Exactly, I’m 31 and buy both records and CDs. I bought the deluxe CD, but probably won’t go for the vinyl of The Mandrake Project. I think @Rob77 meant to refer to Gen Z-ers
Well I am pushing 47 so does that make me Gen X?
Apparently it is Gen Z then Gen Alpha.
But hipsters buy vinyl apparently..... regardless of age?
Defining generations: Where Millennials end and Generation Z begins
Pew Research Center now uses 1996 as the last birth year for Millennials in our work. President Michael Dimock explains why.
www.pewresearch.org
Iron Lurker
Ancient Mariner
I was born in 1965, latest year one is considered Gen X. Which means I've been labeled "Boomer Lite." But TicTok is a vapid cesspool Idc what anyone else says. I'm also tired of hearing/seeing "who buys CDs/DVDs lol?"
Dick Brucinson
Dave Sustaine
Great album, I bought it in all three formats and gave it a listen only now since I had no time any earlier. Love Sonata and Eternity. And the very cool thing: I will meet Bruce tomorrow and will have all my three copies signed. However, I think the Deluxe CD edition is rather unnesscessary as it has nothing more to offer than just a few comic pages, compared to the regular CD. The vinyl looks sweet though.
However, I think the Deluxe CD edition is rather unnesscessary as it has nothing more to offer than just a few comic pages, compared to the regular CD. The vinyl looks sweet though.MindlessPieces
Educated Fool
Probably because the fans want fast and complex metal, where as the critics are used to critiquing all sorts of music, not just metal.
Plus, it seems many fans are just simply overly critical. Worried about whether they can hear a lisp in a 65 year old cancer survivor, worried about a mix of 10 years ago vocals and present vocals, things that many people who just enjoy music don't care about.
I think when some of the fans get used to the album and stop trying to pick up on every little flaw, I think perhaps they will like the album more.
Iron Lurker
Ancient Mariner
We at Maidenfans tend to nitpick at just about anything and everything. Someone was even critical about the size of Bruce's wedding band for Crissakes lol
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
I disagree with your framing. I can only speak for myself, but 1.) I mostly listen to music that isn't "fast and complex metal" (or metal in general) and 2.) my issues with the album isn't "a lisp in a 65 year old cancer survivor". The album has fundamental issues that are valid to be discussed and trying to paint anyone who doesn't adore it as simply being an overly critical fan is disingenuous.
The mix is a mess. The drums sound digital. The vocal performances are all over the place and recorded over multiple decades. The acoustic guitars sound like demos. The transitions in multiple songs sound haphazardly copy/pasted.
My issue is with the compositions themselves and the feeling that not enough time was spent on actual composing and arranging. Criticisms are just as valid as adulation. You are free to disagree, but please don't dismiss the critics just because you disagree with what they're saying.
daan
Educated Fool
For me it's a good album with 8 songs ranging from great to fine, one "meh" track and one that is a total miss. I'd say it's pretty much Tyranny level overall. The two albums have different strengths but I guess I'll end up enjoying them at a similar level after recency bias goes away. It may sound ridiculously obvious, but what I like the most about this one, is that it gives us those classic Bruce vocal melodies that I love. There's a strong musical idea in almost everything he does on this album. It's his vocals that make the songs work, not riffs or chord progressions.
Many Doors to Hell and Fingers in the Wounds are clear standouts. Mistress of Mercy took a bit of getting used to but it's great as well. Face in the Mirror is a nice little ballad with quite a memorable chorus. Not among my favourites, but I like it. Going back to the singles, Afterglow might actually be the best one and Rain on the Graves grew on me a lot, it's a fun change of vibe.
My biggest problem is the poor production. It’s pretty muddy and artificial at some points. Second issue is that some of the songs feel underdeveloped. For example Resurrection Men - I enjoy this track a lot, I really do, but it has potential for something better. Shadow of the Gods is even more underdeveloped. There’s some interesting stuff there, but in this form the track is a bit boring. The only track I don’t like at all is Sonata. I shouldn't be surprised to read it was improvised to some extent, because it totally sounds like it and that’s its weakness. It’s way too meandering and shouldn't have made it to the album IMO. In general, the album slows down at the end with essentially 3 ballads in a row. The first half of the album is paced perfectly, though.
As for Eternity - it’s ironic because the final version still sounds like a demo! This is the track where the lackluster production hit me the most. However, I think the chorus is better than the Maiden version (doubled vocals sound fantastic) and the short repetition of the title at the end is probably the most epic little moment on the whole album for me. I also like the addition of ethnic instruments and the solo section is very cool. So despite all, the song is still one of the highlights.
Many Doors to Hell and Fingers in the Wounds are clear standouts. Mistress of Mercy took a bit of getting used to but it's great as well. Face in the Mirror is a nice little ballad with quite a memorable chorus. Not among my favourites, but I like it. Going back to the singles, Afterglow might actually be the best one and Rain on the Graves grew on me a lot, it's a fun change of vibe.
My biggest problem is the poor production. It’s pretty muddy and artificial at some points. Second issue is that some of the songs feel underdeveloped. For example Resurrection Men - I enjoy this track a lot, I really do, but it has potential for something better. Shadow of the Gods is even more underdeveloped. There’s some interesting stuff there, but in this form the track is a bit boring. The only track I don’t like at all is Sonata. I shouldn't be surprised to read it was improvised to some extent, because it totally sounds like it and that’s its weakness. It’s way too meandering and shouldn't have made it to the album IMO. In general, the album slows down at the end with essentially 3 ballads in a row. The first half of the album is paced perfectly, though.
As for Eternity - it’s ironic because the final version still sounds like a demo! This is the track where the lackluster production hit me the most. However, I think the chorus is better than the Maiden version (doubled vocals sound fantastic) and the short repetition of the title at the end is probably the most epic little moment on the whole album for me. I also like the addition of ethnic instruments and the solo section is very cool. So despite all, the song is still one of the highlights.
MindlessPieces
Educated Fool
Yeah, that was probably the strangest post I've read in a very long time. But then again I don't wear jewelry, my wedding ring sits in a box somewhere. But some people love jewelry so I guess they look at other people's jewelry with much more interest than I do. If you'd asked me whether Bruce wears a wedding ring, I wouldn't have been able to tell you the answer.
But the other thing that bugs me about this forum is when people learn the names of the songs and then next minute we get big long posts talking all about those songs as if people have actually heard them. Oh, "Blow up your wife" Yeah that's a real banger, lots of blast beats, a frantic and explosive solo in the middle, and then a sombre guitar melody outro.
It's like a bunch of over excited 5 year olds with overly active imaginations and no restraint.
Then those people actually listen to the song, and go on and on about how it is different to how they imagined. LOL!
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Uh, there are only a couple of users who do that (and yeah, I find it quite weird as well. A title says nothing about the content of the music, look no further than Fučík's March Of The Gladiators) and they didn't listen to the leaks. The rest of the people who were talking in detail about the songs did so, because they did hear them and gave their honest impressions.
MindlessPieces
Educated Fool
LOL, I didn't say everyone.
You are entitled to express your opinions, you are entitled to not like the album, the songs, certain aspects etc.
It's a free world and everyone is an individual and has different likes and picks up on different things.
There is nothing wrong with disliking this album, for whatever reason.
Drums sound perfectly fine to me. i don't like the drums in St Anger and I don't like the drums in X Factor. But here they are absolutely fine to me.
You have a problem with them, that's fine too.
I have no issues with the vocals at all, they sound great and magestic to me. Love them. I really think Bruce is a great singer. I'd love to write music with him, and have him sing on my songs.
I have no problems with the way any of the guitars sound, and I don't mind abrupt transitions, actually I like abrupt transitions. Like in Ressurection Men, my favourite song off this album.
But I hear what you are saying. Certain things that I either don't notice or don't care about are getting in the way of you enjoying the music. It's a fair enough comment. But thankfully for me, I don't hear these things or they just don't bug me, or I actually enjoy them e.g. the transitions.
I can't understand how a person can ascertain that not enough time was spent on something when they have no idea how much time was spent on something. It's kinda like people calling a song a filler, as if the band don't like the song, didn't spend much time on it, but just put it in so that they could provide 1 hr of music. These critisisms are based on nothing other than pure imagination.
If you don't like a song, then just say so, if you don't like a composition then say what about it you don't like.
But to say the artist didn't spend enough time on it, well, tell me. How much time did the artist spend on it? and in your opinion, how much time should have the artist spent on it?
I don't have problems with people criticising music.
I kinda laugh when people criticise the length of a song, or how much time they imagine an artist spent on a song, or how fast or slow a song is.
I kinda cry when people criticise a 65 year old cancer survivor for having a lisp
I shake my head when people complain about whether vocal takes are a mix over 10 years, especially when I listen to those songs and they sound perfectly fine to me.
That's just me. I thank the gods that these complaints many have, have no meaning to me.
But if you are going to freely complain about things, please don't get all butt hurt when others complain about your complaints.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
All fine and well, it's subjective after all. There is no "correct" interpretation.
Not quite what I meant. The things I mentioned before are general criticisms with the entire album. My (and I only speak for myself) issue with many of the songs themselves is that I think they are weak compositions. It's not the details getting in the way; it's the fact that I severely dislike Resurrection Men or Rain On The Graves. Or that Sonata is a bloated and boring mess. Purely talking about songwriting, not some arcane and vague details that person A might hear but person B might not. But again, this is entirely subjective.
Let me quote what exactly I wrote:
"My issue is with the compositions themselves and the feeling that not enough time was spent on actual composing and arranging."
I specifically mentioned that it evokes the feeling. I didn't assert a claim of fact.
With that out of the way, if you read the interviews about the album you'd think that they worked on these songs for years. The latest interviews have confirmed that they didn't and that the work was done in the last couple of years.
Feel free to read my in-depth thoughts about the songs and my issues with them here.
I explain why I think that many songs were hastily cobbled together and one of the more elaborate compositions (Shadow Of The Gods) was written almost 20 years ago.
Lastly on that topic, I'm a songwriter too (though I'd obviously never compare myself to Bruce or any professional artist). I'm aware how much work writing, composing, arranging, recording, mixing and mastering a song is. Many of the compositions on the new album are very simplistic. There are barely any riffs let alone solos. The amount of instrumental sections is kept to a minimum. So yeah, I'm confident in saying that to me it seems that not enough time was spent on the music and that the comics caught most of Bruce's attention.
No one is getting "butt hurt". You're just setting up strawman argument after strawman argument, so don't be surprised that someone is calling you out.
The length of Sonata is criticized because it's a boring slog for many.
No one criticized Bruce for having a lisp. Perun even said that it might be compression fuckery that's at fault and not Bruce himself.
There are multiple songs where you can hear that recordings from 2014 and 2022/2023 were used in the same exact song. If you can't make out that the first verses from Eternity Has Failed are identical to the Maiden version but that the chorus features Bruce's current voice then I don't know what to say. Almost bragging that you are unable to hear incredibly obvious things isn't a flex, but you do you I suppose.
Good for you that these complaints "have no meaning to you", but your opinion is just as subjective as anyone else's too. Sorry to say, but there's nothing special about your opinion (nor about mine or any other opinion for that matter).
Please engage with what people are actually saying in good faith instead of these constant mischaracterizations.
Black Bart
Ancient Mariner
In "Fingers in the Wounds", hearing Bruce sing the word "oyster" ("Take a pearl from an oyster and feed it to swine" in the chorus) always reminds me of his commercial for the British tube (more particularly, the Oyster Card). I can't find the original version, but it can be heard here (at 0'32):
Plus, I've also stumbled upon this curiosity:
Plus, I've also stumbled upon this curiosity:
Last edited:
Jeffmetal
Ancient Mariner
One thing about Sonata is that it starts out of thin air, like a portal is opening with that synth effect and the song is totally ad lib with minimal guidance from click tracks or whatever and Bruce is not only singing there, he's expressing the storytelling and is clear his Peter Hammill's influence, totally unruled, allowing for spoken like moments, introspection, screams and yells, not necessarily melodic and in tune. I find it odd that a few people bashing the song, say they like Van Der Graaf Generator! It should, at least, makes one connecting it to Hammill's style, 'cos Bruce is, clearly, approaching it.
Some people won't like it anyway, in anytime, but, those who really know Bruce, can grasp where he intended to go with this album, which is revive the no labels, no compromise 70's way of making albums, despite the production value, which I have some issues, too, like some weak/generic guitar tones and the triggered drums, which could've made it all for the better if the drum sound had been organic, more real (sounding like a demo isn't particulary making it more original). Anyway, it is a very good album.
.
Some people won't like it anyway, in anytime, but, those who really know Bruce, can grasp where he intended to go with this album, which is revive the no labels, no compromise 70's way of making albums, despite the production value, which I have some issues, too, like some weak/generic guitar tones and the triggered drums, which could've made it all for the better if the drum sound had been organic, more real (sounding like a demo isn't particulary making it more original). Anyway, it is a very good album.
.
Last edited:
MindlessPieces
Educated Fool
I love Resurrection Men, it's terrific. LOL. Rain on the graves is much better without watching the video., love the chorus, don't like the laughing.
I really find Sonata interesting. Like the story, like the pining, like the spoken vocals. Don't find it boring at all.
I don't understand what people mean when they say a song is bloated. I guess they prefer short songs.
Even song writing and structure is subjective. I like songs with multiple parts, I like significant changes in a song, i like embellishments, I like a journey of emotion.
sure
Nah, I've never had that assumption. The ideas have been created over a decade, an idea here, an idea there. But that doesn't mean he's been working solidly for 10 years on each song, polishing it, fine tuning it, trying many things and picking the best idea. I think that's an unrealistic expectation.
Personally I think a person is better to sit down for a solid period and write an album, rather than write a bit then wait a few months and try to get back into the grove and feeling of the song, it will come out peacemeal rather than organic and natural.
It is a worry when an artist says they have been working on songs over 10 years, not a delight about having something super polished.
Maybe what you call "hastily cobbled together" could be a product of a piecemeal writing spanning a decade, over thinking things, spending too much time and losing the organic feel, and flow. Who knows?
This isn't an Iron Maiden album. Songs don't have to have solo's or instrumental sections. Most don't.
I love good solos and good instrumental guitar sections. But by no means to I think songs MUST have them and are poorly constructed if they don't.
You do know that my first post certainly wasn't about YOU. and even my second post wasn't mostly about you. The only time I critiqued you was with regards to your claim that they didn't spend enough time on a song.
I don't find it boring at all.
People have been criticising the lisp in this thread.
Who cares? I certainly aren't listening for it, and I don't care.
I'm not bragging, I'm just stating factual things. It's not something that makes me better than you. It is just something I don't care about.
Hang on, my opinions are gold, everyone else's are shit! We all know that.
Jer
A window to the west, a blazing star above
+1 for moxie!
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
We should never forget that record companies pay a good amount of money to have ads on the magazines where those reviews are published and that is the main reason why those magazines still exist.
I used to naïvely believe the reviews I would read on metal magazines. Then I met someone who used to edit one of them. We became friends and I learnt from him how things worked, from small bands having to pay an amount of money to be interviewed, to record companies buying ads that would guarantee excellent reviews for their artists.
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Yeah, that's your opinion and I never said you aren't allowed to have that. I was stating my opinion, so to counter with "but I love it!" is kinda weird, not gonna lie.
Exactly, and that's precisely what is missing for me. I linked my review where I explained the issues in detail. Did you read that?
You didn't, but plenty of other people did because Bruce all but said that there was work done throughout a decade.
That supports my point, doesn't it? That there were ideas from literal decades recently (as confirmed in one of the latest interviews) collected and formed into an album. There isn't any "over thinking" apparent in the music and it gives me the impression that there wasn't enough thinking involved.
No one said anything about this being an Iron Maiden album. Bruce's other albums feature exactly those mentioned things. Even Skunkworks which isn't metal and which is my favorite of his albums does feature that stuff. Not once did I say that songs were poorly constructed because they were lacking a solo. Please respond to what I actually write, not whatever you imagine I wrote.
Which is my subjective opinion, something I'm entitled to
Nice but irrelevant. Wasn't talking about you.
The lisp got mentioned specifically in a question about compression, it was NOT a criticism. Could you provide a link to said criticism?
I care. Plenty of people care. A lot of people who like a cohesive product and not a verse from 10 years ago and a chorus from 2 years ago which gives a lot of listeners whiplash. No one cares about if you care or not. If you don't then ignore it, there's no need to barge in and shout down the discussion other people have by insisting how little you care. Good for you, this isn't about you though.
And that's good and well, but plenty of other people do. If you don't care that's your right, but you don't get to impose your opinion on others.