Bruce's voice straining

[Stan]

This is an interesting discussion. Is there a way to practice good vocal support on your own?

And just to clarify something - falsetto is what Steven Tyler uses a lot, right? If it is, I find it hard to compare it to the way Brucie screams on Wratchild and NotB today. But that's just 'cos I'm utterly stupid when it comes to the art of singing. Maybe someone can clarify?

I'm not sure about Tyler, as I don't really listen to him.

As far as vocal support goes, ...it's a bit hard to explain. But imagine you're taking a shit... you feel the gut, the muscle underneath your belly tighten... when you sing, you want to maintain that feeling, that tightness. BUT you are NOT sticking your stomach out or sticking it in because that is related to grunting, and your throat will be closed up. You want an open and relaxed throat. So, as you sing, push DOWN. Imagine you're taking a dump, just PUSH DOWN as you sing... but don't push too hard. This is not brute force. Just maintain a slight downwards pressure, and when you need to sing louder, with grit, or a high notes, push down a little bit more. You're basically balancing the energy from the pushing when you do this. As you're maintaining the downwards push, you should feel your lower back "tighten" a bit, and also feel vibrations coming from your palate.

I hope I explained this well. It may be a little complicated to understand.

 

[pilau]

As you're maintaining the downwards push, you should feel your lower back "tighten" a bit, and also feel vibrations coming from your palate.

I hope I explained this well. It may be a little complicated to understand.

I sometimes get it too when I try to sing hard, or when I am starting to run out of air and I am pushing hard to maintain a long note, so I think I understand what kind of pain you are talking about

 

[wsoul1]

This is an interesting discussion. Is there a way to practice good vocal support on your own?

And just to clarify something - falsetto is what Steven Tyler uses a lot, right? If it is, I find it hard to compare it to the way Brucie screams on Wratchild and NotB today. But that's just 'cos I'm utterly stupid when it comes to the art of singing. Maybe someone can clarify?

A classic example of a singer who uses a lot of falsetto is Halford. As far as practicing on your own is singing scales, here a great online vocalist site with tons of info and excercises  http://www.vocalist.org.uk/exercises.html

 

[chaosapiant]

My wife is a fairly recent Maiden convert.  One of the things she has pointed out to me is how much more she prefers Bruce's voice nowadays to the 80s stuff.  She says it sounds much thicker and more powerful.  Naturaly I agree with her.  Thanks to some very informative posts on this thread, I now have a greater understanding how the aging process works on vocal cords.  It never occured to me that Bruce's vocal cords have gotten thicker.  He's lost a few of his highest notes, and only does the falsetto screaming live when doing old songs, but for a 52 year old man to run around the stage like a hyper 3 year old, and literally belt out songs without missing a beat, sustaining ridiculously long notes, and hitting almost all if not all of his classic high notes, that man is absolutely incredible.

 

[TFF 01]

Bruce's voice is amazing and his vocal work on the new album is great.  Iron Maiden keeps getting better...I really hope they make another album.  And I'm sure Bruce will make more solo albums eventually, too.

 

[Twarkle]

Bruce's voice is amazing and his vocal work on the new album is great.  Iron Maiden keeps getting better...I really hope they make another album.  And I'm sure Bruce will make more solo albums eventually, too.

Yax and Stan thanks for answering all the questions, and giving so much insight.  It's much appreciated.

 

[Robbiedbee]

Big thanks to Stan and Yax. This is a really interesting topic, cheers guys.

Also, Cap Maronis is right. I thought Bruce was stunning when I saw him at Sonisphere, best I've heard him since 2000.

 

[chaosapiant]

It's neat to listen to old live albums like "Live After Death" then see/hear him live now.  I think he sounds much better!

 

[Twarkle]

It's neat to listen to old live albums like "Live After Death" then see/hear him live now.  I think he sounds much better!

Overall he does, but if you are listening to the LP version of Live After Death or the 2 disc remaster versions that have all the songs (the original CD didn't have the full album), his vocals on the 5 songs recorded at Hammersmith sound much better than the ones recorded 6 months and 89 shows later at Long Beach.  

 

[chaosapiant]

That's true too; I used to have the 100 minute cassette of the full package.  But still, his control is much better now, and he sounds overall much more powerful.

 

[Twarkle]

That's true too; I used to have the 100 minute cassette of the full package.  But still, his control is much better now, and he sounds overall much more powerful.

Oh I agree fully with that.  He's a much better overall singer now.  What he has lost is overshadowed by what he has gained, no doubt about it.

 

[chaosapiant]

I really think he's only lost the top most portion of his voice, but it's also hard to tell.  Perhaps if Shirley produced him in the 80's, his high end would be much more similar to the way it sounds now.

 

[Twarkle]

I really think he's only lost the top most portion of his voice, but it's also hard to tell.  Perhaps if Shirley produced him in the 80's, his high end would be much more similar to the way it sounds now.

It's natural that males lose the high end of their range at this age, happens to trained Opera and Jazz vocalists as well.  One of things that's really different now is the way he records vocals.  I believe he said TFF vocals were done in 8 hours, with one song being almost entirely one take.  That's obviously the style the band likes, and I like the results a lot, but that is really uncommon.  You hear Bruce tell stories of how Martin Birch would make him sing the same line over and over and over for hours until he got it just the way Birch wanted.  But obviously the band likes the live vibe in the studio, and I think they probably prefer that Bruce sings on the album in a way that can be recreated live, which wouldn't be the case if they spent 3 weeks on the vocals capturing only those one out of a hundred moments.

I think he sounds fantastic on TFF, and of the 3 very small complaints I have with the album, the vocals are not one of them.

 

[Brucie]

If you heard the new song, Talisman, in the chorus Bruce hits the highest note I've heard him sing since the reunion! Is he straining? No! His voice is just thicker.

He nails incredible D5's in the Talisman chorus.

 

[chaosapiant]

The thing that gets me now isn't his astounding high range, it's his power.  Halford and Tate also have great ranges, but neither have the sheer force of Bruce's voice.  It feels like if he sang directly in front of you, his voice would knock you on your ass, and I love that.  Not to mention the amount of nuance and emotion he can emit when hitting those ridiculous notes.  There is simply no one else i've ever heard that has Bruce's rare combination of talent and power.

 

[Dr. Eddies Wingman]

The thing that gets me now isn't his astounding high range, it's his power.  Halford and Tate also have great ranges, but neither have the sheer force of Bruce's voice.  It feels like if he sang directly in front of you, his voice would knock you on your ass, and I love that.   Not to mention the amount of nuance and emotion he can emit when hitting those ridiculous notes.  There is simply no one else i've ever heard that has Bruce's rare combination of talent and power.

I'd say Halford definitely had that power back in the old days, but on the albums from the 70s he was let down by the production. His voice sounds thin on several of those albums, but listen to live recordings from that same era. Shitloads of power.

I agree more on your other point - Bruce's small nuances and touches to his sound always seem to add to the lyrics to set the mood of the songs. It's almost like he is an actor, a storyteller and a singer at the same time.

 

[stjerky]

I think Bruces high register sounds thick because he is always a bit flat (out of tune), which can be a good effect at best. Halford, Kiske and likes sound thinner. What is common to Halford and Bruce is that they both sound awesome when singing in low register. I think WTWWB song from the new album is great partly because Bruce doesn't stays in lower register. Mother of Mercy chorus sounds pretty awful to me because it sounds strained (whther it is or is not strained).

 

[Twarkle]

I think Bruces high register sounds thick because he is always a bit flat (out of tune), which can be a good effect at best. Halford, Kiske and likes sound thinner. What is common to Halford and Bruce is that they both sound awesome when singing in low register. I think WTWWB song from the new album is great partly because Bruce doesn't stays in lower register. Mother of Mercy chorus sounds pretty awful to me because it sounds strained (whther it is or is not strained).

Where exactly is Bruce flat on the album?  Edit 1:  Way too dick headish and pompous sounding.  Wasn't meant to be, but it came out that way, just a bit pissy this morning.

Edit 2: Example has been given, thanks Forostar.  Duly noted.

 

[Forostar]

To me his stuff in The Talisman sounds out of tune (or strained or flat or whatever -> it doesn't feel well).
I'm not going to answer all your questions, but these are the moments.

Riding the waves and the
storm is upon us.
The winds lash the sails but
The ropes keep them tight.
Off in the distance a
Dark cloud approaching.
None could imagine what
There Was to come.

....

As we ride the rough seas,
As we soak from the ocean waves,
I just hope for all our lives
And pray that I survive.

Four ships are lost in the
Stormy conditions.
The spirits of the sunken crews,
Their phantoms follow us.

......

Four leagues and ten and we
Hit storms again.
We just can't get away from
The eye of the storm.

The birds outsoar the raging storm
But we cannot escape it.
Abandoned earth that we now crave
Is manyleagues from safe.

.....

 

[chaosapiant]

I think the above examples sound more emphatic than flat, but i'm not a singer, so what do I know.  I DO know that the true chorus in Talisman is a crowning Bruce moment, and the point in the album where I said to myself "self, fuck me, he hasn't lost a thing!"