2014 FIFA World Cup in Brazil
- Thread starter Night Prowler
- Start date
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
Van Gaal clearly is a manager who thinks outside of the box, and I think that is what makes him a genius. I strongly suspect the tactic of subbing the goalie for a penalty shootout was planned in advance. I also think the substitution was a double whammy, in that, it could have played mind games with the Costa Ricans. That Van Gaal was putting on his preferred goalie for penalties, that he was playing his strongest hand in that situation. And that certainly could have made the prospect of taking penalties against Krul more daunting for the Costa Rican penalty takers, than if Cillessen had remained in goal.
Warhurst
Invader
Cillessen did not know about it untill it happened. Krul did and he was not allowed to talk about it. Cillessen kicked a watersack as he walked towards the bench and that was not out of joy. He has apologized for it. As for the study. They (all three keepers and the keeper coach) did study but as Krul said afterwards all penalties were not taken as they did against Greece. Krul waited till the end and than made a choice for a corner.
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
If all of that is true, then it makes it quite likely that Van Gaal made the decision more to play mind games with Costa Rica than anything else. They were expecting to face Cillessen, then all of a sudden, they're realizing they're facing a different keeper, one which they'd probably presume to be a specialist at stopping penalties, as why else would Van Gaal make that change? This would likely make them overanalyze and second guess themselves whilst taking the penalities, and that by itself, could have made all the difference. It has to be said though, all of the Dutch penalties were perfect. Navas had no chance with any of them.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I have actually seen a very disappointed reaction by Cillessen when he arrived at the bench. As if he still wanted to do these penalties himself.
Still he cheered the loudest when these penalties were stopped.
EDIT:
Sorry Warhurst, I posted too quickly and hadn't read yours yet. Foutje bedankt.
And I missed that Cillessen wasn't informed (must have gone to the toilet), so thanks for that as well!
EDIT 2:
By the way, Hugo Borst (in the video on the left, football "specialist" sidekick) had already predicted two weeks ago that Krul would have to take the shots instead of Cillessen. The thing is: Cillessen is not good at stopping penalties. Krul did stop a few, and is more of a specialist (although he doesn't have a great record at all, just a better one).
EDIT 3:
(Second half of) angry reaction Cillessen:
Still he cheered the loudest when these penalties were stopped.
EDIT:
Sorry Warhurst, I posted too quickly and hadn't read yours yet. Foutje bedankt.
And I missed that Cillessen wasn't informed (must have gone to the toilet), so thanks for that as well!
EDIT 2:
By the way, Hugo Borst (in the video on the left, football "specialist" sidekick) had already predicted two weeks ago that Krul would have to take the shots instead of Cillessen. The thing is: Cillessen is not good at stopping penalties. Krul did stop a few, and is more of a specialist (although he doesn't have a great record at all, just a better one).
EDIT 3:
(Second half of) angry reaction Cillessen:
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Someone said this on Twitter:
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Fair enough that you disagree with me - but did you just quote FIFA to support your case
? As if they would care if the victim wasn't a high-profile player like Neymar ...I stand by what I say. Players go in with their knee to the opponent's back often. A broken vertebrae is a very unlikely outcome of that. In my opinion it was a borderline yellow/red card. That being said, the ref should have brought the yellow card out much earlier, perhaps that challenge wouldn't even have happened then. The Colombian players were frustrated with the Brazilians getting away with a lot (and vice versa).
I hope Holland will win it now, but I think Germany will.
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
@Dr. Eddies Wingman - Agreed. That was not an especially over the top, or aggressive challenge. Neymar was just unlucky to have been badly injured as a result of it. And like I said before, I do more blame the ref, as if he'd taken control of the game a lot earlier, that challenge probably wouldn't have happened at all.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I guess I did quote them yes because of that. But I also wanted to inform you about it. Yep, I disagree with your opinion and I don't recognize what you say about knees and backs. Not like this.
Perhaps they wouldn't have cared if it was a less known player indeed. But I still would have liked them to care about it.
Perhaps they wouldn't have cared if it was a less known player indeed. But I still would have liked them to care about it.
TheSeventhSonRoberto
Rockin in Rio
Out of the four teams left I'm rooting for the Dutch. They haven't won a World Cup. I love it when a new country joins that elite group of winners.
Sara
Not even Wensleydale?
Yep. They are clearly now, the greatest football nation to have never lifted the trophy. I'd love to see them finally do it.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
That's why I hope they win too. After three lost finals it would be nice to see them win.
When it comes to who I think will win, I think Germany look more solid. Brazil, Argentina and Holland have all looked dependent on one player (Neymar, Messi and Robben, respectively). Germany seem to function even if one of their top players is having a bad day.
As for Brazil's other players lifting their performance to compensate for the absence of Neymar: It can work if they actually have a plan B, tactics-wise. Extra effort is not going to help them score goals if they don't have a plan for exploiting the weaknesses Germany may have (the only one I can think of is a slight lack of pace in defense). But Scolari is experienced, he probably has a plan B. He must have.
When it comes to who I think will win, I think Germany look more solid. Brazil, Argentina and Holland have all looked dependent on one player (Neymar, Messi and Robben, respectively). Germany seem to function even if one of their top players is having a bad day.
As for Brazil's other players lifting their performance to compensate for the absence of Neymar: It can work if they actually have a plan B, tactics-wise. Extra effort is not going to help them score goals if they don't have a plan for exploiting the weaknesses Germany may have (the only one I can think of is a slight lack of pace in defense). But Scolari is experienced, he probably has a plan B. He must have.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I disagree a bit here. It depends on what you mean with dependent but we have several people who have shown strength. Sneijder, Kuijt, Van Persie (although the latter didn't do that well in the last two matches).
I think Brazil could do better without Neymar. Now, not all pressure is only on him. It needs to come from the whole team now.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Well, what I meant is that everything Holland does in attack seems to involve Robben. Every attack is either created by him or goes through him. Against Costa Rica, Holland's attack seemed stagnant and without creativity, and it was up to Robben to create space. Maybe not as much as with Messi for Argentina, but I haven't seen much proof that this Dutch side can attack with sting without involving Robben. Yes, other players in the team have done well, but take Robben out of that Dutch side and they will be passing the ball around for 90 minutes without penetrating Argentina's defense once.
(Come on Holland, prove me wrong please
)
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Well, who won the corner that led up to Sneijder's goal?
Edit: Joking. I don't remember who won that corner. And I know very well that Robben wasn't involved in every single goal Holland have scored. But especially against an established defense (i.e. not during a counter-attack or immediately after winning the ball) Robben seems to be the only player who can trouble the defenders.
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Forostar
Ancient Mariner
He sure can do that very well indeed. Here some stats:
Daley Blind: 3 assists (0 goals)
Wesley Sneijder:2 assists (1 goal)
Arjen Robben: 1 assist (3 goals)
Memphis Depay: 1 assist (2 goals)
K-J Huntelaar: 1 assist (1 goal)
Janmaat: 1 assist (0 goals)
De Guzman: 1 assist (0 goals)
Van Persie: 0 assists (3 goals)
De Vrij: 0 assists (1 goal)
Ferj: 0 assists (1 goal)
Daley Blind: 3 assists (0 goals)
Wesley Sneijder:2 assists (1 goal)
Arjen Robben: 1 assist (3 goals)
Memphis Depay: 1 assist (2 goals)
K-J Huntelaar: 1 assist (1 goal)
Janmaat: 1 assist (0 goals)
De Guzman: 1 assist (0 goals)
Van Persie: 0 assists (3 goals)
De Vrij: 0 assists (1 goal)
Ferj: 0 assists (1 goal)
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Add that Robben has to be given credit for Huntelaar's goal (he won that penalty, deserved or not).
Maybe my view of this issue is a bit coloured by the last match (against Costa Rica), because that was where the tendency was the strongest. Against Spain, all the attacking players looked lethal.
Maybe my view of this issue is a bit coloured by the last match (against Costa Rica), because that was where the tendency was the strongest. Against Spain, all the attacking players looked lethal.