Alexander the Great

How good is Alexander the Great on a scale of 1-10?


  • Total voters
    78
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

I do see.  Then I should sue the producers of that documentary I saw on the history channel. 
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

There is so much misinformation about Alexander, and ancient history in general, that you shouldn't bother about this minor one. Since these skirmishes weren't classic battles, I suppose you can pardon that glitch.
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Perun said:
Depends on how you see it. In Central Asia, the Macedonians went through a number of skirmishes that could technically described as defeats.

I don't remember of something like this. Can you give more facts about these skirmishes please ? (dates, names of places, what you have)
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Arrianus, IV, 16
Quintus Curtius Rufus, 7.7.31-9

Remember I was talking about the Macedonians, not Alexander.
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Perun said:
Arrianus, IV, 16
Quintus Curtius Rufus, 7.7.31-9

Remember I was talking about the Macedonians, not Alexander.

a) I don't have arrian's anavasis here, it would be more easy to give places or dates

b) the answer you gave it was for Alexander. To this quote of Mr. St-Cyr:

Someone up there said Alexander lost battles.  I am not sure about that.  As to my knowledge Alexander may well be one of the only generals who never lost a battle.  Am I not correct?

Depends on how you see it. In Central Asia, the Macedonians went through a number of skirmishes that could technically described as defeats.

....In one moment, Alexander had divide his army in three parts : The part of Nearchus had something like defeat, I don't remeber about Hefaestion's part, but the fact is the Alexander himself, he never was present in a defeat.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

First, an apology: I accidentally clicked on "modify" instead of "quote", and consequently messed up your post. I tried to restore it the best I could, but it might be that I destroyed some parts of it. My sincere apology, I did not intend to do that.

Now, onto the reply...

a) I don't have arrian's anavasis here, it would be more easy to give places or dates

Look up Spitamenes and the events of 328 BC. I admit they are quite confusing, but there are some details about Spitamenes' forces destroying an admittedly rather small part of the Macedonian army.

b) the answer you gave it was for Alexander. To this quote of Mr. St-Cyr:

Depends on how you see it. In Central Asia, the Macedonians went through a number of skirmishes that could technically described as defeats.

I deliberately worded it that way to avoid saying something wrong. I never said Alexander lost any battle.

....In one moment, Alexander had divide his army in three parts : The part of Nearchus had something like defeat, I don't remeber about Hefaestion's part, but the fact is the Alexander himself, he never was present in a defeat.

You're confusing Hephaestion with Krateros.
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Perun said:
You're confusing Hephaestion with Krateros.

possible, I just remember that his very beloved friend died in Babylone before Alexander's arrival from India
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

____no5 said:
possible, I just remember that his very beloved friend died in Babylone before Alexander's arrival from India

Nope, Hephaestion died long after Alexander returned to Babylon. Alexander and Hephaestion never really parted ways during the campaign. Check, for example, Plutarch, Alexander, 72 (full e-text is available on the Commentary).
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Perun said:
Nope, Hephaestion died long after Alexander returned to Babylon. Alexander and Hephaestion never really parted ways during the campaign. Check, for example, Plutarch, Alexander, 72 (full e-text is available on the Commentary).

I checked wikipedia and it was as I telling....

"After traveling to Ecbatana to retrieve the bulk of the Persian treasure, his closest friend and possibly lover[11] Hephaestion died of an illness, or possibly of poisoning.

Death

On the afternoon of June 10–11, 323 BC, Alexander died of a mysterious illness in the palace of Nebuchadrezzar II of Babylon. He was just one month shy of attaining 33 years of age.
"

I'll check commentary though
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

You trust Wikipedia over scholary literature and the original sources (which are what I am quoting from)? Have we really come this far?

Apart from that, the passage you quoted from the Wikipedia article is in the section entitled "After India". Ecbatana was a city in Persia* (modern-day Hamadan).


*Let's hope nobody will come and correct me that it was actually a city in Media...
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Perun said:
You trust Wikipedia over scholary literature and the original sources (which are what I am quoting from)? Have we really come this far?

Apart from that, the passage you quoted from the Wikipedia article is in the section entitled "After India". Ecbatana was a city in Persia* (modern-day Hamadan).


*Let's hope nobody will come and correct me that it was actually a city in Media...

a) no, it was more simple for me that time to look to wikipedia for a quick verification
b) I'll check it in Plutarch also (but I remember it very well what I say, I'll tell you later why), but as soon as I find some time, it can be coming Sunday I'm afraid.....

it is possible, that Alexander, to protect his beloved, didn't make him pass throught the dessert Arachosia, and send him to Babylone from a more safe path......I'll verify my telling, and you'll have my definite answer if not tonight, then Sunday
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

It looks like you are confusing things here:

"Alexander now ordered Hephaestion to proceed to Persia with the elephants, the baggage-train, and the greater part of the army. His instructions were to take the coastal route, because it was now winter and he would find in the coastal regions of Persia both warm weather and an abundance of supplies." (Arrian, VI, 29).

Yes, Alexander ordered Hephaestion to lead an army section, however that was in December 325, and after the march through the Gedrosian desert (the (in)famous partition into three parts of the army took place in Summer 325: Krateros led his part through Arachosia, Nearchus sailed along the coast and Alexander, with Hephaestion as we have seen, went through Gedrosia). Hephaestion died in winter 324, in Ecbatana, and Alexander was in the same city at that time:

"At Ecbatana, Alexander offered sacrifice, as it was his custom to do to celebrate a happy occasion. He also held a festival with literary and athletic contests, and drank deep with his closest friends. About this time Hephaestion fell sick. On the seventh day of his illness it so happened that thee was a big crowd at the stadium to watch the boys' races, which were then taking place. During the races a message was brought to Alexander that Hephaestion's condition was serious; he hurried away, but his friend was dead before he could reach him." (Arrian, VII, 14)

"When he came to Ecbatana in Media, and had despatched his most urgent affairs, he began to divert himself again with spectacles and public entertainments, to carry on which he had a supply of three thousand actors and artists, newly arrived out of Greece. But they were soon interrupted by Hephaestion's falling sick of a fever, in which, being a young man and a soldier, too, he could not confine himself to so exact a diet as was necessary; for whilst his physician, Glaucus, was gone to the theatre, he ate a fowl for his dinner, and drank a large draught of wine, upon which he became very ill, and shortly after died. At this misfortune, Alexander was so beyond. all reason transported that, to express his sorrow, he immediately ordered the manes and tails of all his horses and mules to be cut, and threw down the battlements of the neighbouring cities. The poor physician he crucified, and forbade playing on the flute or any other musical instrument in the camp a great while, till directions came from the oracle of Ammon, and enjoined him to honour Hephaestion, and sacrifice to him as a hero. Then seeking to alleviate his grief in war, he set out, as it were, to a hunt and chase of men, for he fell upon the Cossaeans, and put the whole nation to the sword. This was called a sacrifice to Hephaestion's ghost." (Plutarch, 72)

Diodorus (17.110.8) and Iustinus (12.12.11-12) make mention of it too, but I have those two works hidden in some unmarked binder which I'm just too lazy to look for right now.
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

you see? I was right....

a) it was Hefaestion that died first (exactly as Patrocle died before Achilles)
b) He died (Hefaestion) before's Alexander entry in Babylone

I was remembering that because I read a book before 10 years that was showing the similarities between Alexander /Achilles -Hefaestion /Patrocle

Besides that, Alexander was Achilles' (and Hercules') descendant from the part of his mother
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Re: 'alexander The Great'

I never said Hephaestion didn't die first. I was just pointing out that this was untrue:

it is possible, that Alexander, to protect his beloved, didn't make him pass throught the dessert Arachosia, and send him to Babylone from a more safe path......

I verified that isn't true by citing the sources.

I was remembering that because I read a book before 10 years that was showing the similarities between Alexander /Achilles -Hefaestion /Patrocle

That's common knowledge. Hephaestion and Alexander nicknamed each other Patroclos and Achilles- according to, I think, Plutarch, this goes back to a statement by Aristotle.

Besides that, Alexander was Achilles' (and Hercules') descendant from the part of his mother

I hope you're not citing this ancient myth to be a historical fact...
 

______no5

The Angel Of The Odd
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Perun said:
I never said Hephaestion didn't die first. I was just pointing out that this was untrue:

what is this so ?

Perun said:
Nope, Hephaestion died long after Alexander returned to Babylon. Alexander and Hephaestion never really parted ways during the campaign. Check, for example, Plutarch, Alexander, 72 (full e-text is available on the Commentary).

I think you are wrong, you did said that, or I don't know to read English (possible.....smile)

      [.................................]

-Gedrosia desert case : (mistake of name in my post)
in my post of...
____no5 said:
it is possible, that Alexander, to protect his beloved, didn't make him pass throught the dessert Arachosia, and send him to Babylone from a more safe path......

your answer is :
Perun said:
I verified that isn't true by citing the sources.

Well, at least you verified. I din't find the time to do it, here you are stronger than me. Plus the mistake of Arachosia (!) desert, I zip my mouth (is there any expression to describe this I wonder ?)

-Nicknamed?
Perun said:
That's common knowledge. Hephaestion and Alexander nicknamed each other Patroclos and Achilles- according to, I think, Plutarch, this goes back to a statement by Aristotle.

They didn't just nicknamed they did something much more serious :
They offered sacrificies to the sepultures of Achilles and Patrocle, when they visited the land of Troy. After, they promised to gods to be such good friend to each other, as Achilles and Patrocle were. And, finally they run nacked aroung the graves

-History and Mythology
____no5 said:
Besides that, Alexander was Achilles' (and Hercules') descendant from the part of his mother

Perun said:
I hope you're not citing this ancient myth to be a historical fact...

  Personally, I believe that. It's not exactly a myth but declarations by Alexander's family
 

Zare

Automaton Sovietico
Re: 'alexander The Great'

In year 2000, fans mailed their questions and members of Maiden answered them, and the Q&A got published on IM's website.
I've read them back then, and i've tried to find them throughout last two years or so, but failed.

And then the irony...they're all published on this site's interviews section! So let's dig up some interesting ATG bits...

Q : Is there any Maiden song(s) that you have never played live, but would like to? Seth
Nicko : Hi Seth, Yes I would love to play Alexander the Great live I think it would be awesome.

Q : Hello.I would like to ask you if you will come to Greece and when because all your fans here in Greece miss your appearance at Rockwave festival in July 14 because of Janick's hurt.And if you will play Alexander The Great.You have never play it here in Greece. Thank you. stelios , Athens,Greece
Bruce : See you soon, but no Alexander.

Q : Hello! I was just wondering why you guys have never played Alexander The Great live. It's one of the best song written. And the solos are also amonst the best ever. Cheerz! Markus K, Sweden
Steve : Adrian can't remember the solo

Q : What's the best Iron Maiden song you've never played on tour? Marcio Gabilan, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Steve : Alexander the Great.

------------------------------

Adrian would relearn the solo pretty quick, this shows that they all like the song, except Bruce, who is the main reason why they didn't do it live.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Zare said:
they're all published on this site's interviews section! So let's dig up some interesting ATG bits...

Link? I have an answered question from Adrian, I am curious if I can find it again.
 

Zare

Automaton Sovietico
Re: 'alexander The Great'

This site as in this site  :D
eg. www.maidenfans.com , interviews section, interviews with all band members conducted by "Iron Maiden FAQ" in 2000.
 

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
Re: 'alexander The Great'

Thanks!

Found it:

Hello Adrian! I heard you might be planning to make an instrumental album! Very interesting. Would you give us some more info? Thanks!


Yes. I will so some recording this year which may be instrumental.
 
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