The Talisman

[LogJam]

Well, I can see how you would find the singing annoying Forostar, but personally I love it.

I noticed you mentioned that at the start Bruce is trying to emulate an old man. I would have to disagree. It seems to me like he is going for a more spoken-word, poetic angle, with a layering of mysticism. I find it quite effective in setting up the feel of the story and the rest of the song. You can almost imagine it as the final calm of the sailor's thoughts before the voyage goes to hell.

I also particularly love this section:

'We run from evil tongues rash judgements selfish men
Never to be seen on these shores again.'

The vocal variation as the backup vocals take precedence (I don't know the technical terms but that's what it seems like to me) are magical, and Bruce's pause before 'again' also adds a lot of depth and character to the vocals.

So, once again I can see where you're coming from Forostar but I have to disagree 

 

[Forostar]

'We run from evil tongues rash judgements selfish men
Never to be seen on these shores again.'

I like that part as well.

 

[LogJam]

Awesome 

So we at least agree on something 

 

[The Mid-Distance Runner]

Foro, I respect your opinion. As a musician myself sometimes I believe simple is king and in this case Maiden have created an amazing song. To me it proves that Janick is part of Maiden.

My opinion may change many spins down the track but at this stage I look forward to hearing each of the last five songs as much as each other and I am relieved that Janicks solo in this song are completely suitable.  I recall someone on this sight advise the Janick works best when he slows down, such as in Lord of the Flies. Well this is another example. Mind you, his solo in The Alchemist has made me just as happy.

Plus the imagery of The Talisman fits the music. I now wonder if its about the Irish leaving the potato famine. Potato and corn on the one album...maybe TFF is the album for vegetarians.

 

[Perun]

Re: The Talisman - an alternative point of view

Well Foro, I respectfully disagree (as so often ).

First the intro. Bruce tries (on purpose) to sing like an old man with some particular accent. Even if I might understand the purpose, I dislike it. The weird thing is that currently I am working on some project myself, which also features an "old" voice (done by a 35 year old friend of mine), but that's not sung but spoken. Maybe the way of singing annoys me as well. It sounds a bit ridiculous, like an old man trying to sing for the first time. I have to laugh a bit about it. Later, this laughing turns into something close to terror.

I really like the way he sings in the intro. It sounds very eerie, and what I like mostly is how he is not trying to drag notes, but sings it straight to your face (a bit like Navigate the Seas of the Sun).

Con-stant-ly these same freaking notes. 22 times! First of all, I find it very repetitive.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Secondly, it doesn't feel right. A strange note. Maybe Bruce is trying to impersonate a sailor who is in terror, and this is how he would have sounded. Despite the marvelous empathy Bruce created, I find it hard to bear.

I'm going to agree with you here: The high notes do sound a bit strained. On the other hand, I do feel the terror of a sailor in a storm there.
But in the middle, Bruce does have a few great melodies, in the prechorus. And I also like the chorus a lot.

I do think that this song is not going to be played live, because I guess Bruce would be struggling a lot with the high notes evening for evening. On the other hand, you never know. I also thought the same thing of The Legacy.

I probably love the rest of the album more than you guys.

Is that a bet? It had rather not be, for your sake.

 

[The Mid-Distance Runner]

I read an interview in a local sydney paper this week where Bruce said he wants to sing The Talisman live. He was so psyched about this song as well as Coming Home. I really don't know if they'll play The Talisman though, cos like The Longest Day, it could be a real struggle for Brucie.

 

[Forostar]

@Mid Distance: Oh noooo ...  

@Per: It's not only that these notes sound strained, it's the combination with the feeling I have that it sounds like a wrong note. Off-key, or dissonant, or at least: wrong. My 2 cents of course.

sings it straight to your face (a bit like Navigate the Seas of the Sun).

Stylewise I can agree with that, but Navigate has imo still a nicer vocal melody and -rhythm.

Sounds familiar, doesn't it?

Ha, yes. It's the same amount. There's a few more lines in The Talisman but he doesn't do that note in all the lines.

Is that a bet? It had rather not be, for your sake.

Ha!
*Runs to stereo and plays TFF for the next 6 months without interference*

 

[Perun]

I'll be posting a lengthy (and you know what that means ) review of it shortly.

 

[Forostar]

Looking forward to it. I choose to split it up in the various song topics. Done only 2 by now. The Gers tracks.

 

[____no5]

Re: The Talisman - an alternative point of view

Apart from the fact that I find the music unoriginal, and somewhat boring and uninspired, especially the short instrumental parts later on (not the solo part), I have even more problems with the vocals.
...
First the intro. Bruce tries (on purpose) to sing like an old man with some particular accent. Even if I might understand the purpose, I dislike it. The weird thing is that currently I am working on some project myself, which also features an "old" voice (done by a 35 year old friend of mine), but that's not sung but spoken. Maybe the way of singing annoys me as well. It sounds a bit ridiculous, like an old man trying to sing for the first time. I have to laugh a bit about it. Later, this laughing turns into something close to terror.

Hmmmm I wonder if the above consists of an offense good enough for planet Ban 

Users may not dislike The Talisman.  Violating this rule is considered a serious, bannable offense.

 

[Forostar]

Well, when I play The Isle of Avalon, and Starblind and then this ... , such decrease in awesomeness (more than any other Maiden album) is hard to comprehend. Avalon and Starblind are so f**king good, really.

 

[____no5]

Yeap all songs are (very) good!

Regarding what you told about Talisman that will never be played and how it's difficult to be sung,
I remind you that's one of the 5 songs that Bruce would like to play live.
So at least for the second, he seems very confident for doing it.
Also it may lead that these that you've mentioned about his singing, have been done 100% intentionally due to his theatrical approach that makes Bruce so unique 

 

[Forostar]

Yes I realize it was done intentionally, and I realize that this song might be played live. Probably instead of one of the other (more) brilliant epic tracks. Damn.

Foro, I respect your opinion. As a musician myself sometimes I believe simple is king

Don't know what's your definition of simple, but I do like simple songs in which the vocals don't sound as bad (in my point of view as I explained). E.g. Running Free, Flight of Icarus, you name it.

... Janick works best when he slows down, such as in Lord of the Flies. Well this is another example.

This sounds more like Fear of the Key.

 

[____no5]

Re: The Talisman - Think Twice, Foro

I see some hidden haiku here 

Ri(me), storm, winds, ropes.
Off dark -none's there.
We soak praying.

Four stormy spirits, four hit.
Just I.
Birds we ban, many.

Spoiler

Riding the waves and the
storm is upon us.
The winds lash the sails but
The ropes keep them tight.
Off in the distance a
Dark cloud approaching.
None could imagine what
There Was to come.

....

As we ride the rough seas,
As we soak from the ocean waves,
I just hope for all our lives
And pray that I survive.

Four ships are lost in the
Stormy conditions.
The spirits of the sunken crews,
Their phantoms follow us.

......

Four leagues and ten and we
Hit storms again.
We just can't get away from
The eye of the storm.

The birds outsoar the raging storm
But we cannot escape it.
Abandoned earth that we now crave
Is manyleagues from safe.

 

[Cap Maronis]

I love this song, and it's my 2nd favorite on the album (behind Isle of Avalon) but really hurts this one, moreso than probably any other song on the album... I feel like Bruce is trying to fit too many words into too small of a place at times.

I mean it's not like Isle isn't wordy either, but I don't know it doesn't seem to have the same inundation feeling as this one does. Maybe it was an aesthetic choice, but whatever.

I think I wish there was more of an anchor in terms of the lyrics besides "westward we saaaaaaail"

I feel like "There's no more going back, no there's not a second chance" works so well as pre-chorus that it might of been able to be reused.

But whatever, it's still my 2nd fave.

 

[snake plissken]

Not sure what my favourite song on the record is but this is certainly close.

 

[Poto]

One of the best songs on the album. I love the chorus. And I love the way Bruce sings it high, and then goes a bit lower..

 

[The Mid-Distance Runner]

Dear Foro,

I don't think Brucie sings as an old man at all in the intro. He sings like a weary world beaten human escaping his oppressive country. An old man fleeing persecution seems a little like George Castanza racing the kids to the fire escape.

Simple is king referring to the repeated guitar riffage in comparison to the two preceding tracks which are the pinnacle of guitarmanship and prog. IMO TT is a good changeup...although I'd probably prefer Starblind live...at this moment.

 

[Stan]

I love the part where the solos start... 

 

[LooseCannon]

Nick's drumming on this track is FUCKING FANTASTIC. It really sounds like you're on a ship being tossed from side to side. It rolls in at you from all sides on my 5.1 system, it's incredible.