TheSeventhSonRoberto
Rockin in Rio
It sucks I wasn't able to see Dream Theater open up for Maiden a few years ago.
Black Wizard
Pleb Hunter
Also, the shows are officially Evening Withs! 3 hours of Dream Theater
That news makes missing this tour even harder to bear...
Album artwork and tracklist revealed!
1. FALSE AWAKENING SUITE
i. Sleep Paralysis
ii. Night Terrors
iii. Lucid Dream
2. THE ENEMY INSIDE
3. THE LOOKING GLASS
4. ENIGMA MACHINE
5. THE BIGGER PICTURE
6. BEHIND THE VEIL
7. SURRENDER TO REASON
8. ALONG FOR THE RIDE
9. ILLUMINATION THEORY
i. Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire
ii. Live, Die, Kill
iii. The Embracing Circle
iv. The Pursuit of Truth
v. Surrender, Trust & Passion
============
Looks like some of their most proggy titles since the early 90's. Two multipart epics sounds delicious as well.
1. FALSE AWAKENING SUITE
i. Sleep Paralysis
ii. Night Terrors
iii. Lucid Dream
2. THE ENEMY INSIDE
3. THE LOOKING GLASS
4. ENIGMA MACHINE
5. THE BIGGER PICTURE
6. BEHIND THE VEIL
7. SURRENDER TO REASON
8. ALONG FOR THE RIDE
9. ILLUMINATION THEORY
i. Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire
ii. Live, Die, Kill
iii. The Embracing Circle
iv. The Pursuit of Truth
v. Surrender, Trust & Passion
============
Looks like some of their most proggy titles since the early 90's. Two multipart epics sounds delicious as well.
425
Starblind
Also, Roadrunner has confirmed that one song (probably Illumination Theory) is over 20 minutes long and that there are songs that are less than 5 minutes long.
I'm thinking 10-15 minutes for the False Awakening Suite and Illumination Theory could, to me, be anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes (but probably closer to 20, probably 22-25 range like ACOS, 8VM and ITPOE).
Very excited for the new album, which looks like it could very easily be one of their best. And I can use the 2 and a half months until its release to get the albums I don't have yet (When Dream and Day Unite, Falling Into Infinity and A Dramatic Turn of Events).
I'm thinking 10-15 minutes for the False Awakening Suite and Illumination Theory could, to me, be anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes (but probably closer to 20, probably 22-25 range like ACOS, 8VM and ITPOE).
Very excited for the new album, which looks like it could very easily be one of their best. And I can use the 2 and a half months until its release to get the albums I don't have yet (When Dream and Day Unite, Falling Into Infinity and A Dramatic Turn of Events).
Yea heard the podcast. I'd be surprised if IT wasn't the 20 minute song.
False Awakening seems like it could be an AMBI time trilogy, which would be really cool because I've been wanting them to revisit that trilogy idea sine I got into the band. AMBI is great but I thought it was a bit lopsided. Definitely getting an Octavarium/ACOS vibe with Illumination Theory, as opposed to ITPOE or The Count, which is great because 8vm and ACOS are in my top three (8vm being my favorite song of all time).
I'm really excited about this album for a lot of reasons. It looks like they're not playing it safe anymore and this could easily be their most bold artistic statement since Scenes. Which makes sense, now would be the perfect time for that. I hope for something with the dark heaviness of Awake mixed with the experimentation and progressive nature of Six Degrees, my two favorite albums.
False Awakening seems like it could be an AMBI time trilogy, which would be really cool because I've been wanting them to revisit that trilogy idea sine I got into the band. AMBI is great but I thought it was a bit lopsided. Definitely getting an Octavarium/ACOS vibe with Illumination Theory, as opposed to ITPOE or The Count, which is great because 8vm and ACOS are in my top three (8vm being my favorite song of all time).
I'm really excited about this album for a lot of reasons. It looks like they're not playing it safe anymore and this could easily be their most bold artistic statement since Scenes. Which makes sense, now would be the perfect time for that. I hope for something with the dark heaviness of Awake mixed with the experimentation and progressive nature of Six Degrees, my two favorite albums.
425
Starblind
Just to clarify, I wasn't really doubting that you were acquainted with all the current information, I was just trying to make sure all the relevant information made its way here, since some of the other people participating in this thread probably aren't active at DTF.
I definitely agree that AMBI is lopsided. Not precisely sure what it is, but something about it feels a little off to me. Hopefully, False Awakening will be more streamlined as a single piece. Where AMBI feels like three songs that are loosely linked by sharing musical themes, I want False Awakening to feel like a single song with three unique parts.
Judging from having heard none of the music whatsoever, I would guess that Illumination Theory is more similar to Octavarium than anything else but with a hint of In the Presence of Enemies. Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire sounds like an instrumental intro, perhaps partially ambient like Octavarium's but they probably won't repeat that same thing entirely. Meanwhile, Live, Die, Kill sounds like a heavier section, maybe like something out of ITPOE. I'm not sure exactly where the next two parts would go though the titleThe Embracing Circle is reminiscent of Full Circle. And I really get the sense that Surrender, Trust & Passion will be in the same family as Razor's Edge. I'm not predicting that they'll rewrite Octavarium, and I'm certain that Illumination Theory will be its own thing entirely, but the titles of some of the sections suggest to me the basic type of music they might be.
This album definitely does not seem safe, from the title to the art to the tracklist. I think it probably will be a very ambitious work, much moreso than anything since Octavarium at least, and if Illumination Theory is near the title track of that album in quality and the rest of the s/t is better than the rest of 8vm, it could be their greatest artistic statement since SDOIT.
I definitely agree that AMBI is lopsided. Not precisely sure what it is, but something about it feels a little off to me. Hopefully, False Awakening will be more streamlined as a single piece. Where AMBI feels like three songs that are loosely linked by sharing musical themes, I want False Awakening to feel like a single song with three unique parts.
Judging from having heard none of the music whatsoever, I would guess that Illumination Theory is more similar to Octavarium than anything else but with a hint of In the Presence of Enemies. Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire sounds like an instrumental intro, perhaps partially ambient like Octavarium's but they probably won't repeat that same thing entirely. Meanwhile, Live, Die, Kill sounds like a heavier section, maybe like something out of ITPOE. I'm not sure exactly where the next two parts would go though the titleThe Embracing Circle is reminiscent of Full Circle. And I really get the sense that Surrender, Trust & Passion will be in the same family as Razor's Edge. I'm not predicting that they'll rewrite Octavarium, and I'm certain that Illumination Theory will be its own thing entirely, but the titles of some of the sections suggest to me the basic type of music they might be.
This album definitely does not seem safe, from the title to the art to the tracklist. I think it probably will be a very ambitious work, much moreso than anything since Octavarium at least, and if Illumination Theory is near the title track of that album in quality and the rest of the s/t is better than the rest of 8vm, it could be their greatest artistic statement since SDOIT.
Oh yea, I get why you posted. Just wanted to clarify that I've been following this stuff too. With the DT news, I've been checking DTF on a daily basis lately.
I really love all three songs, Voices is one of their best epics, but it pales in comparison to other multipart epics, I have a hard time justifying it being a real "trilogy".
But yea, I expect this to a top tier DT album. I'm already anticipating it more than ADTOE. I was thinking that I'd love for an Awake meets Six Degrees meets Train Of Thought type sound.
The problem for me is that the three pieces do little to compliment each other. Erotomania is a cool instrumental but I was pretty disappointed to find that none of the themes established in it were found in Voices. Conversely, the bit from Eroto that's in Silent Man is one of the coolest moments on Awake. I'll cut them some slack as they were just starting to get the hang of that musical reprise thing, like pasting Space Dye Vest in The Mirror. Had they written it 5 years later, it would've connected better I'm sure.
I really love all three songs, Voices is one of their best epics, but it pales in comparison to other multipart epics, I have a hard time justifying it being a real "trilogy".
I would hope that they don't rewrite Octavarium and the song recycling ended with ADTOE, but I get where you're coming from. Maybe it's the Symphony X fan in me talking, but I get the filling that Paradoxe de la Lumière Noire will be a brutal symphonic intro (Remember they got an orchestra for this album). Something along the lines of SDOIT Overture meets the instrumental parts of ITPOE. I'm thinking IT will be dark, heavy and epic.
But yea, I expect this to a top tier DT album. I'm already anticipating it more than ADTOE. I was thinking that I'd love for an Awake meets Six Degrees meets Train Of Thought type sound.
425
Starblind
I agree with this 100%. When I first got Awake, it was only my third DT album after I&W and ToT, so the whole idea of a three song suite was pretty novel. For that reason, I really liked it at first, as in "three songs that go together and follow one theme? You can DO that?" But once I heard A Change of Seasons, Six Degrees and especially Octavarium, the weaknesses of AMBI started to show and the shine wore off for me. To me, AMBI is two middle-of-the-road DT songs and one above-average one (Voices).
That would be amazing. I definitely hope they use the orchestra more liberally on this album than they did on Octavarium. The orchestra parts on that album were good but there weren't enough of them. It would be fantastic if a good amount of Illumination Theory used an orchestra to compliment heavy playing on the part of the band. I think that may be what they need to top Octavarium with this song.
I definitely think this has the potential to be a top tier album. The fact that what we've seen so far indicates that it will tend more towards the metal side has only made it sound better. To me, they aren't going to top Images and Words (which is my personal favorite of their albums) by remaking it. They need to emphasize what that album lacked, which is some of the dark, heavy elements. Use of those combined with orchestral parts and lengthier, more progressive epics will, in my mind, bring this closer to being the quintessential DT album. I think that this group of musicians has the talent to write something better than anything Dream Theater has ever written before. And the albums you listed combined would be a perfect recipe for an album of that caliber. The daring experimentation of SDOIT, the brooding darkness of Awake and the heavy progressiveness of ToT combined into one album.
Yea, Awake was my first album, actually. So I didn't really know what to expect going in, but I was aware of track lengths of BC&SL which was the latest album at the time, and I remember being disappointed that the longest track was only 11 minutes. I thought a trilogy of songs would be this grand epic thing, and it wasn't. Once I shook the initial disappointment I've come to like all three songs quite a bit, and of course Awake is tied with 6DOIT for my favorite DT album. Also, Scarred, which was only 11 minutes has come to be my 2nd favorite DT song. So I've definitely gotten over my "length is everything" phase.
I agree, though I liked how the orchestra was used on Octavarium. It wasn't over the top, but then again, neither were most of the songs. The little orchestral interludes in Answer Lies Within and Sacrificed Sons are really cool. With this album, it seems like they're definitely pushing boundaries, so yea, orchestra should be more in your face.
Agreed again. I don't think remaking Awake or SDOIT would do much for me. They pretty much remade I&W with ADTOE and while that album was pretty good, I'd rather throw on the original any day of the week. That said, a combination of my two favorite albums with a third that was an awesome idea though intentionally one dimensional (but an album that I love, despite what others may think) and this could potentially be my favorite album. Not going to get too far ahead of myself though.
Also, I hope they ditch the ballads, or at least tone it down a bit. Their ballads haven't done anything for me since Octavarium and have honestly sounded kind of forced. Beneath The Surface being an exception, but that was such an anomaly that I'm not gonna hold my breath on them making something as good anytime soon.
425
Starblind
Yea, Awake was my first album, actually. So I didn't really know what to expect going in, but I was aware of track lengths of BC&SL which was the latest album at the time, and I remember being disappointed that the longest track was only 11 minutes. I thought a trilogy of songs would be this grand epic thing, and it wasn't. Once I shook the initial disappointment I've come to like all three songs quite a bit, and of course Awake is tied with 6DOIT for my favorite DT album. Also, Scarred, which was only 11 minutes has come to be my 2nd favorite DT song. So I've definitely gotten over my "length is everything" phase.
Yeah, though I got Awake before getting any of the really lengthy stuff, I do remember being aware of the lengths of songs like Octavarium and wondering why it and I&W didn't really have anything beyond 11 minutes (especially since they were supposed to be DT's best). But length definitely isn't everything and I would also place Scarred in my top ten, though I haven't completely worked that out yet (I'm very obsessive about that type of thing and so I go through a probably unnecessarily meticulous process when working up a ranking).
As I've said, I don't actually have ADTOE yet, but I have heard stuff about it being similar to I&W. Though some people dispute that, there does seem to be a consensus that it was a safe album to prove that they could make it without Portnoy, which is exactly what I'm hoping the new one isn't. A hope that seems so far to be coming true.
SDOIT is in my top 3 and Awake is in my top 5 (plus I love all of DT's albums, just some to different degrees), so I would definitely like to see more like those two. ToT is actually probably near the bottom of my list (I don't have WDADU, FII or ADTOE, but of the ones I have BCSL would probably be last and then ToT second-last), but I still love the album (it was my first DT, so obviously I liked it enough to get I&W). My issue with it is definitely the fact that it is one-dimensional and the fact that several of the songs don't really sound to me like DT, with overuse of LaBrie rapping (instead of MP's semi-growling which I actually would have preferred) and Jordan sometimes being buried or just plain underused (I like on songs like The Mirror and The Glass Prison how they contrast heavy riffs with light keyboards and I think they threw that out a lot on ToT for pure heaviness). Again, though, I still love the album with Endless Sacrifice and In the Name of God particularly standing out, the latter probably fitting into my top ten.
I've not heard ADTOE and therefore BTS, but I have to begrudgingly state at least partial agreement with this analysis. Wither and Repentance just don't do much for me and are my least favorite songs on their respective albums. I do like The Answer Lies Within but it is my least favorite on 8VM and I feel like it doesn't fit on the album. I do greatly enjoy The Ministry of Lost Souls (if you're counting that as a ballad), but pretty much no one else does on account of the instrumental section, so I'm not really expecting agreement on that.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
First off, what the hell is that cover? The band is oversimplificating the important aspects outside the music. An eponymous title and a cover consisting of a semi image of globe and the Majesty logo. That's far from being exciting, especially since DT is known for their great album covers as well. For example, seeing A Dramatic Turn of Events' artwork got me excited. This one? Far from it.
Now tracklist on the other hand, is exciting. Even more so than the last album. The idea of two suites in the same album is pretty cool. The song titles are looking inspired. Learning that there are some shorter songs here and there is very very cool. To be honest, I hate listening to back-to-back epics or whatever. It gets boring while listening to the album as a whole after a while no matter how good the songs are. The middle part of ADTOE was an example of that. Too many long songs. Putting out some longer pieces and some shorter pieces is a good strategy.
I expect False Awakening Suite to be 10+ minutes and The Bigger Picture (my prediction as the Myung song on the album) to be close to it. Lyrically, False Awakening Suite is promising, it definitely is a subject that could light some bulbs on a lyricist's head. Illumination Theory most likely is about Illuminati. Seeing the lyrics to A Rite of Passage before, I expect some classic DT cheesy lyrics from that one.
The song titles don't bring any kind of expectation to me in terms of hearing another ballad. DT ballads past 2000 sounded cheesy and forced almost exclusively. Stop the "taking a breath before the explosion" nonsense and just go for it. Some fast, powerful five-six minute songs would be awesome. The Test That Stumped Them All and Strange Deja Vu spring to my mind.
I'm definitely excited about this album. Last album was a great step and a safe yet creative album. This time let's hear a risky and creative album. I'm with Mosh on his expectations of an experimentation.
Now tracklist on the other hand, is exciting. Even more so than the last album. The idea of two suites in the same album is pretty cool. The song titles are looking inspired. Learning that there are some shorter songs here and there is very very cool. To be honest, I hate listening to back-to-back epics or whatever. It gets boring while listening to the album as a whole after a while no matter how good the songs are. The middle part of ADTOE was an example of that. Too many long songs. Putting out some longer pieces and some shorter pieces is a good strategy.
I expect False Awakening Suite to be 10+ minutes and The Bigger Picture (my prediction as the Myung song on the album) to be close to it. Lyrically, False Awakening Suite is promising, it definitely is a subject that could light some bulbs on a lyricist's head. Illumination Theory most likely is about Illuminati. Seeing the lyrics to A Rite of Passage before, I expect some classic DT cheesy lyrics from that one.
The song titles don't bring any kind of expectation to me in terms of hearing another ballad. DT ballads past 2000 sounded cheesy and forced almost exclusively. Stop the "taking a breath before the explosion" nonsense and just go for it. Some fast, powerful five-six minute songs would be awesome. The Test That Stumped Them All and Strange Deja Vu spring to my mind.
I'm definitely excited about this album. Last album was a great step and a safe yet creative album. This time let's hear a risky and creative album. I'm with Mosh on his expectations of an experimentation.
Nope, I'm gonna bet that it's about St Augustine's Theory of Illumination. Given JP's Roman Catholic background and the Italian overture, this seems likely. Also, please no more songs about secret societies. A Rite Of Passage is one of their worst, lyrically and musically.
It works when done right. I love Disappear, Vacant, and Wait For Sleep for those reasons mostly (I think Disappear is amazing on its own). Far From Heaven just missed the mark completely though. It didn't do anything to build up BAI, in fact it's kind of a bummer to listen to. Would've been better to just have BAI come after Outcry, a good 3 epic onslaught. Nice lyrics though. This Is The Life annoyed me. In fact, it goes on the list of DT songs that I actively dislike. The last three albums have all had at least one of those, would be nice if DT12 didn't. Beneath The Surface, however, was executed perfectly. It's the ending credits song. And it's the first time JP wrote quality lyrics since like, Octavarium. 2 years later and I'm sticking with my theory that it's his answer to Space Dye Vest, which I think is brilliant in many different ways.
You'll probably like it. None of it had any real staying power with me but it did have some good moments. Looking forward to potentially having my opinion changed when Luna Park comes out, I imagine those songs are more powerful live. I think in retrospect, ADTOE will be seen as their way of saying "We're still Dream Theater and we're not going anywhere." Something that we needed to hear from them at the time, but as time goes on such a statement isn't relevant anymore. Think about how people look at 2112 nowadays, most would say it's middle tier Rush, at best. The only difference is they weren't playing it safe and they were making an even greater artistic statement than what was found on ADTOE, which I feel was more or less reassurance to the fans.
I love everything on Train of Thought. It's the last DT album where this is the case. I like that it's one dimensional, it sounds focused and they nailed the metal thing. Something that I feel hasn't been their strong point in recent years. The extended instrumental sections used to put me off but lately I've come to appreciate them more. There is some really cool stuff and Petrucci just fucking shreds all over it. And the brutal parts are killer.
Yea you really shouldn't.
I was so disappointed by that song.* Cool idea, lyrical theme that has the possibility to not be a total cheese fest. Yet they ruined it with the most needless instrumental section in DT's history, stupid lyrics, in a 15 minute monster track that doesn't go anywhere. I like the outro though..*Watched the SC DVD before actually listening to the album. Have to say the DVD makes the album a hell of a lot more appealing than it really is.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
I had no idea there was such a thing. I'm familiar with Illuminationism and that Augustine was a supporter of it but I had no idea there was a "theory" involved. It'll be religious lyrics then, oh snap. I still expect cheesy lyrics, seeing the lyrics to The Spirit Carries On, this time.
Well Wait for Sleep is not a post 2000 song, so that has nothing to do with my point. Kevin Moore based ballads are all fantastic. I find Disappear to be nothing special and Vacant to be dull.
That was to your "Stop the "taking a breath before the explosion" nonsense" point. Wait For Sleep does that.
The Theory Of Illumination thing is cool, I'm interested to see what they do with it. Though I'm a bit worried that JP will get to literal with it again, but whatever, I don't pay much attention to lyrics for the really long songs.
The Theory Of Illumination thing is cool, I'm interested to see what they do with it. Though I'm a bit worried that JP will get to literal with it again, but whatever, I don't pay much attention to lyrics for the really long songs.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
That point was only about this current era, not past. That concept isn't something I'm flatly opposed to. I don't think they're capable of doing that now, so there you go.
425
Starblind
The simplicity is obviously intentional in light of the fact that the album is self-titled. It may be a little out of place among Dream Theater album covers but no more so than Falling Into Infinity for using a different font or Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence for being a more simplistic design. I, for one, like the concept of the album cover. I do think the execution is somewhat poor (which is why it would not surprise me if it was done by Hugh Syme, he of the stock photos and geometrically nonsensical Newton's Cradles) due to the randomly different Majesty symbol and (I'm putting the other mistake in spoilers because you cannot unsee it once you see it. View at your own risk.)
I've generally seen reception of ADTOE to be wildly varied. I'm sure I'll like it, I think the question is whether I'll be one of those who thinks it is middle-of-the-road for DT or one of those who considers it one of their best.
Yeah, I get that and agree with things like Petrucci's performance and the execution of the metal aspect. I just think that the focus is in a direction that I've been somewhat less into lately, and honestly, focus is not the reason I go to Dream Theater, it's diversity. Which is why Octavarium is the last album where I love everything.
I think the lyrical theme was pretty well executed both on the part of JP's writing and JLB's singing. I do agree that the instrumental section is a bit jarring initially, but I think it's worth it by giving the "Wanting to deserve a place..." verse an impact that I don't think it could have had without the instrumental section.
Horizontal line on the left side where the picture of the Earth just cuts off into black
I've generally seen reception of ADTOE to be wildly varied. I'm sure I'll like it, I think the question is whether I'll be one of those who thinks it is middle-of-the-road for DT or one of those who considers it one of their best.
Yeah, I get that and agree with things like Petrucci's performance and the execution of the metal aspect. I just think that the focus is in a direction that I've been somewhat less into lately, and honestly, focus is not the reason I go to Dream Theater, it's diversity. Which is why Octavarium is the last album where I love everything.
Yea you really shouldn't.
I think the lyrical theme was pretty well executed both on the part of JP's writing and JLB's singing. I do agree that the instrumental section is a bit jarring initially, but I think it's worth it by giving the "Wanting to deserve a place..." verse an impact that I don't think it could have had without the instrumental section.
Meh, it doesn't bother me. Maybe it will when the CD comes out but for now I'm able to ignore it. It's like the disproportionate ball on Octavarium. I think that's a cool cover, the ball doesn't bug me. That said, I think the cover would've been better without the planet. Just the majesty logo would've worked. Either way, there are worse covers out there, people are being too nitpicky imo.
That makes sense. Octavarium is actually not far behind ToT. On a good day, I might even prefer it. As an entire experience, it's definitely the best one. It's hard to compare the two though, I like them for different reasons. If I'm not in a Metal mood, I'm obviously not going to go for ToT.
Can't say I agree there. The singing is okay but the Alexander the Great-esque lyrics are pretty generic. The only thing the instrumental section does for me is ruin the rest of the song, which wasn't that great to begin with.[/quote]
Well of course there's a theory involved. I think JP is capable of writing religious lyrics that aren't terribly cheesy. Voices and Lines In The Sand both have great lyrics and are filled with religious imagery. For a later example, Bridges in the Sky has pretty good lyrics that, if not taken literally, have a nice theme. Either way, I expect this to have a similar message to Breaking All Illusions, which was about the pursuit of truth. Who knows, maybe Myung had a hand in one of the movements.I had no idea there was such a thing. I'm familiar with Illuminationism and that Augustine was a supporter of it but I had no idea there was a "theory" involved. It'll be religious lyrics then, oh snap. I still expect cheesy lyrics, seeing the lyrics to The Spirit Carries On, this time.