USA Politics

Lost in a lost world said:
But we do have to he careful that the left looks more like Sweden or Canada and not the USSR at any time during its existence or Barcelona circa 1936.
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Lol, Sweden is mini USA at this point. What "Left"? We're going triple down economics, New Public Management, deregulations, privatizations, the world's most extreme school system with tax funded corporate owned schools and less and less social programs.
 
Lost in a lost world said:
It’s “socialist” by American standards.

I suppose the idea most of us here have of Sweden may not reflect its political reality.

Okay, we’ll stick with Canada. I’ve yet to hear a Canadian complain much beyond nuanced politics there.
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There's massive difference between Sweden 2025 and Sweden 2005 and even more compared to the late 80s. I think the public perception of Sweden is that of how it was in the late 80's and 90s (when the transition started to happen).

You know that the education system here is broken when Trump has flaunted copying key aspects of it.
 
Lost in a lost world said:
I’ll also say this, and this may just be part of my American background.

Keeping political beliefs out of it, a lot of people I’ve known who identify as conservative have been fun to hang around as long as we have music, interest in history, sports, or something else in common.

I don’t mean far right conspiracy theory conservatives or MAGA people but the more libertarian kind who don’t hate anyone but want fewer regulations. They’re, in my opinion, misguided politically but also aren’t usually heavy political thinkers. The few who are more academic are focused on economics, foreign policy, etc, but are still tolerant on civil rights.

Lots of old school conservatives I know do not like the big spending bills the current Republican party are pushing through and think the tariffs are dumb. A few have expressed to me that they feel their political party has been hijacked and they’re waiting it out until it goes back to the way it was (sometimes they mean pre-W years). They still won’t vote Democrat, though.
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Conservatives as a whole did not used to be inherently bad people. Sure, I disagree with them on a ton of things and I think they are completely wrong on a lot of things. But we're not dealing with Conservatives anymore, we're dealing with MAGA.

MAGA is a brain-rot, brain-dead cult. It has turned American politics into a joke. Conservatives, by default, are now MAGA because they refuse to break party lines even when their party has been ripped apart from the inside out by the Cockroach King. Giving people the benefit of the doubt whom you disagree with used to be the norm. It's what made political discourse possible without treating those with different party alignments like literal enemies. Anyone who still votes Republican even while disagreeing with Trump is just as responsible as the MAGA cultists.

This is what we've been reduced to.
 
MrKnickerbocker said:
Conservatives as a whole did not used to be inherently bad people. Sure, I disagree with them on a ton of things and I think they are completely wrong on a lot of things. But we're not dealing with Conservatives anymore, we're dealing with MAGA.

MAGA is a brain-rot, brain-dead cult. It has turned American politics into a joke. Conservatives, by default, are now MAGA because they refuse to break party lines even when their party has been ripped apart from the inside out by the Cockroach King. Giving people the benefit of the doubt whom you disagree with used to be the norm. It's what made political discourse possible without treating those with different party alignments like literal enemies. Anyone who still votes Republican even while disagreeing with Trump is just as responsible as the MAGA cultists.

This is what we've been reduced to.
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Pretty much this. The conservatives who disagree with MAGA and abstain from voting? Fine, I can respect that. Disagreeing with MAGA and lamenting that the GOP has been hijacked but still voting for them? That's an incredibly shitty thing to do and directly responsible for all the stunts Trump and his admin are pulling.

I don't doubt that you can have a nice evening with most of them, as long as you stay clear of politics. But I also can't respect anyone who votes for Trump, especially when they claim to be disappointed with the direction of party but do nothing to hold them accountable in any way.
 
Another thing that frustrates me:

For whatever reason the entire left is supposed to stand trial for every single fringe opinion by some random activist. One person says some wild shit and now the entire left is generalized and accused of sharing that opinion.

On the other hand you have stuff like the recent Jubilee episode, where one of the right wingers outright admits to being a fascist, got fired from his job and now raised thousands of dollars, with the help of people who share his views. And that's just one example, the overall point being that the right is never held to the same standard. We're supposed to treat them all as individuals, a courtesy that is almost never extended to the left.
 
I agree with the notion that the far right is on the rise in both the U.S. and Europe. And I don’t believe this is happening solely because of some covert pro-russian propaganda—though that definitely plays a role. I think certain aspects of preceding policies simply weren’t very wise or sustainable. For example: uncontrolled immigration.

I also agree that, for now, the far left poses a smaller threat. But I firmly believe that if those ideologues ever came to power, they’d cause just as much damage as the far right. While the far-right archetype tends to resemble barroom thugs, the far left often comes in the form of educated professors—and they’d bring in communism in a heartbeat if given the chance.

I absolutely agree that the U.S. healthcare system is bad—frankly, even frightening. I definitely prefer the European model, and I can’t understand why, after all these years, the U.S. still hasn’t managed to create something more similar. I suppose it comes down to the fact that the U.S. is a more extreme version of capitalism.

I’ve always viewed Sweden as a very socially oriented country—maybe that’s an outdated perspective, but I still find it appealing. In fact, the entire Nordic region—Denmark, the Netherlands, and so on—strikes me as quite attractive in terms of societal models.

One more thing: so far, there’s no better alternative to Western democracy—especially its European version. None. Unless, of course, you’d rather live in places like russia, China, or Cuba. And so far, South American countries haven’t exactly carved out some inspiring new path either—there are too many problems there.

The West must hold on to what it has. And yes, improve it. But veering into extremes—whether far right or far left—would be a grave mistake.
 
Azas said:
One more thing: so far, there’s no better alternative to Western democracy—especially its European version. None. Unless, of course, you’d rather live in places like russia, China, or Cuba. And so far, South American countries haven’t exactly carved out some inspiring new path either—there are too many problems there.

The West must hold on to what it has. And yes, improve it. But veering into extremes—whether far right or far left—would be a grave mistake.
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just a couple of things.

Neither Russia nor China is a communist country anymore. In fact they haven't been for a long, long time.

Regarding Cuba I disagree. Their woes are mostly brought upon them by the US and the west with the trade embargo and what not. Not that it would be perfect, but definitely it wouldn't be in the state it is today.

The Netherlands is not part of the Nordic countries and in many ways it is one of the most right, "not extreme right" countries.

Denmark is not exactly the left's golden child either. Especially considering the way they treat immigrants. Finland has gone far right and just a couple of years ago I was talking with a Greek living in Sweden and he said to me a lot of Swedes vote far right, I think it was over 10% ag the time, but they just don't admit it.

Small wonder these countries appeal to republicans. Europe is being Americanized very fast.
 
And one more thing. The social structure you admire was mostly put inplace by leftists. The right is just trying to dismantle/privatize them, but it's not easy to do. If they had their way Europe would be America now.
 
Aggelos said:
Denmark is not exactly the left's golden child either. Especially considering the way they treat immigrants. Finland has gone far right and just a couple of years ago I was talking with a Greek living in Sweden and he said to me a lot of Swedes vote far right, I think it was over 10% ag the time, but they just don't admit it.
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10% my ass. Try around 20% this last election, but the Moderates and the Christian Conservatives have a slice of that voter category as well. The Sweden Democrats, far-right, are in a coalition with the current government since 2022 and have pushed through a lot of policy.
 
Yax said:
10% my ass. Try around 20% this last election, but the Moderates and the Christian Conservatives have a slice of that voter category as well.
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that conversation was 2-3 years ago, maybe a bit more. But of course you know better being Swedish and all. It's a shame though, Scandinavian countries used to be model countries for a lot of people. Maybe we had just idealized them, don't know.
 
Aggelos said:
that conversation was 2-3 years ago, maybe a bit more. But of course you know better being Swedish and all. It's a shame though, Scandinavian countries used to be model countries for a lot of people. Maybe we had just idealized them, don't know.
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Things were definitely better in some ways a few decades back, less good in other ways. But the way I see it, MAGA and Trump have paved the way for dedemocratication. This current government are playing a few hands out of the Trump playbook. Good old USA has showed its western companions that you'll do fine; you don't have to stand on law and norms.
 
Yax said:
Things were definitely better in some ways a few decades back, less good in other ways.
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I think that for us, living on the other side of Europe, maybe we just saw the things we wanted to see and this is why we thought it was "paradise".
 
Aggelos said:
Neither Russia nor China is a communist country anymore. In fact they haven't been for a long, long time.
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russia has never denounced its past and continues to operate with an imperial mindset. China, too, remains authoritarian. It’s not just communism that’s vile—authoritarianism in all its forms is deeply troubling.
Aggelos said:
Regarding Cuba I disagree. Their woes are mostly brought upon them by the US and the west with the trade embargo and what not. Not that it would be perfect, but definitely it wouldn't be in the state it is today.
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Are the elites of Cuba actually doing anything to improve the lives of ordinary people? Nada. The regime is focused entirely on staying in power—they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their citizens.

As for the Northern European countries I mentioned, it wasn’t about which political party runs them—they just strike me as generally attractive and well-functioning societies. I can’t say the same about Southern Europe—Greece, Spain, and Italy. The nature is stunning, no doubt, but I tend to see those countries as more prone to flirtations with communism. Mea culpa if that’s a stereotype—I don’t mean to insult anyone, but that’s how I perceive it. The further you are from russia, the less you seem to grasp the true vileness of its nature. Just my opinion, of course.
 
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Azas said:
russia has never denounced its past and continues to operate with an imperial mindset. China, too, remains authoritarian. It’s not just communism that’s vile—authoritarianism in all its forms is deeply troubling.

Are the elites of Cuba actually doing anything to improve the lives of ordinary people? Nada. The regime is focused entirely on staying in power—they couldn’t care less about the well-being of their citizens.

As for the Northern European countries I mentioned, it wasn’t about which political party runs them—they just strike me as generally attractive and well-functioning societies. I can’t say the same about Southern Europe—Greece, Spain, and Italy. The nature is stunning, no doubt, but I tend to see those countries as more prone to flirtations with communism. Mea culpa if that’s a stereotype—I don’t mean to insult anyone, but that’s how I perceive it. The further you are from Russia, the less you seem to grasp the true vileness of its nature. Just my opinion, of course.
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i agree regarding authoritarian regimes. but it takes many forms. america is the same these days. Regarding russia and china they just mask their different form of capitalism under the guise of a system that cares for the little people. in their current state they are much worse than they used to be.

it's funny you think greece is prone to communism, since we never, ever had a communist government. And I mean never.

regarding cuba, as i said it is far from perfect, but i disagree with you.
 
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