Bruce Dickinson on BBC Radio 4 "Any Questions" (2nd November)

CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I agree with most of what Brigs says. Just a few comments...


Not sure who this was a response to, but agreed. For anyone unfamiliar with secondary care in the UK: you still wouldn't choose to get an operation done privately if it involved a medium-to-long stay in hospital. If you knew the facts that is...
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Whilst I would never choose private health care over NHS, my personal experience of NHS care is that it was dreadful to the point of non existent. If I did not have the funds to go private when I needed treatment (with zero health insurance btw) I would probably have lost my job by now.

Having had a major back injury (literally taking me 30 minutes to stand up out of bed, before getting dressed, due to unimaginably painful back spasms from 2 slipped discs) I was told the waiting list for an MRI was 3 months just for a diagnosis. I paid for my own MRI (£250) as I could not work. The results were labelled as "Red Flag" meaning urgent. I took my results to the GP (having to walk a mile as I could not get in a car) and was informed it was another 3 month waiting list for treatment. My body could not handle the morphine based painkillers I was prescribed due to side effects (listed in the side effects info as "stop taking immediately and consult your doctor")

With no other choice I went private and had to hire the surgical theatre to have a spinal injection (£1,000) plus two consultations with a specialist (before and after, £250 each) which enabled me to stand within 24hrs. I had to have private Chiropractic sessions £32.50 a go, three times a week for 6 months. I am now still having 1 session every three weeks, 20 months later.

I was prescribed Physiotherapy on the NHS. Six months later (!) the appointment letter arrived. I had to phone within 7 days to arrange a time. I phoned for 7 days solid and could not get through. I was then off the waiting list.

My experience of NHS is a bad joke, although I agree with the ideology.

I think others will think it's great until they actually need it, although I hope mine is an isolated case. I have a bitter taste after having paid into the NHS for 30+ years and then only receiving a GP appointment informing me of the waiting times. Private care has cost me thousands although I have paid thousands into the NHS.

Sorry, but that's my story.
 
Welsh Phantom said:
Whilst I would never choose private health care over NHS, my personal experience of NHS care is that it was dreadful to the point of non existent. If I did not have the funds to go private when I needed treatment (with zero health insurance btw) I would probably have lost my job by now.

Having had a major back injury (literally taking me 30 minutes to stand up out of bed, before getting dressed, due to unimaginably painful back spasms from 2 slipped discs) I was told the waiting list for an MRI was 3 months just for a diagnosis. I paid for my own MRI (£250) as I could not work. The results were labelled as "Red Flag" meaning urgent. I took my results to the GP (having to walk a mile as I could not get in a car) and was informed it was another 3 month waiting list for treatment. My body could not handle the morphine based painkillers I was prescribed due to side effects (listed in the side effects info as "stop taking immediately and consult your doctor")

With no other choice I went private and had to hire the surgical theatre to have a spinal injection (£1,000) plus two consultations with a specialist (before and after, £250 each) which enabled me to stand within 24hrs. I had to have private Chiropractic sessions £32.50 a go, three times a week for 6 months. I am now still having 1 session every three weeks, 20 months later.

I was prescribed Physiotherapy on the NHS. Six months later (!) the appointment letter arrived. I had to phone within 7 days to arrange a time. I phoned for 7 days solid and could not get through. I was then off the waiting list.

My experience of NHS is a bad joke, although I agree with the ideology.

I think others will think it's great until they actually need it, although I hope mine is an isolated case. I have a bitter taste after having paid into the NHS for 30+ years and then only receiving a GP appointment informing me of the waiting times. Private care has cost me thousands although I have paid thousands into the NHS.

Sorry, but that's my story.
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I specifically said operation; and I meant that, specifically. The NHS, when it gets round to actually carrying out the work, still outperforms private providers in things like hospital acquired infection rates, etc. I wasn't sugar-coating the current state of primary & secondary care. If you have (or have not!) the money to bypass waiting lists & other barriers then obviously you'll have better health outcomes vs. waiting on the NHS. No argument from me in that respect. That said, primary care (particularly in England) is absolutely on its knees. And the NHS has been running on the goodwill of it's vast employee base for quite a while now. It's very hard to see things changing unless the funding model for the NHS is reformed. Making it an all-party long-term based model would be a start.
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I specifically said operation; and I meant that, specifically. The NHS, when it gets round to actually carrying out the work, still outperforms private providers in things like hospital acquired infection rates, etc. I wasn't sugar-coating the current state of primary & secondary care. If you have (or have not!) the money to bypass waiting lists & other barriers then obviously you'll have better health outcomes vs. waiting on the NHS. No argument from me in that respect. That said, primary care (particularly in England) is absolutely on its knees. And the NHS has been running on the goodwill of it's vast employee base for quite a while now. It's very hard to see things changing unless the funding model for the NHS is reformed. Making it an all-party long-term model would be a start.
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It's still sad that when you need care that you have paid for (and is available privately .... so it IS available) the NHS did not deliver.
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
I specifically said operation; and I meant that, specifically. The NHS, when it gets round to actually carrying out the work, still outperforms private providers in things like hospital acquired infection rates, etc. I wasn't sugar-coating the current state of primary & secondary care. If you have (or have not!) the money to bypass waiting lists & other barriers then obviously you'll have better health outcomes vs. waiting on the NHS. No argument from me in that respect. That said, primary care (particularly in England) is absolutely on its knees. And the NHS has been running on the goodwill of it's vast employee base for quite a while now. It's very hard to see things changing unless the funding model for the NHS is reformed. Making it an all-party long-term based model would be a start.
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Also, hiring an operating theatre for a specialist medical procedure IS an operation (in my book) . It took 30 minutes with X-ray machines etc to have my spine injected.
 
This is a bit like saying, how come Yodel can do such-and-such & RM can't. The NHS (like Royal Mail) is bearing the weight of the entire health of the nation; all of it. It doesn't pick & choose like private providers do; it doesn't set up GP apps that old techphobic pensioners can't use; it doesn't withdraw services from rural areas; it doesn't avoid non-profitable "difficult" patients groups, etc etc. The NHS isn't perfect, but it's a service; and it's kind of shit at times because the funding it receives does not meet expenditure requirements. The private sector can simply cherry-pick the most profitable areas. It's an old, well-worn argument but it's so true.
Welsh Phantom said:
Also, hiring an operating theatre for a specialist medical procedure IS an operation (in my book) . It took 30 minutes with X-ray machines etc to have my spine injected.
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No offense, but these are routine things your describing. If I was going to be cut open & in rehabilitation for several months I wouldn't do it privately; that's all I was actually saying, originally. I basically agree with everything else you say; the criticism is fair. Your rosey view of private health care doesn't, to me, ring true though. You personally might "win" by paying (in this instance); but someone, somewhere (if this is all that was available) is loosing.
 
CriedWhenBrucieLeft said:
This is a bit like saying, how come Yodel can do such-and-such & RM can't. The NHS (like Royal Mail) is bearing the weight of the entire health of the nation; all of it. It doesn't pick & choose like private providers do; it doesn't set up GP apps that old techphobic pensioners can't use; it doesn't withdraw services from rural areas; it doesn't avoid non-profitable "difficult" patients groups, etc etc. The NHS isn't perfect, but it's a service; and it's kind of shit at times because the funding it receives does not meet expenditure requirements. The private sector can simply cherry-pick the most profitable areas. It's an old, well-worn argument but it's so true.

No offense, but these are routine things your describing. If I was going to be cut open & in rehabilitation for several months I wouldn't do it privately; that's all I was actually saying, originally. I basically agree with everything else you say; the criticism is fair. Your rosey view of private health care doesn't, to me, ring true though. You personally might "win" by paying (in this instance); but someone, somewhere (if this is all that was available) is loosing.
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Please don't think I have a Rosey view of private health care. The surgeon who operated on me only worked privately on Fridays, the rest of the week on NHS. Saying I had a routine procedure is nonsense though . It is not routine for me to come out of a theatre in a wheel chair and be in "rehab" for several months .... no more or less than a heart surgeon working on hearts on a daily basis (although clearly that is more life threatening). No offense taken, but I think you underestimate how life changing certain injuries can be until treatment.

And I agree with your points on the NHS. I don't want it to go. I want it funded appropriately ;)

But if Bruce had not gone private ... who knows?
 
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srfc said:
Also, liberalism is a right wing position to begin with.
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Yesterday's liberal is today's conservative. Used to be, the belief in individual rights & limited government were pretty radical positions. (Those crazy hippies like Washington, Locke, Bastiat & Jefferson...) Today, the expansion of government control & increased regulations over personal & economic activity is more associated with the Left than the Right. Sometimes the political spectrum is a circle, and if ya travel to far in one direction, you end up on the other side of the world.

Still, seems to me that most political disputes nowadays are over where to place the various safety nets & certain restrictions. On the left & right -- in the USA & most democratic nations -- the overwhelming majority of people believe in free speech, freedom of religion, legal immigration, the right to own property, the right to defend yourself, and the right to pursue economic activities... with certain limitations. What we disagree about are the limitations.

So, we bash & demonize the fuck outa each other, 'cause we disagree over the limitations. That's progress, I guess.

Hooray?
 
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