Deus_Adrian
Prince of the Final Frontier
Holy crap are these actual songs left off or just a crack pipe dream?
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Made them up with some subjects Bruce likes mixed in it (Lighthouse/Van der Graaff/Quatermass). Man of Sorrows is really from 1992. The demo.
Nice to know it looked somewhat realistic.
Randalf
Ancient Mariner
I'm with you on this one. The sound on that album is far from being perfect and I'm not saying I wouldn't do any minor or major tweaks if I had the change, but the sound definitely fits the mood of the album very well. Similar approach than with FOTD for example would have indeed killed some of it. Again, I'm not saying it's technically strong piece of production, but the overall sound and the feel and colour or whatever of it really fits the record and material very well.
The only major changes I'd make would perhaps be to fix the production of DoD and TFF could have turned out a lot better too, so it's pretty much those two I'd meddle with.
Cornfed Hick
Ancient Mariner
I am too lazy and uninterested to try to think of ways to rearrange preexisting albums. But if I were the producer of the next album I would ask them to come up with just 10 songs of an average 4 minutes in length = 40 minutes total, +/- 2 minutes. If they want a 6+ minute "epic," fine, just make a few other songs a little shorter. If they could discipline themselves to do that, I think they are capable of creating a true masterpiece. It's doable. The original "Iron Maiden" song is only 3.5 minutes long.
stjerky
Educated Fool
YES!
Eddieson
Educated Fool
Agree. Just listening to Blaze doing Lighning a semitone down and it already sounds much cleaner (granted this is 20 years later sure)
Interestingly, I think Brave New World is the last album that actually have well done vocal harmonies. Listen to Fallen Angel or The Wicker Man, they do sound planned and mixed in well. But yes, after that they are done far to sloppy, and the obsession of making everything live and so unneccesary. Harmonies on River Runs Depp or Death Or Glory sound like demos.
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
Thank you for explaining it much better than I was able to.
Yeah, DOD could use some work. TFF isn’t as bad, I think, as most say it is.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
It worked out great for NPFTD so no reason why it couldn't again.
The Flash
Dennis Wilcock did 9/11
The rhythm guitar is non-existent. It doesn't ruin the record, but definitely takes away from its potential.
JudasMyGuide
Ancient Mariner
Okay, let's imagine for a while that I'm the producer and (possibly via shady means like locking them all up and depraving them of food the Beefheart way) I have absolute control over the band, in order to make a great album:
- First everyone who wants a credit should write some song by himself beforehand - try to have at least two or three songs written even if you don't want a credit; it can hardly hurt to practice in that regard. At least don't write in the studio.
- No "internal influences" - okay, one song might get an 'Arry co-write and have acoustic intro/outro, but not more.
- About only a third of the songs is gonna be recorded, so if we aimed for an album with, say, 10 songs, about 30 must be written to choose from, to get at least some form of quality control.
- Encouragement of shorter songs, but very carefully - no pro-forma shite like Gates of Tomorrow or Death or Glory, more like Rainmaker.
- Quality control of the lyrics - not being afraid to tell them to do better.
- If Bruce wants to write lyrics, oh, by all means yes, if he's willing to provide at least Powerslave-like quality, not otherwise.
- Encouragement of experimental tracks (like Isle of Avalon or the Legacy) but again - only using those if they're really good. Not being afraid of acoustic guitars or pianos or Hammonds... if it worked with the song. More cowbell (
)
- Even as a prog fan - some serious trimming down - if they want to write a (pseudo-)"prog epic", then a prog epic it must be, not just endless repeats and bloated running time.
- Encouragement of the Amigos to write the best riffs they can come up with, possibly increasing the presence of guitars in general.
- Everything that is written and chosen for recording will be then thoroughly rehearsed, for a month at least, so they could play it in their sleep. Couldn't hurt to force them to rehearse meticulously even the older stuff and possibly some covers as well, just to really get into it.
- Keeping some of the outtakes as B-Sides. Also, some Lizzy covers, possibly?
- Keeping 'Arry as far from the producing and mixing as possible.
- Leaving the mixing to someone who knows what he's doing and solemnly swears to have no brickwalling, no clipping and a good dynamic range. Not for the audiophiles, but just for the albums to be listenable. No Californication or What's the Story Morning Glory.
In my book the album ripest for remixing or some serious work done is DoD. It's actually a pretty good album, but the sound quality is horrendous. When I'm listening to it in me earphones, my ears virtually bleed.
The album ripest for re-recording altogether would be TFF - not the rest, but re-recording Bruce's vocals would make the album three times as good, take my word for it.
- First everyone who wants a credit should write some song by himself beforehand - try to have at least two or three songs written even if you don't want a credit; it can hardly hurt to practice in that regard. At least don't write in the studio.
- No "internal influences" - okay, one song might get an 'Arry co-write and have acoustic intro/outro, but not more.
- About only a third of the songs is gonna be recorded, so if we aimed for an album with, say, 10 songs, about 30 must be written to choose from, to get at least some form of quality control.
- Encouragement of shorter songs, but very carefully - no pro-forma shite like Gates of Tomorrow or Death or Glory, more like Rainmaker.
- Quality control of the lyrics - not being afraid to tell them to do better.
- If Bruce wants to write lyrics, oh, by all means yes, if he's willing to provide at least Powerslave-like quality, not otherwise.
- Encouragement of experimental tracks (like Isle of Avalon or the Legacy) but again - only using those if they're really good. Not being afraid of acoustic guitars or pianos or Hammonds... if it worked with the song. More cowbell (
)- Even as a prog fan - some serious trimming down - if they want to write a (pseudo-)"prog epic", then a prog epic it must be, not just endless repeats and bloated running time.
- Encouragement of the Amigos to write the best riffs they can come up with, possibly increasing the presence of guitars in general.
- Everything that is written and chosen for recording will be then thoroughly rehearsed, for a month at least, so they could play it in their sleep. Couldn't hurt to force them to rehearse meticulously even the older stuff and possibly some covers as well, just to really get into it.
- Keeping some of the outtakes as B-Sides. Also, some Lizzy covers, possibly?
- Keeping 'Arry as far from the producing and mixing as possible.
- Leaving the mixing to someone who knows what he's doing and solemnly swears to have no brickwalling, no clipping and a good dynamic range. Not for the audiophiles, but just for the albums to be listenable. No Californication or What's the Story Morning Glory.
In my book the album ripest for remixing or some serious work done is DoD. It's actually a pretty good album, but the sound quality is horrendous. When I'm listening to it in me earphones, my ears virtually bleed.
The album ripest for re-recording altogether would be TFF - not the rest, but re-recording Bruce's vocals would make the album three times as good, take my word for it.
Edington
Last Son of The Miracle
That's not a nice thing to call Steve.
Iron Lurker
Ancient Mariner
I wish Martin Birch never retired...
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I would tell Steve that his ideas on "live sound" and "live recording" and "live mixing that sounds great in his bloody car" are not needed in my studio. Then I would tell the band they will be tracking all the instruments and vocals properly so that I could mix the damn thing similarly to Brave New World. I would do this for the previous 4 reunion albums as well as The X Factor and Virtual XI.
Eddieson
Educated Fool
Okay, let's imagine for a while that I'm the producer and (possibly via shady means like locking them all up and depraving them of food the Beefheart way) I have absolute control over the band, in order to make a great album:
- First everyone who wants a credit should write some song by himself beforehand - try to have at least two or three songs written even if you don't want a credit; it can hardly hurt to practice in that regard. At least don't write in the studio.
- No "internal influences" - okay, one song might get an 'Arry co-write and have acoustic intro/outro, but not more.
- About only a third of the songs is gonna be recorded, so if we aimed for an album with, say, 10 songs, about 30 must be written to choose from, to get at least some form of quality control.
- Encouragement of shorter songs, but very carefully - no pro-forma shite like Gates of Tomorrow or Death or Glory, more like Rainmaker.
- Quality control of the lyrics - not being afraid to tell them to do better.
- If Bruce wants to write lyrics, oh, by all means yes, if he's willing to provide at least Powerslave-like quality, not otherwise.
- Encouragement of experimental tracks (like Isle of Avalon or the Legacy) but again - only using those if they're really good. Not being afraid of acoustic guitars or pianos or Hammonds... if it worked with the song. More cowbell (
- Even as a prog fan - some serious trimming down - if they want to write a (pseudo-)"prog epic", then a prog epic it must be, not just endless repeats and bloated running time.
- Encouragement of the Amigos to write the best riffs they can come up with, possibly increasing the presence of guitars in general.
- Everything that is written and chosen for recording will be then thoroughly rehearsed, for a month at least, so they could play it in their sleep. Couldn't hurt to force them to rehearse meticulously even the older stuff and possibly some covers as well, just to really get into it.
- Keeping some of the outtakes as B-Sides. Also, some Lizzy covers, possibly?
- Keeping 'Arry as far from the producing and mixing as possible.
- Leaving the mixing to someone who knows what he's doing and solemnly swears to have no brickwalling, no clipping and a good dynamic range. Not for the audiophiles, but just for the albums to be listenable. No Californication or What's the Story Morning Glory.
In my book the album ripest for remixing or some serious work done is DoD. It's actually a pretty good album, but the sound quality is horrendous. When I'm listening to it in me earphones, my ears virtually bleed.
The album ripest for re-recording altogether would be TFF - not the rest, but re-recording Bruce's vocals would make the album three times as good, take my word for it.
I think you may are take it slightly to far, but yes I agree with you! The rule to write more songs then needed is absoloutley something that would improve the quality, and something that people tend to forget. For every 10 songs that make the album there is usually at least 10 more that didn't. That doesn't even mean those songs are bad, they are just not right for that release for one reason or another.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Thanks for sharing. Noice.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Stalin !Okay, let's imagine for a while that I'm the producer and (possibly via shady means like locking them all up and depraving them of food the Beefheart way) I have absolute control over the band, in order to make a great album:
- First everyone who wants a credit should write some song by himself beforehand - try to have at least two or three songs written even if you don't want a credit; it can hardly hurt to practice in that regard. At least don't write in the studio.
- No "internal influences" - okay, one song might get an 'Arry co-write and have acoustic intro/outro, but not more.
- About only a third of the songs is gonna be recorded, so if we aimed for an album with, say, 10 songs, about 30 must be written to choose from, to get at least some form of quality control.
- Encouragement of shorter songs, but very carefully - no pro-forma shite like Gates of Tomorrow or Death or Glory, more like Rainmaker.
- Quality control of the lyrics - not being afraid to tell them to do better.
- If Bruce wants to write lyrics, oh, by all means yes, if he's willing to provide at least Powerslave-like quality, not otherwise.
- Encouragement of experimental tracks (like Isle of Avalon or the Legacy) but again - only using those if they're really good. Not being afraid of acoustic guitars or pianos or Hammonds... if it worked with the song. More cowbell (
- Even as a prog fan - some serious trimming down - if they want to write a (pseudo-)"prog epic", then a prog epic it must be, not just endless repeats and bloated running time.
- Encouragement of the Amigos to write the best riffs they can come up with, possibly increasing the presence of guitars in general.
- Everything that is written and chosen for recording will be then thoroughly rehearsed, for a month at least, so they could play it in their sleep. Couldn't hurt to force them to rehearse meticulously even the older stuff and possibly some covers as well, just to really get into it.
- Keeping some of the outtakes as B-Sides. Also, some Lizzy covers, possibly?
- Keeping 'Arry as far from the producing and mixing as possible.
- Leaving the mixing to someone who knows what he's doing and solemnly swears to have no brickwalling, no clipping and a good dynamic range. Not for the audiophiles, but just for the albums to be listenable. No Californication or What's the Story Morning Glory.
In my book the album ripest for remixing or some serious work done is DoD. It's actually a pretty good album, but the sound quality is horrendous. When I'm listening to it in me earphones, my ears virtually bleed.
The album ripest for re-recording altogether would be TFF - not the rest, but re-recording Bruce's vocals would make the album three times as good, take my word for it.
