Anthrax

MrKnickerbocker said:
I don't think anything Joey Belladonna has done could be considered "the best" of anything. He was perfectly serviceable during his first tenure in Anthrax and he contributed to a couple amazing albums, but his voice was never the highlight.
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Totally agree... he is not bad, just kind of okay. I prefer their albums with Bush singing.
 
SixesAlltheway said:
Belladonna is good for that "glam metal on speed" sound that Anthrax had on their early albums. He's very high pitched and melodic which works for Anthrax, personally I prefer more aggressive thrash metal vocals that has some snarl to em.
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Belladonna's voice is a major highlight of Anthrax, he has a wonderful voice. The Bush era stuff is good too, but Bush isn't the singer Belladonna is.

I do think it is true that there are a lot of successful thrash bands with growly snarly (or screamo) voices, but for me that isn't a defining characteristic of thrash. Anthrax (Belladona) and even Megadeth (esp Youthanasia, Countdown to Extinction etc) are wickedly cool and no less thrash than bands with lesser "singers" if you can call them that a.k.a. Annihilator, Metallica, Slayer, Sepultura. I think it is a bit of a "punk" attitude to try and put down a band by saying Yeah they are OK, but why do they have to be so good at their instruments (or so good at singing), wouldn't it sound a bit more real or aggressive or defiant etc if they didn't try to sound good at playing (or singing).

And, yeah, I know, peeps are likely to criticise my above by saying, well Mustaine ain't a great singer. And that is true, but on Youthanasia he did sing ok and carried a decent melody. Hetfield, Araya, Cavelera, wouldn't be able to carry those tunes. Not even close.

I respect that some people like snarly. I do like Cavelera alot, but I reject the idea that to be a True Thrash band you can't have a great melodic singer.
 
MindlessPieces said:
Belladonna's voice is a major highlight of Anthrax, he has a wonderful voice. The Bush era stuff is good too, but Bush isn't the singer Belladonna is.

I do think it is true that there are a lot of successful thrash bands with growly snarly (or screamo) voices, but for me that isn't a defining characteristic of thrash. Anthrax (Belladona) and even Megadeth (esp Youthanasia, Countdown to Extinction etc) are wickedly cool and no less thrash than bands with lesser "singers" if you can call them that a.k.a. Annihilator, Metallica, Slayer, Sepultura. I think it is a bit of a "punk" attitude to try and put down a band by saying Yeah they are OK, but why do they have to be so good at their instruments (or so good at singing), wouldn't it sound a bit more real or aggressive or defiant etc if they didn't try to sound good at playing (or singing).

And, yeah, I know, peeps are likely to criticise my above by saying, well Mustaine ain't a great singer. And that is true, but on Youthanasia he did sing ok and carried a decent melody. Hetfield, Araya, Cavelera, wouldn't be able to carry those tunes. Not even close.

I respect that some people like snarly. I do like Cavelera alot, but I reject the idea that to be a True Thrash band you can't have a great melodic singer.
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I agree for the most part, but imo Hetfield is miles above these other guys.
 
MindlessPieces said:
Belladonna's voice is a major highlight of Anthrax, he has a wonderful voice. The Bush era stuff is good too, but Bush isn't the singer Belladonna is.

I do think it is true that there are a lot of successful thrash bands with growly snarly (or screamo) voices, but for me that isn't a defining characteristic of thrash. Anthrax (Belladona) and even Megadeth (esp Youthanasia, Countdown to Extinction etc) are wickedly cool and no less thrash than bands with lesser "singers" if you can call them that a.k.a. Annihilator, Metallica, Slayer, Sepultura. I think it is a bit of a "punk" attitude to try and put down a band by saying Yeah they are OK, but why do they have to be so good at their instruments (or so good at singing), wouldn't it sound a bit more real or aggressive or defiant etc if they didn't try to sound good at playing (or singing).

And, yeah, I know, peeps are likely to criticise my above by saying, well Mustaine ain't a great singer. And that is true, but on Youthanasia he did sing ok and carried a decent melody. Hetfield, Araya, Cavelera, wouldn't be able to carry those tunes. Not even close.

I respect that some people like snarly. I do like Cavelera alot, but I reject the idea that to be a True Thrash band you can't have a great melodic singer.
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I will never accept the idea that a band, player, singer, etc is better BECAUSE of their lack of skill. That’s not a valid argument. Music is not made better by lack of playing ability.

And comparing Belladonna to Hetfield or Mustaine is unfair, they’re both far better at writing melodies than Anthrax.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
And comparing Belladonna to Hetfield or Mustaine is unfair, they’re both far better at writing melodies than Anthrax.
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I thought the context was singing ability, and ability to sing a melody.

There are many aspects that two people could be compared on. Song writing is one of those comparisons, and also singing is another comparison.

It would be unfair to compare Steve Harris singing against that of Bruce Dickinson, but it be fair to compare the melodies of Steve penned songs against Bruce's.
It is also fair to compair Bruce vs Blaze in terms of singing, and Belladona vs Hetfield.
 
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MindlessPieces said:
I thought the context was singing ability, and ability to sing a melody.

There are many aspects that two people could be compared on. Song writing is one of those comparisons, and also singing is another comparison.

It would be unfair to compare Steve Harris singing against that of Bruce Dickinson, but it be fair to compare the melodies of Steve penned songs against Bruce's.
It is also fair to compair Bruce vs Blaze in terms of singing, and Belladona vs Hetfield.
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That's all fair, I suppose. However, I still don't think Belladonna is a "great melodic singer" as you put it. I don't think he's a terrible singer, but I certainly wouldn't call his singing "melodic" and that is mostly because of the melodies. Most Anthrax melodies (with Belladonna or Bush) are not super melodic, they're very thrashy, usually quickly spat words as is typical of thrash, followed by belting choruses. He just has a higher vocal range than most thrash singers. Let Joey Belladonna sing some of the melodies on something like Youthanasia and we'll see how melodic he sings.
 
MindlessPieces said:
Belladonna's voice is a major highlight of Anthrax, he has a wonderful voice. The Bush era stuff is good too, but Bush isn't the singer Belladonna is.

I do think it is true that there are a lot of successful thrash bands with growly snarly (or screamo) voices, but for me that isn't a defining characteristic of thrash. Anthrax (Belladona) and even Megadeth (esp Youthanasia, Countdown to Extinction etc) are wickedly cool and no less thrash than bands with lesser "singers" if you can call them that a.k.a. Annihilator, Metallica, Slayer, Sepultura. I think it is a bit of a "punk" attitude to try and put down a band by saying Yeah they are OK, but why do they have to be so good at their instruments (or so good at singing), wouldn't it sound a bit more real or aggressive or defiant etc if they didn't try to sound good at playing (or singing).

And, yeah, I know, peeps are likely to criticise my above by saying, well Mustaine ain't a great singer. And that is true, but on Youthanasia he did sing ok and carried a decent melody. Hetfield, Araya, Cavelera, wouldn't be able to carry those tunes. Not even close.

I respect that some people like snarly. I do like Cavelera alot, but I reject the idea that to be a True Thrash band you can't have a great melodic singer.
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Where in my post did I put down Anthrax? I said he was a good singer, fitting for that glam metal on speed sound that they have. He's a very talented singer. I prefer singers with more "snarl" to their voices. Belladonna doesn't have that, he's like the Kiske of thrash. Mustaine whom you brought up has snarl, lots of attitude and grittiness to his vocals. "snarl" to me doesn't mean growl or anything like that, but just singing with conviction and attitude. I don't think I put down Anthrax or Belladonna for being good musicians, I just said what I prefer...
 
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SixesAlltheway said:
Where in my post did I put down Anthrax? I said he was a good singer, fitting for that glam metal on speed sound that they have. He's a very talented singer. I prefer singers with more "snarl" to their voices. Belladonna doesn't have that, he's like the Kiske of thrash. Mustaine whom you brought up has snarl, lots of attitude and grittiness to his vocals. "snarl" to me doesn't mean growl or anything like that, but just singing with conviction and attitude. I don't think I put down Anthrax or Belladonna for being good musicians, I just said what I prefer...
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Sure, sorry, not meaning to mischaracterise your position.

I still don't quite understand the idea of putting music into category boxes and the putting musicians into category boxes inside those boxes.
Personally I think Bruce or Kiske or Belladonna can all fit thrash music. Just because many thrash bands don't have smooth melodic singers (a.k.a. they either have rasp, or snarl, or screamo, or growls or grunts) it doesn't mean that you can't have thrash with great smooth singers.
My preference would definately be for the smoother voices, I prefer Bruce and Kiske and Belladonna, and Mustaine's Youthanasia voice. I really like thrash but I personally would prefer the smoother singers even in that genre.
 
Bought the Persistence of Time re-release. They did a nice job, the outtakes are pretty interesting and the LP sounds great. Have not listened to this in a while, the album really falls off after Belly of the Beast, but still damned good overall
 
This 40th anniversary video series has made me interested in doing a full discography run through, which I haven't done in like...10 years?

So, here we go...

Fistful of Metal (1984)
My first thought upon listening to this is...how un-thrash it is! I know, I know, this is heralded as one of the "albums that helped launch the thrash metal movement" and possibly even coined the term "thrash metal"...but all I hear is faster NWOBHM. It sounds like Judas Priest on steroids. Most of this is down to Neil Turbin's Halford-lite vocal delivery, but the music is also much more grounded and based in its roots. Hell, there's a couple songs that straight up rip off Maiden (Soldiers of Metal is the riff from Transylvania and Death From Above really really wants to be Where Eagles Dare in its post-solo bridge part and subject matter) and some that are just heavily inspired by the sound (the harmonies in Howling Furies are some Maidenesque tribute stuff we'll never hear again as far as I can remember).

That said, I actually kinda dig it. It's no secret that I'm not a massive pure thrash metal fan, so the more melodic approach is right up my alley. Such enthusiasm, however, is hampered by the high levels of adolescent songwriting and performance on display. The music is fun and energetic, but never great. Neil Turbin chews the scenery worse than Ripper Owens on a bad day. The Alice Cooper cover is pointless and ultimately adds nothing (except double bass drums). Dan Spitz has a long, long way to go before he writes a catchy solo and learns when to stop soloing. I honestly don't know if I heard a bass lick the whole time? Scott Ian is not impressive here, but he's competent, and Benante is always good. The lyrics are often incredibly silly and repetitive. Still, a fun record that hinted at a future that would ultimately sound very little like this record. It reminds me a lot of the first two Maiden albums: a more NWOBHM sound that would ultimately change and a singer with a rough timbre and a lot of faux-aggressive posturing.

Deathrider - 7/10
Metal Thrashing Mad - 7/10
I'm Eighteen - 5/10
Panic - 7/10
Subjugator - 6/10
Soldiers of Metal - 3/10
Death From Above - 8/10
Anthrax - 7/10
Across The River/Howling Furies - 8/10

Album Rating - 6.4/10
 
Spreading the Disease (1985)
The change in the overall sound of the band is immediately apparent here: they've leveled up. It's easy to give credit to Joey Belladonna and Frank Bello as the new members, but mostly I think Ian and Benante just got much better at songwriting. Not every song is great, but it sure opens with a bang. The first three tracks are exceptional, with tons of attitude, melody, speed, and fun, while showcasing a band that sounds hungry. They've also really come into a sound of their own, instead of sounding like a faster rip-off of Judas Priest or a second-rate Metallica/Maiden. The twists and turns in A.I.R. and Madhouse are wonderful. Lone Justice has a killer groove and some nice riffs (and some Steve Harris worship coming from Bello's bass).

The melodies are also so much better here. The "welcome to your nightmare" might be one of their catchiest moments ever. Madhouse is such a jam. The Enemy is a track I've forgotten about but that really stands out on this record (and their discography as a whole) for being much more mid-tempo and groovy. There's definitely some atrocious lyrics and a few clunkers: Stand or Fall is a mess, Aftershock goes nowhere, Medusa's lyrics are positively awful, and Gung-Ho does absolutely nothing for me (especially with that bizarre ending). Belladonna is not my favorite vocalist (and not even my favorite Anthrax vocalist), but his voice is quite good here. His melodic singing is awesome, his occasional runs are good, and his clarity of tone is great. His diction, however, is pretty terrible (James LaBrie has this same problem) and Scott Ian's rapid fire lyric stylings don't help him at all.

Overall, it's a really good record that's dragged down by some pure filler.

A.I.R. - 10/10
Lone Justice - 10/10
Madhouse - 10/10
S.S.C./Stand or Fall - 5/10
The Enemy - 10/10
Aftershock - 6/10
Armed and Dangerous - 9/10
Medusa - 6/10
Gung-Ho - 3/10

Album Rating - 7.6/10
 
Someone ready the banhammer, cause it's...

Among The Living (1987)
I don't know what happened, and I don't know why I am about to be controversial, but...this album is ludicrously flawed. Sure, there's 2-3 absolute classics, but the rest, YEEEEEESH the rest is just not very good. The title track, Caught in a Mosh, and Indians are fantastic. Everything else could easily be dumped. Props go to Benante and Bello for performing the shit out of every song, and even Dan Spitz for throw some catchy leads in there.

1. The vocal melodies are fucking terrible. Scott Ian's lyrics are unsingable, have virtually no melodic hooks (beyond the three aforementioned tunes...and even those have terrible issues in the verses), and...
2. Joey Belladonna sounds like absolute shit. He is not believable singing for this band, his melodic choices are questionable at best, and (again) Ian's lyrics are fucking unsingable over the music. You can even tell that the band knew this, since the gang vocals LITERALLY NEVER STOP. Scott Ian and Frankie Bello probably sing as much on this record as Joey does. It's incredibly annoying. It's also very obvious that Joey double/triple-tracked all of his leads as there is constant phasing issues in the mix.
3. Most of the riffs are stock as shit. It's just crunching and thrashing. 70% of this album is unmemorable at best, or memorable-for-the-worst-reasons.

I know it's heralded as a "classic of the genre", but no, this is a step back from where the band was headed on Spreading the Disease. They want to be as fast and brutal as Slayer, but with a singer who'd rather sing Journey covers and lyrics about comic books. It's just...a misfire. I know. Ban me now.

This article does a great job of summing up many of my points: https://www.decibelmagazine.com/2011/07/20/disposable-heroes-anthrax-s-among-the-living/

Among the Living - 10/10
Caught in a Mosh - 10/10
I Am the Law - 7/10
Efilnikufesin (N.F.L.) - 5/10
A Skeleton in the Closet - 6/10
Indians - 10/10
One World - 4/10
A.D.I./Horror Of It All - 5/10
Imitation of Life - 2/10

Album Rating - 6.5/10

*John Bush sounds 100% better singing all of these songs*
 
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