European Politics

Ottomans were in my backyard for hundreds of years. We know how they rolled. There are books written about Ottoman balkan affairs which specifically mention part of my family that's from Montenegro.
Your freedom was bought with your money. Even so, at some periods in history, granting a 'tribute in blood' to them was mandatory. Tribute in blood is your children for their army.

When you look at all those years, they weren't so different than your average conquest army - just imagine the general concept of human rights in 17th century and you'll know what I mean.
But the small issue with the whole shebang is that nobody invited them and nobody wanted them. Here. They were attacking the government which was legit and it's legitimacy achieved via passing of rights from original settlers. 1000+ yrs. I don't care about your good intentions or whatever, invader GTFO.

Edit : maybe some historical tidbids worth mentioning. Serbia in whole was rulled by Ottomans for quite some time, great hatred on the Serb side, and whole Serb-Muslim affairs in 1990s had its roots there. But there's an expression - pusto tursko - which means Turkish aplenty. There's also an saying everywhere throughout the ex-YU, turcin krvav do gleznjeva, a poturica do koljena. Poturice were locals who were 'turkified'. The saying means Turk bloody to the ankles, Turkified local to the knees. From the two I would conclude that Ottomans rewarded 'traitors' comparatively higher than others, so they might had that going for them.
 
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That's no different than what happened in Ireland, Boston, and even my home town when the Catholic sex scandals started breaking. Local politicians clamped down on the police investigations and helped the Church bury it. It took a concentrated effort by the press to break the story, and it's still breaking.

I bet if we look deep into any religion, any group that has that kind of thrallic control over young children, we will see pedophiles a-plenty.
 
I don't think the correlation between Islamic fanaticism and child abuse is a coincidence. Aside from the news that I talked about, there are a ton of news being reported of children being raped and abused. Common theme? The rapist has an Islamic background. I'm obviously not generalizing it for all Muslims. But fanatical Muslims are really, I mean really fucked up in the head.

Though it's not to say the correlation comes strictly from the religion itself. Religious fanaticism thrives in ignorance and bigotry and abuse of children thrives in the same conditions. And majority of the Middle East is ignorance and bigotry laden.
 
Maybe, I am not sure. I think though if you have youth groups .. those would be the kind of things that pedophiles would gravitate towards. I am not sure it makes much of a difference who sponsors the group. It is disgusting as hell when you have the overall sponsors (like a church or whatever) turn a blind eye to eye to it .. no doubt about that.

Yeah, no doubt fanatical Muslims are one fucked up group of people
 
No objection on my part to the youth group argument. I'm almost sure that there are child abusers who strive to excel at fields where they can get into touch with children easily. And religious preaching/teaching is one of them. Most religious parents have an unshakable trust for the religious leaders and see fit -even ideal- to send their children to them.

Adding to LC's argument, don't think it pertains to a specific religion anyway. Ignorance and bigotry has to combine with the religion to have a destructive effect. If Europe was as ignorant and bigoted as Middle East is right now, Christianity would be on blast instead of Islam. (Hell you can already make the argument for the Medieval)
 
bearfan said:
I am guessing large youth groups in the Communist days in Eastern Europe had similar issues.
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That's 100% false. Communists were a lot of things but they weren't child molesters. As a child growing up in a Communist country, I can testify that sexual abuse of children was not a part of our society back then. If there were such instances, they were very isolated and in no way related to the Communist youth organisations.
 
Ariana said:
That's 100% false. Communists were a lot of things but they weren't child molesters. As a child growing up in a Communist country, I can testify that sexual abuse of children was not a part of our society back then. If there were such instances, they were very isolated and in no way related to the Communist youth organisations.
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I was not implying it was policy, just that I would think in whatever youth groups there were under them (or any other similar regime) that there were some bad people involved who took advantage of the situation.
 
That's not how it worked. Communism relied heavily on people spying on each other all the time; constantly. It was impossible for something like that to go unnoticed or be covered. Moreover, there were incentives for those who reported wrongdoings, so if there had been anything like that, it would have been brought into the light immediately. Or at least brought to the police.
 
Ariana said:
That's not how it worked. Communism relied heavily on people spying on each other all the time; constantly. It was impossible for something like that to go unnoticed or be covered. Moreover, there were incentives for those who reported wrongdoings, so if there had been anything like that, it would have been brought into the light immediately. Or at least brought to the police.
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Interesting, thanks.
 
To be honest, anyone fanatical enough to justify these crimes are fucked in the head, religious or otherwise, it's just that religion is the most common shield used to defend from scrutiny from these atrocities.

Also, Flash, as a Turkish native, I'm interested in hearing where you see yourself on a religious spectrum.
 
Ariana said:
Communism relied heavily on people spying on each other all the time; constantly. It was impossible for something like that to go unnoticed or be covered.
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Just a general comment, not per se directed at child abuse:
How reliable were authorities under Communism? What I've understood is that Communist regimes did their utmost best to hide wrongdoings. While the Nazis photographed and registered a lot of what they did, the Soviets hid as much as they could.

If a Commie did it, it would probably be hidden.
 
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Dutch reject EU-Ukraine deal
Provisional turnout just under the threshold needed to send deal back to parliament.
By CYNTHIA KROET 4/6/16, 9:13 PM CET Updated 4/6/16, 9:32 PM CET

The Dutch rejected an EU deal with Ukraine in a referendum on Wednesday, with 64 percent voting No, according to an exit poll.
According to a first exit poll by the broadcaster NOS, the turnout was 29 percent when polling stations closed at 9 p.m. However, when NOS published an updated exit poll 30 minutes after voting closed, it put the turnout at 32 percent.
The final result will come in late Wednesday evening, polling organization Ipsossaid.

The result of the referendum is non-binding, but a No vote, combined with a turnout of more than 30 percent, would mean the deal having to be discussed again by parliament.

The deal, which aims at improving trade between the EU and Ukraine, provisionally came into force on January 1, but needs to be ratified by all 28 EU members.

The referendum was seen by many political commentators as a vote on the EU and the government led by Prime Minister Mark Rutte.

It was the first referendum to take place under a Dutch law that obliges forces the government to call a public vote on any petition that gets the support of 300,000 people.
 
Meanwhile in Northern Ireland politics....
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