A matter of Identity: how do you see yourself?

[Onhell]

I've been meaning to post about this topic for a while and today I filled out a questionaire that finally pushed me over the edge. Identity. More importantly, SELF identity. How do you see yourself and WHY? Allow me to explain

As most of you know I self-identify as Mexican. BUT, I also lived in the U.S for 17 years and gained citizenship. Given that I spent my childhood in Mexico and my young adulthood in the U.S, I am bilingual, bicultural and binational. Thing is, in Mexico they think I'm American or they excuse my perspective on certain matters with, "Oh well, he grew up in the States." I have to remind them that no, I did not. I was born and raised in Mexico. In the US they don't know I'm Mexican at first because of my complexion, but once they find out they treat me differntly, not badly, just... different. They'll give me racist compliments like, "You don't look Mexican," or "but you're one of the good ones," or assume a bunch of stereotypes. In other words I'm a man of two worlds and don't fully belong to either one.

As most of you don't know, when I was 7 months old I fell three meters ('bout 9 feet) which resulted in a severe head injury. My brain became so swollen I looked as though I had two heads. The left side of my body was paralyzed for 3 days and I was on a bed of ice for two weeks, because if my fever rose just a single degree I would die. Thanks to my dad being in the army I got all of my medical care for free. Thanks to that I have no physical tells of the accident. My speach is fine, I don't have droopy face or limp, etc. I am, however, blind on the bottom quarters of my eyes which prevents me from noticing certain details or see things that are far away, even with my glasses. I still played hockey fairly competently.

I say this, because earlier this year my scar from the first three operations opened, became infected and I required surgery. Due to the infection, the acrylic plate (which was replacement from the original metal one) had become infected and had to be removed along with a chunk of skull. So I'm currently walking around with a hole in my head. If I let my hair grow one can't notice.

Which brings me to the questionnaire I just filled out. My boss recommend I fill it out, because I am due to have a second surgery at some point to get a new titanium plate put in. I asked the doctors if they could also install a USB connector or an FM radio at the least, but they said no. It was a medical questionnaire. Do you have a cronic illness, do you have family members that do, any severe allergies, etc. I went through it wondering which was the question pertinent to my situation as she said it was important to fill it out due to the upcoming surgery. Upon a second reading of it I figured it out:

Do you have any disabilities?

I stared at it... Well... No. Like I said, I don't need a cane, much less a wheelchair, I have full motor functions of my entire body, I don't need special glasses or screens, etc. I do have brain damage... it's there, you can see it on an EEG and any other imaging tool. Yet... I'm FINE. My parents never treated it as a handicap so I've never seen it as one. I did sports, went to college, etc. I don't see myself as "disabled." My immidiate response to the question was a firm, "No." But then I recalled the conversation with my boss.... getting time off of work for my second surgery may be contingent on this question. I changed my answer to "Yes," and specified in the box bellow.

In short. I identify as Mexican, due to my heterosexual male priviledge, I don't work either my gender or sexuality into my identity. I DON'T see myself or consider myself disabled.

How do others see you and how do you see yourself?

 

[JudasMyGuide]

I self-identify as a Romantic (in the original sense, possibly a Decadent - again, in the original literary sense), a Catholic and a Czech. The first two are connected ... a lot, so I kinda give off some weird vibes, in the general style of Bloy, Huysmans, Claudel, Chesterton etc. It's neither escapism nor delusion, it's more about ... living the mythos, so to speak. I often give very strong, categorical opinions, but I'm also quite able to contradict myself and to embrace the fact. And Sehnsucht/saudade. Lots and lots of Sehnsucht.

A fanatic of the narrative, of the arts (music included) and a devoted family man. A wannabe academic obsessed with analysing a lot of things, but the analysis must be interesting. I'm not sure whether the meaning is the same in English, but I'm totally opposed to a small-town mentality, as I understand it.

I can see myself fitting quite well in a Dostoevsky novel, in short.

I used to self-identify as a conservative, but I'm most definitely not... in the ways most people understand the term, either in politics or theology. I believe both the liberals and the conservatives are inherently toxic, both in politics and in the church. I don't even know what'd I do if I lived in the US - I'd probably rather hanged myself than to vote for either the Republicans or the Democrats.

I think that many people percieve me mostly as a provocateur of sorts, intentionally giving out grand statements to get a reaction... the others probably think I'm clinically insane.

Also my tendency to be interested in everything might seem a tad protean to others, I'd say.

People tend to remember me, so I must stand out in some way.

I feel like I'm your typical late-19th-century-type intellectual, yet sensitive/passionate convert and actually quite boring at that, but I feel like I'm thrown into a milieu which doesn't really know what to do with me.

 

[Lamia020281]

My national identity is quite straight-forward: Finnish. I've lived here all my life, and have only one mother tongue. Actually, now that I think about it, my environment before the age of 20 was one-culture. I don't have the stereotypical blond hair and blue eyes though, and sometimes when going in a plane, the Finnish air hostess greeted me in English, so people who don't know me, may think I have a different nationality than what I actually do.

I identify as healthy, both physically and mentally, although I do have some chronic illnesses (like allergies and migraine), but I don't catch colds or stomach bugs easily. A relative once said she thinks I'm unlucky because of the chronic conditions, whereas she's very healthy. I was surprised, because she often had colds etc. So, it was interesting to see how differently people view health. Myself, I don't see migraine as an illness at all, it's just my characteristic.

I'm a bit hesitant to express my political view, because it's not well tolerated in all forums, but I guess there's no harm if I tell it here: I'm a left-wing Green Party supporter, have been for 20 years now. I'm interested in politics, and follow it quite closely. Being a youngish(?) woman in a large town, and wearing slightly worn clothes from second-hand shops, I guess most people would guess my political views quite accurately.

My religious identity is that I'm non-religious. I used to be Christian, then an atheist for a long time, but I didn't feel comfortable with that identity. To be atheist, one should be sure there's no God, and I couldn't be sure. Then I realized I don't even want to think about the existence of God. He may exist, or not. I don't really care either way. This identity feels very good: it gives me the permission to not think about that stuff.

Last but not least, I'm a single heterosexual woman. It would be cool to be interested in a person, regardless of their gender, but I had to admit to myself that I'm really only interested in men. I'm very happy to be friends with women or other genders that look feminine, but I just don't have romantic feelings for feminine persons. No, it has to be a man. Men are impossible to live with, but so tempting!
I feel I've been fortunate to be born in a gender that I feel is the right one for me. I've always been a very feminine woman, and I really enjoy being one.
No-one's ever mistaken me for a man, and I tend to talk about men quite a lot, so I guess people guess my heterosexuality quite easily!

I tried to be polite in this message, I hope I did it right!

 

[MindRuler]

My religious identity is that I'm non-religious. I used to be Christian, then an atheist for a long time, but I didn't feel comfortable with that identity. To be atheist, one should be sure there's no God, and I couldn't be sure.

So you´re agnostic... like me. You can´t proof that God exists. But you also can´t proof that God doesn´t exist. An atheist just beliefs there is no higher power so it´s indeed a whole difference.

 

[Lamia020281]

So you´re agnostic... like me. You can´t proof that God exists. But you also can´t proof that God doesn´t exist. An atheist just beliefs there is no higher power so it´s indeed a whole difference.

To me, it's also important that I'm "outside" the whole question. I don't think about it, I don't care about it. Non-religious describes me better than agnostic, I believe. Agnostic sounds like a person who contemplates these things, but cannot find proof either way.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

So you´re agnostic... like me. You can´t proof that God exists. But you also can´t proof that God doesn´t exist. An atheist just beliefs there is no higher power so it´s indeed a whole difference.

Hey, I realise this is the self-identification thread and in theory, everything is permitted - if anyone wants to consider themself an agnostic, fine, they can.

But still... felt the need to maybe dabble a bit in the terminology.

First of all, to know and to prove is not the same thing. For example, as a "gnostic" (not a Gnostic, BTW, there is a difference) I'd say that you can know that there is a God but you can't prove it (empirically, that is. There's an altogether different can of worms regarding whether you can prove it philosophically).

But let's say yes, it's not just about proof, you insist that there is no way we could even know whether there is a g(G)od. So agnostic then.

And I'd say you can still be a theistic agnostic or atheistic agnostic - therefore you don't think we can know, but you come to a conclusion, personally. That is, you think that there either is a g(G)od or not. Either in theory or in practice.

Or you can be an apathetic agnostic, which means that you're too indifferent to even have an opinion on that. But still, in practice you are often one or the other.

My point is, "a/gnosticism" talks about the possibility of knowledge of a higher power (which you talked about, sure), but "a/theism" talks about the belief in a higher power and those two are not interchangeable. And calling yourself a/gnostic doesn't tell that much about you like calling yourself a/theist does, IMHO.

I know it was what you talked about, but I'm not sure whether it was what Lamia was saying.


EDIT: I see that Lamia already answered to that.
Anyway, I kinda do this stuf for shits and giggles, so sorry to be obnoxious. Please, feel free to ignore me.

 

[CriedWhenBrucieLeft]

Has anyone here actually had shits and giggles at the same time?

 

[MindRuler]

Hey, I realise this is the self-identification thread and in theory, everything is permitted - if anyone wants to consider themself an agnostic, fine, they can.

But still... felt the need to maybe dabble a bit in the terminology.

First of all, to know and to prove is not the same thing. For example, as a "gnostic" (not a Gnostic, BTW, there is a difference) I'd say that you can know that there is a God but you can't prove it (empirically, that is. There's an altogether different can of worms regarding whether you can prove it philosophically).

But let's say yes, it's not just about proof, you insist that there is no way we could even know whether there is a g(G)od. So agnostic then.

And I'd say you can still be a theistic agnostic or atheistic agnostic - therefore you don't think we can know, but you come to a conclusion, personally. That is, you think that there either is a g(G)od or not. Either in theory or in practice.

Or you can be an apathetic agnostic, which means that you're too indifferent to even have an opinion on that. But still, in practice you are often one or the other.

My point is, "a/gnosticism" talks about the possibility of knowledge of a higher power (which you talked about, sure), but "a/theism" talks about the belief in a higher power and those two are not interchangeable. And calling yourself a/gnostic doesn't tell that much about you like calling yourself a/theist does, IMHO.

I know it was what you talked about, but I'm not sure whether it was what Lamia was saying.


EDIT: I see that Lamia already answered to that.
Anyway, I kinda do this stuf for shits and giggles, so sorry to be obnoxious. Please, feel free to ignore me.

Hey JMG, thanks for clearing this out.
You're right there's a huge difference between knowing and proving.
You're not obnoxious at all, it's nice to talk about these kind of things. I'm not that good with words like you though (at least not in English)

 

[MindRuler]

To me, it's also important that I'm "outside" the whole question. I don't think about it, I don't care about it. Non-religious describes me better than agnostic, I believe. Agnostic sounds like a person who contemplates these things, but cannot find proof either way.

I'm defnititely not contemplating all the time but it happens (for example while looking at the stars) that these things come to mind.
I think too much.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Has anyone here actually had shits and giggles at the same time?

Definitely. Anytime you remember the classic Ashes to Ashes series and Gene Hunt's quote to the perp he's currently interrogating: "I've had harder shites than you. Friday night, after curry.” Especially after curry.

 

[Lamia020281]

Has anyone here actually had shits and giggles at the same time?

That's quite a personal question really. I'd rather not think about that, if you don't mind.

 

[MindRuler]

The way I see myself changed some years ago when I found out what was "wrong" with me.
I got bullied as a kid during my school years and at that moment I thought it was because of my glasses or weird hairdo. But when I look back at pictures of that time period, everyone had the same hairdo and some were wearing glasses too. And they didn't get bullied.
I was a polite, sensible, introvert child who liked to read comics and books about space, animals (especially amphibians and reptiles)
In highschool I studied the first 4 years Latin/Greek and didn't belong to the group and at that time I wasn't into metal music yet.
Don't know why but all of a sudden I had problems to concentrate and couldn't study anymore. I had to change classes, survived highschool though and went to art school because I wanted to become an illustrator or comic writer. I also went to evening classes to become an art teacher which I did for several years but after a few mental breakdowns I got jobless. Now I'm working at a do-it-yourself store but I'm bored out and I really want to work somewhere else 'cos the customers suck me dry mentally. I'm having 2 kids and my relationship is very un-intimate at the moment.
So, I'm at a point where I could burn all my bridges or build new ones. I'm spending alot of time on this forum and I even was planning to leave (which I actually did a few weeks ago) but decided to stay.
My co-workers see me as the happy, funny guy but at home I'm just a wreck.

 

[Lamia020281]

I thought I could add that I found the identity of an atheist a bit difficult, because it seems that many atheists are very strict in their thinking, at least here. And they have a tendency to ridicule other people's religious views, which I find unpleasant. I try to respect the religions of others, even though I don't believe in the same things.

 

[MindRuler]

I thought I could add that I found the identity of an atheist a bit difficult, because it seems that many atheists are very strict in their thinking, at least here. And they have a tendency to ridicule other people's religious views, which I find unpleasant. I try to respect the religions of others, even though I don't believe in the same things.

I only have a problem with people who try to convince you to their religion.
Otherwise everyone is free in which or what he or she believes in or doesn't believe in.
And that's the same with music. No one can turn me into a death/black metalfan.

 

[Magnus]

And they have a tendency to ridicule other people's religious views, which I find unpleasant.

Being this planet's only - so far - deadpantheist, I have the tendency to ridicule anything.
Religious obligation, I'm afraid.

 

[Lamia020281]

So, I'm at a point where I could burn all my bridges or build new ones. I'm spending alot of time on this forum and I even was planning to leave (which I actually did a few weeks ago) but decided to stay.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully you can find new solutions that suit you better. I know about new beginnings: a few years back I found myself without home, job and partner. It took some hard work, but I now have a new apartment and a career. It took a bit of time, too, but I'm now happy with both.

I know about leaving forums too. Not this one, but another. Wasn't happy when I was there, now I'm not happy when I'm not there. Go figure. I guess sometimes you just can't win.

 

[MindRuler]

Sorry to hear about your troubles. Hopefully you can find new solutions that suit you better. I know about new beginnings: a few years back I found myself without home, job and partner. It took some hard work, but I now have a new apartment and a career. It took a bit of time, too, but I'm now happy with both.

Thx. Thing is, I think way too much, and when there's too much negativity, the thinking gets negative too. It's a neverending spiral. It can be broken by spending time here, listening to music and talk to fellow Maiden fans. It's cheaper than all the shrinks and psy's I visited it through the years. I'm glad you're happy with your new appartment and career.

 

[Brigantium]

I see self-identity as more of a feeling and a collection of preferences than a tag. It can be defined by others too, I guess, in terms of whether they accept, embrace, reject or ostracise you, based on a defining characteristic or characteristics you do or don't share with them.

I don't personally feel any identifying sentiment about nationality, I don't think it has any genuine meaning, certainly not here, and would question how genuinely unifying it is in a great many places. I'd be English in Scotland, I'd be Geordie in London, I'd be Mackem in Newcastle, I'd be 'posh' in Sunderland.

Not remotely religious. In fact it's so irrelevant in my life I don't even actively sell myself as an atheist, it's like an ignored tickbox on a survey. Don't think I have any notable disability, if I do, it's not something I class as defining. I can't actively fly a flag for any particular gender. I have one assigned at birth and I'll state it when asked, but again, I'm not bursting to celebrate it or live up to any stereotypes.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

The way I see myself changed some years ago when I found out what was "wrong" with me.
I got bullied as a kid during my school years and at that moment I thought it was because of my glasses or weird hairdo. But when I look back at pictures of that time period, everyone had the same hairdo and some were wearing glasses too. And they didn't get bullied.
I was a polite, sensible, introvert child who liked to read comics and books about space, animals (especially amphibians and reptiles)
In highschool I studied the first 4 years Latin/Greek and didn't belong to the group and at that time I wasn't into metal music yet.
Don't know why but all of a sudden I had problems to concentrate and couldn't study anymore. I had to change classes, survived highschool though and went to art school because I wanted to become an illustrator or comic writer. I also went to evening classes to become an art teacher which I did for several years but after a few mental breakdowns I got jobless. Now I'm working at a do-it-yourself store but I'm bored out and I really want to work somewhere else 'cos the customers suck me dry mentally. I'm having 2 kids and my relationship is very un-intimate at the moment.
So, I'm at a point where I could burn all my bridges or build new ones. I'm spending alot of time on this forum and I even was planning to leave (which I actually did a few weeks ago) but decided to stay.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what precisely is supposed to be "wrong" with you.

What I see is a rather normal experience of a searching, hoping, yearning, sensitive human being.

I wish you the best and remember, these tumultuous states can be actually beneficial in the long run, unless you let them take hold of you and do something unwise. If your whole life journey was comfortable, what growth is there for a person? I'm talking from experience - I used to suffer from extreme panic attacks and existential dread. I actually thought I'd die before the day was over.

I only have a problem with people who try to convince you to their religion.
Otherwise everyone is free in which or what he or she believes in or doesn't believe in.
And that's the same with music. No one can turn me into a death/black metalfan.

These are not the same, however. I mean, if you realise and discover that something is really astonishingly, unexplicably good for a person... if it might even be the ultimate good, it only makes sense you would want other people to discover it as well. Especially if you care about them.
Otherwise it's just apathy or ... "tolerance" which I - in my hyperbole I talked about in my first post above - call (quoting an old poet) "a fatal want of love".

In that regard, yes, an atheist who'll do his best to turn me away from my beliefs and to "save" me from the other side ... I'm fine with that. It means he's taking the whole metaphysical question seriously (as it should be taken) and that he cares about me and doesn't want me to live in what he believes to be a lie.

This whole "let whomever believe in whatever unless it concerns me" is... well... not good, in general. IMHO, sorry. Even society/community-wise. We should talk and argue and try to convince. We really, really should. It's one of the few things that really matter, in the end.

Like, I wish others would believe in God, because I believe (and I have philosophical arguments for it, at least some) that it's the only way to be truly happy.

I don't do it overtly. I don't really do it conspicuously. I don't do it obnoxiously. But yes, I wish I could everyone make to convert, because... well... I was dead and now I'm alive. And I want to testify to that.

Not remotely religious. In fact it's so irrelevant in my life I don't even actively sell myself as an atheist, it's like an ignored tickbox on a survey. Don't think I have any notable disability.

Well, because of the first two sentences I doubt the truthfulness of the third.

(Sorry, Brigs, I just couldn't help myself. You know I love you )

 

[Magnus]

In that regard, yes, an atheist who'll do his best to turn me away from my beliefs and to "save" me from the other side ... I'm fine with that. It means he's taking the whole metaphysical question seriously (as it should be taken) and that he cares about me and doesn't want me to live in what he believes to be a lie.

I care about you, and I don't want you to live in what I believe to be a lie, and yet I have enough respect for you and your beliefs not to meddle with them.
How on earth is this wrong is beyond me, frankly.