Black Sabbath

The melodies, strong chorusses, the guitar solos, the vocal lines and the atmosphere (in which the keyboards play a large role) are the major strengths of the Tony Martin era, something which imo can not be said of many Sabbath/w Dio-songs which lean more on the (at times repetitive) riffing alone (of course the Dio vocals are great but so are Martin's..)

A good guitar riff of e.g. this new Heaven and Hell song ain't bad, but I simply can find more good things in a song like Headless Cross, The Shining, Glory Ride, The Hand That Rocks The Cradle or Nightwing (just to name a few: I could go on for a long while). And the songs naturally do not have the same tempo, so that's not a problem either.
 
I've read some authoratitive and passionate comments in this particular thread concerning Black Sabbath.

As some of you may know I'm a bit of an old fart, and quite possibly the oldest(in age)contributor to this forum, so I may be biased,but as far as I'm concerned Black Sabbath died on the release of Technical Ecstacy.Gone were the monstrous fat sloppy riffs,no more Symptom of the Universe, Supernaut, Into the Void, Cornucopia etc.You could also argue that the original line up inspired countless other bands, which the Dio, Martin, Gillan, eras did not.

It is personal opinion I know,but the Martin era leaves me a little cold,although I must admit I haven't heard much from this period as I became bored with it.

Don't get me wrong I like Dio, and recently travelled to Scotland starting off with the Heaven and Hell Live album blasting from the ipod, and I have a copy of Born Again where I think Gillan puts in an amazing performance, but Black Sabbath it aint.
 
Kopfanatic said:
I've read some authoratitive and passionate comments in this particular thread concerning Black Sabbath.

As some of you may know I'm a bit of an old fart, and quite possibly the oldest(in age)contributor to this forum, so I may be biased,but as far as I'm concerned Black Sabbath died on the release of Technical Ecstacy.
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No prob mate. For some people Iron Maiden died on the releases of Somewhere in Time & Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. For others these albums were exactly the points of no return, the start of the band they adore.
 
So... I just returned from the Heaven and Hell (which to me is Black Sabbath) gig at Spandauer Zitadelle. It was mind blowing. Seriously, I can't find earthly words for it. For now, let's just rest with the setlist:

Intro: E5150
The Mob Rules
Children of the Sea
I
Bible Black
Time Machine
Fear
Falling Off the Edge of the World
Follow the Tears
Die Young
Heaven and Hell
Country Girl (Intro & first verse)
Neon Knights

It was absolutely perfect.
 
I'm just finishing listening to the new album for the first time. First time around it sounds OK, but not as good as the first two Dio albums - hopefully it's a grower. So far, maybe Bible Black and Neverwhere sound best.
 
I didn't like it awfully much the first time, but it has turned out to be a grower indeed.
 
I agree with Perun -- it took about 3 or 4 listens, but now I absolutely love it.  The first three tracks are among my favorite Sabbath songs ever.  I have tickets to see the LA show in August, and I can't wait.  Assuming the setlist doesn't change from Perun's show in Germany, I am very glad to see they are playing
"Country Girl," "I" and "Falling Off the Edge of the World"
. 
 
Just saw Heaven and Hell in L.A. last night.  Fabulous show (albeit a bit short, less than 90 minutes -- but hey, they're in their 60's, so that's fine).  Same setlist as Perun described above.  Played at the Greek Theatre, which is the best open-air venue in SoCal -- beautiful setting, small (5,000 seats) and intimate.  Apart from having Iommi's guitar mixed too low during the opening number, about which he was visibly peeved, they sounded perfect.  Ours was the third or fourth show of their North American tour, so if they come to (or near) your town, run, don't walk, to buy tickets.  Awesome. 

Coheed & Cambria opened, and I didn't hate them.  Their best songs were a cover of The Trooper and the penultimate song of their set (I don't know any song names).  They have Cousin Itt as their frontman, which I enjoyed. 
 
Legal news:  Earlier this week Judge Koeltl in the U.S. District Court in New York, NY denied Tony Iommi's motion to dismiss Ozzy Osbourne's lawsuit over the rights to the name Black Sabbath.  Ozzy is suing for an order declaring that he has an equal right to the name with Iommi, and that Iommi's U.S. trademark registration of the name "Black Sabbath" -- in which Iommi claims to be the sole owner of the mark -- is invalid. 

I tried to attach Ozzy's complaint, as well as the agreement in which Ozzy signed over to Iommi the rights to the Black Sabbath name, but they exceed the maximum attachment size of 128 KB.  If you are interested, send me a PM and I'll email them to you. 

I think we can all agree, Tony Iommi IS Black Sabbath.  Anyone want to make money as an expert witness??  [Not an actual solicitation, btw -- my firm isn't involved.  Still, I'm debating whether to call Iommi's lawyer and see if he could use assistance.] 
 
cornfedhick said:
and that Iommi's U.S. trademark registration of the name "Black Sabbath" -- in which Iommi claims to be the sole owner of the mark -- is invalid.
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I wonder why it is invalid. What's the difference with the past, when we had previous line-ups without Ozzy?
Why was there no problem with the name in 1980 (Dio), 1983 (Gillan), 1986 (Hughes), 1987 (Martin), 1992 (Dio), 1994 (Martin)....
 
LooseCannon said:
You just want to meet Iommi.
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Somewhat true, though I've sort of outgrown the meeting celebrities thing -- not that big a deal when you live in L.A., since they're everywhere.  Primarily, the case is interesting to me, and my sense is that Ozzy is being piggish.

Forostar said:
I wonder why it is invalid. What's the difference with the past, when we had previous line-ups without Ozzy?
Why was there no problem with the name in 1980 (Dio), 1983 (Gillan), 1986 (Hughes), 1987 (Martin), 1992 (Dio), 1994 (Martin)....
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Ozzy's argument is that Iommi lied on his 2000 trademark application when he said he was the sole owner of the mark.  Iommi's basis for this statement seems reasonable at first blush:  Ozzy signed a contract in 1980 when he left the band agreeing that he had no further rights to use the name Black Sabbath.  However, Ozzy alleges that, since the band's reunion tour in 1997, he regained rights to the name and has been helping to manage the Black Sabbath brand.  Ozzy seems to be arguing that this arrangement trumps the 1980 agreement, and that Iommi misleadingly failed to acknowledge this arrangement in the 2000 TM application. 
 
I was, of course, just joshing.

The case details do sound interesting. Good to know that even though Black Sabbath have played some shows together that Tony and Ozzy still love each other so much.
 
Favorite with Ozzy: Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
Favorite with Dio: Heaven And Hell
Favorite with Martin: Headless Cross

I've listened to Born Again several times but it just doesn't speak to me like the other albums do.
 
I have some bootlegs with Ray Gillen singing with Sabbath, I have heard the demos Gillen did with Sabbath in 1986 (now available on a new edition of The Eternal Idol), but I had never seen any footage of Sabbath performing with Ray Gillen. Until today (a bit late because it was uploaded a millennium ago). The quality of the vid isn't that good, but what a voice (and one of Iommi's best riffs)!

Black Sabbath - Danger Zone (live in Montreal w/Ray Gillen)
 
Forostar said:
I met a lot of people who only like the Ozzy, or only like the Dio period. The Tony Martin era seems to be a bit underrated, simply because not many people talk about it. "The Headless Cross" album is so excellent, that I find it way more important than most Ozzy's stuff. I guess the Tony Martin period is even my favourite period.

Perun gave a good advice, to check ALL albums because it's worth to give it a chance.
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Finally someone agrees with me.  I love the Martin cds!!  Tyr is also excellent!!
 
I like all the eras equally, though if I had to I would say Ozzy>Martin>Dio just because of the amount of albums each singer released. Ozzy definitely has the most good songs IMO :)
 
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