no.

Though a key point that should be underlined is that Erdoğan and co. were aligned with Gülenists for the vast majority of their years in power, and they allowed Gülenists to infiltrate key positions within the army and the state themselves. So Erdoğan and co. can't say "Oh, we're the victims, oh pity us" without coming off as disingenious.

There was a time when we, the secular social democratic voter base, took a lot of heat from Erdoğan and his supporters for criticizing Gülen. The same people who fought against Gülen during Erdoğan-Gülen cooperation are now sometimes called Gülenists by Erdoğan supporters in smear campaigns because they oppose Erdoğan. Pretty sad.
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Divide and conquer, the classic way of authoritarian politicians :(
 
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