Official Star Wars Thread

Seen it again, this time in 2D and it's really a much better option, 3D just doesn't have any merits for me. Also, was a way better experience overall, because I knew what's gonna happen and I could focus on details I missed. People were mostly quiet today (most people go to 3D screenings so it was half empty). Even during the premiere, the biggest noise was when
Chewbacca/Han, Leia, R2D2 and Luke showed up. Biggest laugh was Kylo Ren going batshit insane (the 2nd time, when those two stormtroopers slowly backed away :D)
But overall, no one really spoke when they shouldn't have spoken or anything. That usually happens during afternoon showings, kids rarely go in the evening.
 
So, I finally saw it.

I liked it. The way it mirrored ANH was at first funny, then disconcerting, but then it became so absurdly defiant I actually loved it. I really liked both Rey and Kylo. He's really something new for a villain. I also liked the meta aspect of him (the movie actually acknowledging him trying to be like Vader, copying the mask etc.) No silly moments. Well, Threepio was annoying (but then again, he always is - I never quite understood how everyone can hate Jar-Jar and close eye on him).

On the other hand, just as I expected (and feared) - it was a tad too safe. I mean, I kind of appreciate the prequels more: they were bold and controversial and broke the fanbase into bits, this is... safe. Good, great even, but safe. This is Disney creating another part of a veeeery big franchise. But I liked it all the same.
 
I just saw it. I liked it.

Rey must definitely be Luke's daughter. Daisy Ridley is going to be everywhere now. She'll be the English Jennifer Lawrence. It's good having a female lead character who actually does something, unlike Padme in III who stared out a window the entire time. The end scene with Druid Luke on Orkney was a bit confusing. Why does he need his dad's lightsaber back? He lost it in IV then made a new one. Where did the First Order come from? Who the hell is this Supreme Leader guy?

I guess there's a lot of stuff to learn about in VIII and IX
 
Why does he need his dad's lightsaber back? He lost it in IV then made a new one.
The way I read that scene was that the lighsaber is a token of Rey being worthy of becoming a Jedi. I mean - she had to be someone special to obtain it. (He lost it in V, by the way ;))
 
My opinion is that VIII is going to explain the big geopolitical stuff. Much like IV, this movie didn't tell us about the grand reaches of the politics. It gives us a sense that the First Order is not as strong as the Republic, so it had to build a superweapon in secret to even the odds.

How Luke's lightsabre survived the events of V is likely going to be very important. I don't interpret the final scene as Rey giving Luke his lightsabre; more like she is showing him she has it.
 
The spoiler-hysteria that's been all over the internet these past days is making me frustrated. I'm actively looking for spoilers, and it's hard to find them! I'll see the film tomorrow, I think...

So, I finally saw it.

I liked it. The way it mirrored ANH was at first funny, then disconcerting, but then it became so absurdly defiant I actually loved it. I really liked both Rey and Kylo. He's really something new for a villain. I also liked the meta aspect of him (the movie actually acknowledging him trying to be like Vader, copying the mask etc.) No silly moments. Well, Threepio was annoying (but then again, he always is - I never quite understood how everyone can hate Jar-Jar and close eye on him).

On the other hand, just as I expected (and feared) - it was a tad too safe. I mean, I kind of appreciate the prequels more: they were bold and controversial and broke the fanbase into bits, this is... safe. Good, great even, but safe. This is Disney creating another part of a veeeery big franchise. But I liked it all the same.

Great to hear. A balanced and sane review for once... I've mostly came upon full-grown-men-crying-like-children-reviews up to this point. I haven't heard of anyone who didn't already like the prequels saying anything else about them, but there's a small chance the safe choices here might give a spark of hope for the prequels getting some appreciation for what they tried to do, at least. Either that, or the fanbase-split might be beyond reconciliation and the new film's acknowledging of the "faults" of the prequels may only further strenghten the dislike. (Whatever camp you subscribe to, you surely must agree that Disney has a lot of fans to anger if they take that path.)

Padme in III who stared out a window the entire time.

To be fair, she did set up the Rebel Alliance with Mon Mothma & Co, but those scenes were deleted sadly. In retrospect, the film would probably have benefited from having that subplot, pacing issues aside.

Probably a great film for PlayClassics people. I'll go myself somewhere between Christmas and the new year.

That, it seems to be. Judging by Marvel, I don't agree with the idea that we'll more adventurous films in spin-offs/late installments either. It's just business from now on.
 
I read something very cool today:
It's confirmed there's Ewan McGregor's voice in Rey's vision! That's very interesting. Is it possible she's related to Obi-Wan? That would be weird, but if so, his spin-off makes even more sense. Another scenario I can think of is that she's going to meet his force ghost at some point and this was foreshadowing.
Besides, did you know Daniel Craig is in the film?
EW.com reports he's the stormtrooper that Rey uses mind trick on. That's so cool :bigsmile:
 
A lot of people say the movie relies too heavily on A New Hope, and that's actually kind of nonsense. Yes, one of the main plot points revolves around a ANH-style thing (Starkiller Base vs Death Star) but that was shunted quite thoroughly into the background by the primary triple stories of self-discovery. In terms of emotional tone, I really felt this film leaned far more towards Empire than anything else, though not really. It has a different, more interesting narrative than a standard Campbellian arc. It involves the story of two heroes and a villain that are intertwined through chance and happenstance, not one young man's voyage of discovery to his power. For example, the mentor didn't die (because Han Solo was not their mentor) to propel the plot. We get flashback hints that Rey was one of the new Jedi that Kylo Ren is supposed to have destroyed - the last Jedi, perhaps. If she has a Campbellian arc awaiting her, it will be in VIII, not VII.

None of these new characters are doe-eyed innocents like the traditional Campbellian hero that Luke embodied. Each of them has their own unique backstory. Finn was a nameless Stormtrooper. Sure, he didn't want to fight anyone, but he was trained to do so. He had seen the elephant. Rey was some sort of indentured servant, with no illusions as towards the cruelty of the galaxy. Poe Dameron is a skilled combat pilot. Possibly the most innocent character was Kylo Ren, not innocent in terms of actions (for he is a murderer and a traitor) but innocent in terms of understanding the ramifications of his actions.

Lots of people are saying this movie is safe and that's silly. There's a superweapon. There should always be a superweapon. And the plot point is more interesting because that superweapon has been used as a Macguffin to weaken the Republic, so that the Resistance and the First Order are on more of an equal footing. This movie took very large risks, such as relying on Rey and Finn and Kylo Ren to drive the story. Does it hearken back to the previous films? Sure. Name me a sequel that doesn't. It should. But Han Solo doesn't drive the plot. Luke Skywalker isn't even in the damn film. Leia has a handful of lines, and it's mostly expository dialogue.

JJ also took a big risk in making this movie personal. There's very little expository dialogue about what is going on in the galaxy, and we find out only enough to ensure we understand the stakes for our individual characters, without really understanding what is the deal between the First Order, the Resistance, and the Republic. He leaves that for other movies and directors to extrapolate. Why is the Republic funding a Resistance? Is there some sort of peace treaty between the First Order and the Republic? A neutrality pact? Is the First Order a small sect or a large group of planets? All sorts of interesting political questions that haven't been even looked at, let alone resolved. Star Wars has always involved galactic politics, even in ANH, and JJ shied away from it here.

The amount of nostalgia in this film is the same as that which was in the prequels, and I'm fine with it. I was fine with Han Solo dying, because he died to introduce a new villain. I'll be fine if they blow up the Millenium Falcon (which, if they haven't considered, they really should).

In the end, I just really, really, really like this movie. It didn't recapture the childlike glee I remember from watching the original series as a kid. It was something more than that. It was aggressive, new, modern, but still visibly, emotionally, and viscerally Star Wars. It is an excellent film if you don't understand a lick of the original stuff, because while the original material is treated with a sort of reverence, understanding none of it is needed to get what is happening here. And I think that's a testament to how well JJ made this film.

I trusted him, and I was right.
 
My opinion is that VIII is going to explain the big geopolitical stuff. Much like IV, this movie didn't tell us about the grand reaches of the politics. It gives us a sense that the First Order is not as strong as the Republic, so it had to build a superweapon in secret to even the odds.

How Luke's lightsabre survived the events of V is likely going to be very important. I don't interpret the final scene as Rey giving Luke his lightsabre; more like she is showing him she has it.
I wonder if Kylo Ren (I'm going to call him that) is the one who discovered it (he told Finn that the lightsaber belongs to him) and then felt he was rewarded sufficiently for it, thus pushing him towards the Dark Side.

Following on from what I said yesterday about strong female characters, Rey is arguably a better character than Leia. In the original films Leia is often involved in the action but she's never the hero where as Rey kicked Kylo Ren's ass.
 
Remember this 2014 image?

star-wars-episode-7-droid-hand.jpeg


J.J. and his games... :p
 
When was this not the case with Star Wars?
Prequels were far less business than The Force Awakens. It's understandable, though, because TFA had to gain trust of the fanbase and sell the upcoming movies. That being said, the fact something is business, doesn't automatically mean the film has to be bad.
 
Prequels were far less business than The Force Awakens.

Looking back, it seems like that. Compared to what it is now, it was low-key. But at the time, it was the biggest marketing campaign ever, and it seemed absolutely ridiculous at the time.
 
The prequels were at least 50% about selling new toys. How is that less business? At least Disney wants to sell me movies. Really good movies.
 
It's less business because Lucas made a film he really wanted to make. With basically no fan service.
 
The prequels were at least 50% about selling new toys.

Case in point: Had Lucasfilm ever been concerned with selling the films, we'd have several Peter Jackson-esque 30-DVD boxes of the Star Wars saga by now. But they were never interested in creating enough original content for this.
 
It's less business because Lucas made a film he really wanted to make. With basically no fan service.
Know what? I admire Lucas for that, I really do. And while I am no huge fan of the prequels, I am glad Lucas got to make the movie he wanted to make. Unfortunately, the movie Lucas wanted to make was not a film that people wanted to love, unlike his first outing, Star Wars, which was a great compromise in terms of budget, technology, and story ideas.

But if you think that it wasn't at least half about getting more Star Wars merch going, then you're mad. That made Lucas rich, and let him do what he wanted to do and expand ILM. The merch and movies gave him the money to expand and increase the capacity and abilities of ILM and be at the forefront of digital graphics. And ILM is still the leader to this day. Look at how gorgeous The Force Awakens was, and the trailer for Warcraft. That shit looks grand yo.
 
But if you think that it wasn't at least half about getting more Star Wars merch going, then you're mad.
Half? That's too much! ;) I hope I'm not too naive, but I believe prequels were like 80% about completing Lucas' vision. He loved making these films. Merch helped making the whole thing profitable. I don't buy the idea of toys being any major reason for prequels to be made... Merch is just milking it (and why not?). Btw. I have to grab How Star Wars Conquered the Universe book at some point. I've heard it's very good and perhaps it sheds some light on things like that.

As for The Force Awakens and its fan service... I've been thinking about this a lot and I'm starting to be less angry about it than I was after I walked out of the cinema. I mean in reality, where probably millions of people were discouraged by the prequels, TFA had to be what it is. They had to do everything they could to show that the contemporary Lucasfilm knows what's Star Wars and how to make it. Personally, as a prequel fan, I didn't need that, but I understand it had to be done to gain trust of the fanbase. J.J. pulled off an extremely difficult task to set this all up, so despite I don't find the film perfect, I couldn't respect his work more. That's probably the best we could get for now (except the bloody Starkiller!!!). I hope that after another throwback - Rouge One - is out, Episode VIII will be something new for real. There's no excuse for it not to be now...

Anyway, I'm seeing The Force Awakens again tomorrow. Can't wait. I feel like I'm going to see it for the first time... Without any strong emotions.
 
On top of that, I have no doubt that JJ made the film he wanted to make too.

You're going to have a hard time finding major blockbuster movies that aren't heavily influenced by business decisions. The fact that this new Star Wars even got made is a pure business move, I understand that. However, I think Disney is smart enough to let the creative minds do their thing without interfering too much. Hiring people like JJ Abrams and Kathleen Kennedy to oversee this new rebranding is proof of that. These are people who love Star Wars and know how to satisfy their audience. Letting the business of it all affect that is just unnecessary. The movie is going to make money no matter what. Sure maybe Disney told JJ Abrams that there needs to be a character that will sell a lot of toys and the response was BB8. But you know what? BB8 is awesome in the movie and has an actual personality. I think that's a good compromise.

The next movies will be as adventurous as a Star Wars movie can be. It's important to remember that the initial idea for Star Wars is pretty cut and dry, it's the EU that made it much more complicated than it needs to be and honestly I think that has influenced how people set their expectations for the new movies. Star Wars is a simple story and will probably continue to be that way, but we'll still see more new ideas and ways of telling that story as they make more. We're already seeing that. Rogue One is going to be a Star Wars heist film, probably closer to Ocean's 11 than The Odyssey. Who thought we'd ever see something like that on the big screen?
 
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