USA Politics

I'm not going to the U.S for either business or pleasure any time soon.

Me and the wife used to spend a significant portion of our income visiting Florida every year. We last went April '25 and even then made sure to have our passports and ESTAs on us at all times, we seriously considered cancelling altogether. Things have become exponentially worse since then.

I will not support a country that is descending into facism. We will spend our money elsewhere until the US regains some semblance of sanity. Though I fear this change is one that the country will struggle to pull back from.
 
Oh, FFS — yeah, let’s punish every American because enough nutters in 7 states tipped the balance toward Trump in the election. Outside my control, folks, and more calls to my already Democratic representatives in Congress won’t make a difference.

Cancel the U.S. leg of the Maiden tour? Should we have had Metallica boycott the U.K. after Brexit? Get off your goddamned high horses.
 
Cancel the U.S. leg of the Maiden tour? Should we have had Metallica boycott the U.K. after Brexit? Get off your goddamned high horses.
I get that is offensive to you, but your comparison is just nuts. The U.K. left the EU. Okay. Were they coercing, threatening and manipulating the rest of the world? Did they officially declare the EU their enemy which they would undermine? Did they attempt to annex, say, Iceland? You know what Trump is doing to you guys, and what he is doing to us. I try to avoid U.S. goods when I can, because everytime I buy something american, I feel bad because I get reminded that this administration and 30% of the population want to see me in the dirt and under Trump's and Putin's boots. They want to influence and undermine my domestic political system and dismantle the union which made us wealthy and better off. They have forever tarnished my opinion of the U.S. and the goodwill I held.

Which reminds me, time to get off Firefox and install a European browser instead.
 
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Maiden should cancel the US leg of the tour. They won't but they should.

In fact, all bands should cancel their US tours.
Many smaller bands are. Not necessarily as a political statement, but because they simply can't afford touring the US anymore. Trump's tariffs aren't helping either.

I get that is offensive to you, but your comparison is just nuts. The U.K. left the EU. Okay. Were they coercing, threatening and manipulating the rest of the world? Did they officially declare the EU their enemy which they would undermine? Did they attempt to annex, say, Iceland? You know what Trump is doing to you guys, and what he is doing to us. I try to avoid U.S. goods when I can, because everytime I buy something american, I feel bad because I get reminded that this administration and 30% of the population want to see me in the dirt and under Trump's and Putin's boots. They want to influence and undermine my domestic political system and dismantle the union which made us wealthy and better off. They have forever tarnished my opinion of the U.S. and the goodwill I held.

Which reminds me, time to get off Firefox and install a European browser instead.
Well said. The US, the super power with the mighties military in the world, is burning bridges with all allies and activel turning hostile against us. Whether we like it or not, America is becoming an enemy of the West. We are justified in sitting on the highest of horses when everything we warned Americans is coming true and not only are US citizens being arrested, tortured and outright killed, foreign sovereign nations are being threatened by Mango Mussolini.

-----

Also, boo-fucking-hoo at those trying to solely blame the voters of the swing states. This mess is on the entire nation. Maybe start holding conservatives accountable instead of "reaching across the aisle"? Maybe stop focusing all hostilities exclusively on leftists instead of being endlessly charitable to fucking neo nazis? People on the left were warning about everything that's happening, but moving the Dems further right was more important I guess.

What needs to be done is for the population to finally show some balls and do something. So many Americans over the years have projected an image of strength and rugged individualism. So many platitudes about how important the 2nd Amendment is. Instead we have millions of Americans cheering as the country falls to fascism. They celebrate when people on the left are murdered by the Gestapo. What needs to happen is a general strike; money is the only thing anyone cares about. Strike them where it hurts. But barely anyone in that nation is interested in doing something like that. Look at Serbia, for example, to see how other nations seize the moment to rise up.
 
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Also, boo-fucking-hoo at those trying to solely blame the voters of the swing states. This mess is on the entire nation.
The entire nation (and the world) are indeed covered in the same mess, but that doesn’t change the fact that the swing state voters fully determined the outcome of that election. And if my own state’s representatives and governor are all Democrats already, there is literally nothing else that I can do to positively affect electoral outcomes here, which is the only thing that can make a concrete difference in the end.

And my state is currently directly paying the price for those swing state voters’ folly, so your armchair preaching is even more distasteful than usual.

Maybe start holding conservatives accountable instead of "reaching across the aisle"?
How? With no electoral power there are only words left. Without cooperation from at least a tiny handful of Republicans, nothing with any teeth can be done, except theoretically through the courts, where attempts are already being made.

Good luck finding a veto-proof congressional coalition willing to pass legislation to try to rein in Trump on Greenland. It shouldn’t be hard, but with today’s Republican Party it would be impossible.

Maybe stop focusing all hostilities exclusively on leftists instead of being endlessly charitable to fucking neo nazis?
This is an invention of your own mind. No one is trashing the left to the exclusion of calling out the right — both things need to happen simultaneously so the left can look like a viable alternative to people considering dumping their local Republicans. No one will switch their vote as long as they still think the alternative is even crazier.

People on the left were warning about everything that's happening, but moving the Dems further right was more important I guess.
People on the left cried wolf (or racist) too many times on too many things for a significant segment of disengaged centrists to take their warnings more seriously than the pocketbook issues that were most immediately important to them. That needs to be fixed.

The Democrats need to look like a sane alternative to right-leaning centrists in swing states. Nothing you’ve proposed would accomplish that.
 
How? With no electoral power there are only words left. Without cooperation from at least a tiny handful of Republicans, nothing with any teeth can be done, except theoretically through the courts, where attempts are already being made.

Good luck finding a veto-proof congressional coalition willing to pass legislation to try to rein in Trump on Greenland. It shouldn’t be hard, but with today’s Republican Party it would be impossible.
I'm talking about how you deal with Trump supporters and voters, not about Congress.

This is an invention of your own mind. No one is trashing the left to the exclusion of calling out the right — both things need to happen simultaneously so the left can look like a viable alternative to people considering dumping their local Republicans. No one will switch their vote as long as they still think the alternative is even crazier.
I'm not talking generally. I'm specifically talking about how you behave in this thread. Without fail you treat Trump supporters with kiddie gloves or even outright validate their delusions, as long as you get to dunk on leftists (and me, because of your grudge) at the same time. The left isn't anywhere close as "crazy" as the right. The last decade has shown that a huge chunk of the country is comprised of massive hypocrites. Trump get's to violate the Constitution, while Obama was attacked for wearing a tan suit.
The fact that you still try to claim the left is anywhere even close to the fascists shows quite clearly where you stand. Scratch a liberal and all that.

People on the left cried wolf (or racist) too many times on too many things for a significant segment of disengaged centrists to take their warnings more seriously than the pocketbook issues that were most immediately important to them. That needs to be fixed.
Cute attempt to avoid saying the truth: The left was 100% right and predicted exactly what happened. US citizens are being abducted by the Gestapo for not being white enough, or are shot and killed, and yet here you are, still unwilling to admit the ones you find so annoying were right all along, and you'd rather deflect.

No one was falsely accused. A convicted felon (who's also a pedophile, let's not forget that tiny detail) is running the country with the help of literal fascists (Stephen Miller says hello). You have people from the administration use literal Nazi slogans (as in OG, 1940s Germany Nazis). You can go back in this thread and see when people warned of all these things. This delusion that people became fascists because they were called racist one too many times is just that: a delusion.

The left also kept repeating (including in this very thread) that Trump would be disastrous for the economy and explained in detail how Harris would be the better choice for people who cared about the economy. Yet facts didn't matter for a single second. It was all just vibes.
 
I'm not talking generally. I'm specifically talking about how you behave in this thread. Without fail you treat Trump supporters with kiddie gloves or even outright validate their delusions, as long as you get to dunk on leftists (and me, because of your grudge) at the same time.
Complete horseshit. I don’t often go off on the right on my own because you and a half dozen others already have that covered, and I thumbs up those types of posts that I agree with, and occasionally post something of my own if I have something new to add. I’ve repeatedly stated how awful Trump is in general, and how the vast majority of his policies are shit. At this point it’s just restating the obvious.

I do feel motivated to respond when there’s room for nuance that’s being completely ignored, or when there’s blatant hypocrisy on display from the left, because those things are less likely to be noted here. But your selective memory only files those posts away and not the others. Or maybe you still have me on ignore and just haven’t un-ignored the counter-examples. Either way, the problem’s on your end, not mine.

The left isn't anywhere close as "crazy" as the right.
Of course not, but they must appear that way to right-leaning centrists if those people were willing to hold their noses and still vote for Trump in 2024. That’s just the cold, hard reality, and the left desperately needs to fix their branding problem in the U.S.

The fact that you still try to claim the left is anywhere even close to the fascists shows quite clearly where you stand. Scratch a liberal and all that.
Except for the actual fact that I haven’t done this at all. This is an invention of your own mind. I have regularly challenged you to point to clear examples of this, but you can’t, because it never happened.

Cute attempt to avoid saying the truth: The left was 100% right and predicted exactly what happened. US citizens are being abducted by the Gestapo for not being white enough, or are shot and killed, and yet here you are, still unwilling to admit the ones you find so annoying were right all along, and you'd rather deflect.
What the fuck are you talking about? Where did I ever claim any of this shit or fail to “admit” anything? You’re just completely inventing stuff out of whole cloth here.
 
Complete horseshit. I don’t often go off on the right on my own because you and a half dozen others already have that covered, and I thumbs up those types of posts that I agree with, and occasionally post something of my own if I have something new to add. I’ve repeatedly stated how awful Trump is in general, and how the vast majority of his policies are shit. At this point it’s just restating the obvious.
It's not horseshit. Your comment history is public and the patterns are very clear. There are plenty of things you could say over the last months, yet the majority of your posts in this thread are responses directly to posts of mine. Curiously you don't do that to, say, Detective.

I do feel motivated to respond when there’s room for nuance that’s being completely ignored, or when there’s blatant hypocrisy on display from the left, because those things are less likely to be noted here. But your selective memory only files those posts away and not the others. Or maybe you still have me on ignore and just haven’t un-ignored the counter-examples. Either way, the problem’s on your end, not mine.
I do have you on ignore, but the forum software doesn't erase your posts. Whenever someone from the ignore list posts there will be a button to show said posts. That doesn't change what I said though, you mostly engage in this thread to call me out. At least be honest about it, don't make me go back through the thread and quote all the examples. I have better ways to spend my Saturday.

Of course not, but they must appear that way to right-leaning centrists if those people were willing to hold their noses and still vote for Trump in 2024. That’s just the cold, hard reality, and the left desperately needs to fix their branding problem in the U.S.
Sure, they have a branding problem. But the US also has a Nazi problem. There's a million things wrong with your country right now and if "wokeness" and the "mean left" are even close to your top 10, you're disconnected entirely from reality.

Except for the actual fact that I haven’t done this at all. This is an invention of your own mind. I have regularly challenged you to point to clear examples of this, but you can’t, because it never happened.
Look at the quoted pieces from my previous response to you. That's where it happened. You couldn't just say that the right has gone completely off the rails, that the country is descending into fascism just as the leftists warned, and that the left is objectively better than the fascists in essentially all metrics. You had to muddy the waters and push the narrative that the left is seen as crazy (crazier?) than the fascists. The only ones who hold that opinion are the fascists themselves because it benefits them. There is simply no comparison, and "centrists" who'd rather attack the left than literal fascists cannot claim innocence. You are just as much, if not more smug and arrogant, than those you accuse of said behavior. It's the inherent hypocrisy of projecting your own behavior and feelings onto the left, while the right is destroying your country.

The fact that you are taking the time to write multiple paragraphs to argue with me, but never do the same with Trumpers in this thread speaks volumes, buddy.

What the fuck are you talking about? Where did I ever claim any of this shit or fail to “admit” anything? You’re just completely inventing stuff out of whole cloth here.
I'm calling you out for not being able to admit that you were wrong. You just had to bring up the "boy who cried racist", despite not being completely irrelevant to the discussion, it was another thing that the left got 100% right. Otherwise you would've responded to the parts about Stephen Miller and the Nazi slogans.

Can you for once admit it and say that the left was absolutely justified and correct in its warnings about Trump, his admin and Project 2025, without backhanded comments? Without at the same time painting the left as being (perceived as being) crazy? Without ignoring that the fascists are much worse and literally killing US citizens? If you have a shred of integrity this should be easy for you.
 
It's by no means certain that Maiden will be allowed into the US at this rate (UK Subs, anyone?) Or they'd let them in but not the Krew, or let them in but then deport Bruce over an onstage rant at the first show or something (and then Trump would be onto Untruth Antisocial like a proverbial rat up a proverbial drainpipe, going "Iron Maiden, a MOST OVERRATED band with NO TALENT ...")

A vast array of previously unthinkable possibilities have ceased to be unthinkable ... :(
 
It's not horseshit. Your comment history is public and the patterns are very clear.
Yes, my comment history is public, which is why it’s so obvious you’re full of shit, because anyone can look at it and see just how wrong you are.

There are plenty of things you could say over the last months, yet the majority of your posts in this thread are responses directly to posts of mine. Curiously you don't do that to, say, Detective.
Because, as I’ve already noted, you and multiple other people already jump down his throat in those situations, and by that point I don’t have anything else to add.

I do have you on ignore
Then fucking ignore me already, even when I respond to your posts. Otherwise putting me on ignore is just performative strutting.

That doesn't change what I said though, you mostly engage in this thread to call me out.
Only because you paint this thread with so much nuanceless, one-sided verbal diarrhea that needs to be called out by sane left-of-center people.

You couldn't just say that the right has gone completely off the rails, that the country is descending into fascism just as the leftists warned, and that the left is objectively better than the fascists in essentially all metrics.
That’s because that’s only mostly true. Trump is most certainly a fascist, and the Republicans in Congress seem content to let him get away with most of his fascist folly, but I don’t think the average Republican voter has fascist ideals.

You had to muddy the waters and push the narrative that the left is seen as crazy (crazier?) than the fascists. The only ones who hold that opinion are the fascists themselves because it benefits them.
If the average disengaged voter actually believed this, Trump would have lost in 2024. But since Trump won, the Democrats must have looked even less appealing than a fascist who they thought might improve the economy. Think about that, and how deep-seated the Democrats’ branding problem must be for someone on the fence to still choose Trump in 2024.

You are just as much, if not more smug and arrogant, than those you accuse of said behavior. It's the inherent hypocrisy of projecting your own behavior and feelings onto the left, while the right is destroying your country.
Jesus Christ, I can’t hold a candle to you on either smugness or arrogance. Few people can.

I'm calling you out for not being able to admit that you were wrong.
What was I wrong about? You keep inventing this idea that I somehow claimed the left didn’t call out the right’s sinister plans in 2024, but I never did anything of the kind. You’re so busy trying to “other” me and dunk on me that you have no concept of what I’ve actually said and done.

Can you for once admit it and say that the left was absolutely justified and correct in its warnings about Trump, his admin and Project 2025, without backhanded comments?
There’s nothing to “admit”, and it wouldn’t just be “for once” for me to agree that these warnings were correct. When did I ever say otherwise?

And FFS, could you please just go away and stop shitting all over this thread that used to be much more civil before you showed up…? Your 30-day ban was like a deep breath of fresh air for everyone here. Now it’s just exhausting again, all thanks to you.

Or at least show some goddamned integrity and actually ignore me, rather than just proclaiming that you do, while still reading and responding to my posts.
 
Yes, my comment history is public, which is why it’s so obvious you’re full of shit, because anyone can look at it and see just how wrong you are.
Ah, the classic "no u!". Well then lol

Because, as I’ve already noted, you and multiple other people already jump down his throat in those situations, and by that point I don’t have anything else to add.
So you're saying, that without fail, you are always last to join the discussion? Even in the situations where you clearly interjected to offer far more charitable interpretations of his posts only for him to come out and say "no, I meant it exactly the way Vaenyr and the others interpreted it and even worse!" ? Fascinating ;)

Then fucking ignore me already, even when I respond to your posts. Otherwise putting me on ignore is just performative strutting.
It's an ignore function. It's a feature of the forum code. It doesn't give me notifications when you interact with threads I'm active in. There's nothing performative about it, from my point of view you simply don't have anything of value to add to most discussions, usually, but you're also quite often deathly allergic to admitting wrongdoing, even when you make definitive statements about things you are objectively wrong about. But sometimes, like in this occasion, it's fun to call you out on your bs. It's not that complex.

Only because you paint this thread with so much nuanceless, one-sided verbal diarrhea that needs to be called out by sane left-of-center people.
We have quite a few sane left-of-center people active in this thread. You are definitely not one of them lol. There are topics that require nuance but there are also ones that need to be addressed with a firm stance.

That’s because that’s only mostly true. Trump is most certainly a fascist, and the Republicans in Congress seem content to let him get away with most of his fascist folly, but I don’t think the average Republican voter has fascist ideals.
That is not what I claimed. But also, it's the classic Nazi bar anecdote. Trump is enacting fascism and the vast majority of his supporters are happy with what's happening. He has a die-hard fan base that will never let go, because to them politics is just team sports. So, if someone is fascist and certain people cheer them on, these people then are...? You can connect the dots, right? It's not just Congress that let's him get away with it. It's millions of Americans actively cheering him on.

That's why I said that you need to hold Trump voters accountable and make them feel that supporting Trump is not a valid stance. You gave to show them that their actions have consequences instead of coddling them. There is a lot you can do beyond calling your representatives. Whether you are willing to do more than those calls, well, that's another matter.

If the average disengaged voter actually believed this, Trump would have lost in 2024. But since Trump won, the Democrats must have looked even less appealing than a fascist who they thought might improve the economy. Think about that, and how deep-seated the Democrats’ branding problem must be for someone on the fence to still choose Trump in 2024.
The average voter is a moron and completely uninformed. There were millions of people who weren't aware on election day that Biden had dropped out. Your argument would only hold any validity if everyone had the same baseline of information, which is obviously not even close to being true. People voted for Trump because they thought he'd be better for the economy, because the average voter is incapable of looking back for more than a few months and thinks "life sucks, the current president is at fault", so they vote for the opposition. People didn't vote for him because progressives called racists, who acted like racists, racists.

Jesus Christ, I can’t hold a candle to you on either smugness or arrogance. Few people can.
You're in good company, buddy. We're sitting in the same boat ;)

What was I wrong about? You keep inventing this idea that I somehow claimed the left didn’t call out the right’s sinister plans in 2024, but I never did anything of the kind. You’re so busy trying to “other” me and dunk on me that you have no concept of what I’ve actually said and done.
Says the one who so often tries to dunk on me and spectacularly fails, like when you tried to claim ethnic attacks on Greeks don't fall under the umbrella of racism, despite Greeks being an ethnic group and thus fulfilling the criteria. Just to mention something recent.

There’s nothing to “admit”, and it wouldn’t just be “for once” for me to agree that these warnings were correct. When did I ever say otherwise?
Are you even reading what I'm typing or are you getting so hysterical that your literacy levels are dropping? I quite clearly explained what the issue with your framings of these topics are, how you always have to muddy the waters or include backhanded commentary against the left. You go out of your way to give credit to Trump for things you believe he did right, but you actively refuse to do the same with the left, not without false equivalences and jabs, lest anyone forget that the enlightened centrist is so obviously superior to the progressive mob.

And FFS, could you please just go away and stop shitting all over this thread that used to be much more civil before you showed up…? Your 30-day ban was like a deep breath of fresh air for everyone here. Now it’s just exhausting again, all thanks to you.
Nah, I'm here to stay :)

Also, that's not true either. The thread has been civil for the most part since my return. Detective blatantly lied in order to defend state-sanctioned murder, and people called him out on it. Other than that it's just been posts of folks being disgusted with what's happening in the US. In case you haven't noticed, it's not quite rainbows and sunshine over there. That sets the tone.

Or at least show some goddamned integrity and actually ignore me, rather than just proclaiming that you do, while still reading and responding to my posts.
Again, it's an ignore function, not a proclamation of me ignoring you. I don't know why this is so hard for you to grasp lol. When other folks, whose opinions interest me, quote your posts, I click on the little "reveal content" notice to see what made them respond.

To return to the topic that offended you so much:

Plenty of bands are cancelling their US tours. Not to "punish all Americans", which is a deeply childish notion, but because Trump's actions have made touring an economic impossibility for many of them. Because his Gestapo has turned entering the US and being in the country dangerous. People are rightfully afraid that they will be detained or arrested based on arbitrary bullshit decisions. The US is not an ally to the West anymore. It sucks for those Americans who didn't vote for Trump, but the rest of the world doesn't owe it to you to keep offering you the luxuries you took for granted. Your leader is threatening to annex Canada, Greenland and who knows what next. So yeah, time to get used to non-Americans being hostile to the US cause this is the reality we live in this moment.
 
I don’t see how U.S. security is affected by Greenland being part of the United States when Denmark is already in NATO.
But if it really does matter, then I’d expect Greenland to be sold, and be sold cheaply, during or after Trump’s time in office, whether under Republicans or Democrats.
 
I don’t see how U.S. security is affected by Greenland being part of the United States when Denmark is already in NATO.
But if it really does matter, then I’d expect Greenland to be sold, and be sold cheaply, during or after Trump’s time in office, whether under Republicans or Democrats.
That's the thing, it's not. Trump is just saying random shit. He simply wants to expand the US and have easy access to minerals.
 
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That's the thing, it's not. Trump is just saying random shit. He simply wants to expand the US and have easy access to minerals.

No it's not about minerals, it's about access to North Corridor, naval blockage of Russia. Not even about US security per se, its about blocking someone else's access to sea routes, same way that they are trying to prevent China's access to Pacific via allying with Taiwan. US foreign policy makers consider "national security" the rise of any country to a level that they could directly compete with them, where this is obviously an exaggeration and very narrow and imperialistic way to see things.

On the other hand, the rare earths panic is not about minerals, which there are plenty everywhere including USA, it's about processing. There is no way to substitute China in the next 20 years, not by any stretch of the imagination. Below is a great article from Substack that explains this well. Once you read that article you'll understand what anyone who says let's take the X teritory for its rare earths is either lying or doesn't know what he says.

How long can China play the «rare earths card» ?

Arnaud Bertrand 17 Oct 2025

This is probably the most important geopolitical question in the world right now: for how long can China play the “rare earths card”?

It’s now well established this gives China considerable leverage. For one thing the frantic state of panic of US Treasury Secretary Bessent over the past couple of days is a pretty big tell: he publicly insulted senior Chinese officials over the move, lobbied for “emergency powers” and said this was a Chinese attack on the “world” that would meet a “fulsome group response” from the U.S. and its allies. If that’s not Washington being rattled, I don’t know what is.

What seems to be the consensus view, because I’ve seen it mentioned over and over again, is that one of the main bottlenecks to break this rare earths stranglehold is environmental regulations. As the narrative goes, the West essentially regulated itself out of the rare earths business by imposing environmental standards that China simply ignored. And so, by implication, all it would take is the right regulatory changes and government subsidies and the problem is solvable within a few years or so, it’s mainly a question of political will to accept environmental trade-offs.

There is some degree of truth in that - rare earths processing can be very polluting - but this is otherwise very much magic bullet thinking.

The difficulty of breaking the rare earths stranglehold is far - FAR - more immense than mere regulatory adjustments. China’s dominance has much more to do with the scale of their manufacturing and the vertical integration of their supply chains, and as such breaking the stranglehold at this stage requires upgrading the West’s industrialization level comprehensively. We’re talking something requiring a complete makeover of the West’s socioeconomic structure, involving trillions in capital in investment - with profitability perhaps two decades away - as well as a profound upending of its education system. In short, a generational-level undertaking on an almost unprecedented scale.

You might be tempted to compare the efforts needed to the Manhattan Project or the Apollo Program - that’s mighty enough, right? - but that would actually be vastly understating it. The amount of efforts needed is more comparable to something like the Industrial Revolution itself than to any individual megaproject.

You don’t believe me, right? Surely I must be exaggerating! No way it can be that dramatic!

That’s why I wrote this article. To show you in details the absolutely titanic efforts that would be needed to break the stranglehold for just one of the elements on China’s list of export controls: gallium. And bear in mind when you read the article that it’s just ONE chemical element out of 21 under export controls, and that China’s export controls don’t only include chemical elements but also downstream products (lithium-ion batteries, superhard materials, etc.)

After finishing this article, I bet Bessent’s panic will feel almost understated to you.

What is gallium?
Gallium is not actually a rare earth: it’s a soft, silvery metal that would literally melt in your hand on a warm day. Yet it’s one of the most strategically important materials in the world today, as it’s - among other applications - foundational to the latest generation of GaN semiconductors, as well as modern AESA military radars that can detect targets at nearly double the previous range. A top Raytheon executive noted in 2023 that “GaN is foundational to nearly all the cutting-edge defense technology that we produce.”

China has cornered a staggering 98 percent of the worldwide primary low-purity gallium production, meaning it has near-total control over the material.
What would it take to produce 100 tons of gallium?
Let’s ask ourselves a simple question: what would it take to produce 100 tons of gallium? It’s not a huge amount: China produces 600 tons of it, with a production capacity of 750 tons so we’re talking less than 17% of China’s current production.

Understanding gallium production
Many people imagine gallium extraction works like mining any other metal: find a deposit, dig it up, add some chemicals, extract the metal. But gallium is fundamentally different - it’s not found as an independent ore but is recovered as a byproduct of aluminum production.

Think of it like juicing oranges: gallium is like the small amount of essential oil that clings to the orange peel. Without the juice factory processing massive quantities of oranges, you have no practical way to obtain that essential oil separately. You can’t just “mine gallium”- you need an entire aluminum industry running at scale to capture the trace amounts that emerge.
To understand the scale involved, consider China Aluminum Corporation (“Chalco”), the world’s largest aluminum producer: in 2022, they processed 17.64 million tons of alumina from which they refined 6.88 million tons of primary aluminum and finally extracted 146 tons of gallium - a ratio of approximately 1:47,000 for gallium-to-aluminum, or 1:120,000 for gallium-to-alumina.

Building alumina refineries and aluminum smelters
The ratios we just saw mean that, to produce 100 tons of gallium, you would first require a proportionate aluminum industry capable of producing 12 million tons of alumina and 4.7 million tons of actual aluminum annually. That’s your first step.

For reference China today has 60% market share of global aluminum production, India is a very distant second with only 3.5 million tons of aluminum (refined from alumina) produced in 2022-2023 (meaning the whole country produced only half the amount produced by Chalco, a single Chinese company) and the US produced less than 0.8 million in 2023.
So if the US wanted to become a big player in gallium, it’d first need to increase its aluminum production capacity almost 6 fold, from the current 0.8 million tons to the 4.7 million tons needed to produce 100 tons of gallium, which again would only make its gallium production less than a fifth that of China.

This involves building two types of factories: alumina refineries (which process bauxite ore into alumina) and aluminum smelters (which convert alumina into metallic aluminum through electrolysis).
Outside China, aluminum smelters costs about $4 billion per million tons of annual production, meaning we’re speaking about a $20 billion investment just for the smelters. Alumina refineries would add another $10 billion. So we’re looking at $30 billion in factory construction costs just to ramp up alumina production to the level required.

The energy challenge

There’s an issue however: convert alumina into metallic aluminum through electrolysis is extremely energy-intensive. Industry data shows that producing one ton of electrolytic aluminum consumes approximately 13,000-15,000 kWh of electricity.
The US currently produces 0.8 million tons of aluminum, so it would need to add another 3.9 million tons of capacity. How much electricity does that require? Using the lowball figure of 13,000 kWh per ton, it translates to roughly 51 billion kWh of additional electricity - flowing continuously, 24/7, 365 days a year. Aluminum smelters can’t simply shut down when power is unavailable; the molten metal would solidify in the electrolytic cells, destroying them.

What does 51 billion kWh mean? To put it in perspective, let’s look at America’s most recent nuclear project: Vogtle Units 3 and 4 in Georgia. These two reactors have a combined capacity of 2.2 GW and can produce approximately 17-18 billion kWh annually at full capacity. The U.S. would need to replicate the entire Vogtle 3 & 4 project three times to meet the 51 billion kWh requirement - essentially building six new reactors in three separate construction projects.

Cost wise, Vogtle 3 & 4 reached a final price tag of $36.8 billion after massive overruns from an initial $14 billion estimate. Three such projects would cost approximately $110 billion - and that’s before the $30 billion needed for the aluminum refineries and smelters themselves. Total infrastructure investment: ~$140 billion.
Timeline wise, construction on Vogtle 3 & 4 began in 2013, with Unit 4 finally entering commercial operation in April 2024 - nearly 11 years. Even with lessons learned and parallel construction (itself questionable given the shortage of qualified nuclear contractors and specialized equipment), a realistic timeline for three new Vogtle-scale projects extends to 2035-2036 at the very earliest.

And remember, again, that this $140 billion investment and 12-year timeline would yield just 100 tons of gallium annually - representing only 17% of China’s current production and less than 14% of their production capacity, which again is only ONE of the 21 chemical elements China applied export controls on.

The human challenge

Building the facilities is only half the battle, the greater challenge lies in finding the people to run them. U.S. manufacturing employment peaked at 19.6 million in 1979 but has declined to approximately 12.9 million by late 2024 - a loss of nearly 7 million jobs over 45 years. This isn’t merely about numbers, it also represents a fundamental erosion of the skilled industrial workforce.

And the challenge is that aluminum processing is a very worker-intensive industry. The reason is because aluminum cells are dynamic systems where conditions vary cell-to-cell and hour-to-hour, with operators making hundreds of small adjustments daily based on visual inspection, sound, and instrument readings - the kind of complex judgment calls that remain difficult to automate.
You just need to check the numbers in China, the country with the most advanced facilities and access to the latest automation technology: top still employ tens of thousands of workers for aluminum production. Chalco, which we spoke about earlier, employs 58,009 people to produce their 6.88 million tons of aluminum. China Hongqiao, the second-largest aluminum producer in the country (after Chalco), employs 49,774 people and produces approximately 6 million tons of aluminum annually.

So we’re talking ratios of about 8,500 people per annual million ton of aluminum, in the most advanced facilities in the world, with Chinese working hours and efficiency. Meaning that to add another 3.9 million tons of capacity, the U.S. would need to find at the very least 33,000 additional workers just for aluminum production. With all that entails: training skilled aluminum operators requires years of hands-on experience with high-temperature industrial processes, metallurgy, and complex equipment - not skills acquired through short courses.

And I’m not even speaking about the workers needed for the energy part: 800 permanent jobs were created specifically for the new Units 3 & 4 at the Vogtle nuclear station. Three Vogtle-scale projects would require approximately 2,400 additional nuclear operations workers—engineers, control room operators, maintenance technicians, and security personnel.
Exceedingly difficult to do in a country where the manufacturing sector already faces 1.9 million unfilled jobs by 2033, and where a significant chunk of the existing nuclear workforce is likely to retire over the next decade. America would need to spend years train 35,500 specialized industrial workers for this single gallium project - representing 17% of China’s production capacity for one element - while simultaneously backfilling retirements.

The industrial ecosystem challenge

It’s not just factories, energy and people - you need a complete industrial ecosystem.
Even if you have money to build factories, technology to build power plants, and the ability to find tens of thousands of workers, there’s an even more difficult problem: supporting facilities.
Industrial production is not an island; it requires a complete ecosystem.

For example, producing alumina requires bauxite, lime, and soda ash. The US doesn’t lack lime and soda ash, but bauxite mainly needs to be imported. You need stable bauxite supply channels and ports for transportation.
Producing electrolytic aluminum requires auxiliary materials like fluoride salts and carbon anodes - factories must produce these too. You also need highways and railways to transport them to the factory area.
Once products are made, they need to be transported to ports for export or to downstream chip factories and radar factories - this requires a very mature logistics network.
These supporting facilities aren’t as simple as building a few bridges or paving a few roads. They represent a nation’s industrialization level.

China spent 40 years building the world’s most complete industrial system from scratch. From bauxite mining to alumina and electrolytic aluminum production, to gallium extraction and purification, even downstream chip manufacturing - every link has mature enterprises and supporting infrastructure.
This gap in industrial ecosystem can’t be filled just by throwing money at it. It requires time, it requires accumulation over generations, it requires the entire nation to highly value manufacturing.

The market challenge

The last, and perhaps most critical, challenge is the question of the market.
Assuming the US somehow managed to overcome all the other issues: it has built 3 three Vogtle-scale energy projects, the 2 factories, found tens of thousands of workers and developed the ecosystem around it all, it still needs to sell the stuff - both the aluminum and the gallium.
Total US aluminum consumption runs approximately 4 million tons annually, yet as we saw producing just 100 tons of gallium requires 4.7 million tons of aluminum as an unavoidable byproduct. The entire domestic market couldn’t absorb this production: even capturing every aluminum customer in America would leave 700,000 tons of surplus metal.

International markets offer no solution. Global aluminum markets already face structural overcapacity and American aluminum produced at market rates with higher costs and wages couldn’t compete with China on price. So should the U.S. sell at a loss? What sustains the operation then? Would the US government subsidize the operations year after year, keeping the project running at a loss?
This all creates an economically irrational situation where producing a strategic material (gallium) requires maintaining permanently unprofitable industrial capacity (aluminum smelting). No market-based enterprise would undertake this voluntarily. All the more since, as we just saw this requires an initial investment of $140 billion.

What about substitutes?
You’ve certainly thought about it: “if producing gallium ourselves is such a massive effort, surely we can substitute it for something else?”

The problem is that material properties aren’t negotiable. Gallium Nitride semiconductors aren’t used because they’re trendy, they’re used because silicon physically cannot do what GaN does. GaN can handle 10x the voltage, operate at frequencies where silicon fails, and tolerate temperatures that would destroy silicon chips.

Think about it, if substitutes were viable, the Pentagon would already be doing it. The US military has known about rare earths vulnerability since at least China’s 2010 embargo against Japan. That’s 15 years to find alternatives. And yet here we are, with - again - a Raytheon executive stating that “GaN is foundational to nearly all the cutting-edge defense technology that we produce.”
And even if you could substitute gallium, you’d probably find yourself in the exact same place. A substitute that’s been mentioned is Silicon Carbide (SiC) but… China controls most SiC production too, and it doesn’t match GaN for the applications that matter most.

And even if perfect substitutes existed for gallium - which they don’t - you’d still face the same problem for the other 20 elements on China’s export control list. The strategy of “substitute everything” eventually crosses into absurdity. At a certain scale, “find alternatives for 21 strategically critical materials” becomes functionally equivalent to disputing the results of the Big Bang - you’re demanding that nature provide you with different fundamental building blocks than the ones that exist.

Conclusion

So how long can the “rare earths card” be played?
We just saw the titanic efforts that would be needed to simply produce less than a fifth of the amount of gallium that China produces:

-An initial investment of $140 billion
-Building 2 gigafactories and 3 large-scale nuclear plants
-Finding and training over 35,000 highly specialized workers
-Building the entire industrial ecosystem around it.

All for an operation that will never be able to compete with Chinese prices in global markets, and as such probably needs to be permanently subsidized by American taxpayers.
Take that and multiply it by 21, the total number of chemical elements on China’s export controls list (which again, is not the extent of it because they also have export controls on downstream products), and you start to grasp the strength of the “rare earths card.”
Another very similar element to gallium, also dominated by China and also on China’s export controls list, is indium, a byproduct of copper. Much like gallium, to break the indium stranglehold you’d to rebuild a complete copper industry chain - mines, smelting, chemical processing, electricity, transportation.

Do you start to understand Bessent’s panic?

This isn’t something that a mere Manhattan Project or Apollo Program can solve, this is something far more intractable: China’s advantage isn’t technological, it’s systemic.
We’re not speaking of discrete projects here, we’re speaking about something that’d require a complete societal stack - from how children are educated to how capital is deployed.
Consider what it takes to produce just one skilled aluminum smelter operator: first, a middle school student needs to see industrial work as a viable, respectable path - not failure to get into college. Then, they need access to a vocational school with up-to-date equipment and industry connections - schools the West mostly closed in the 1980s. Then, they need 2-3 years of training plus 3-5 years of on-the-job experience to become truly proficient. That’s 8-10 years from the decision point to competent operator. Now multiply that across 35,000 workers for this one element - then multiply by 21 elements, and multiply again all of this by all the supporting roles needed to build the facilities and staff the vocational schools.

China has this. In 2023, they had a total of 11,000 vocational schools nationwide with with nearly 35 million students studying at these educational institutions. It’s normalized, systematic, continuous. The West doesn’t just lack the programs - it lacks the entire cultural and institutional framework that feeds students into those programs. You’d need to rebuild that framework before you could rebuild the workforce.
Or look at capital allocation: building rare earth capacity requires accepting decade-long losses and twenty-year payback periods, extremely patient capital. Patient capital requires investors willing to accept long horizons. Long horizons require regulatory and political stability. Stability requires societal consensus that manufacturing is strategic. Consensus requires... we’re back to education, media, culture.

So how long can China play the rare earths card? Looks like the realistic answer is: that one is here to stay for a very, very long time.
 
I think you are severely underestimatimg Trump’s greed, stupidity and insanity. He personally took care of that 500 million from the venezuelan oil and deposited it in foreign banks. Most things he does is in part or fully contingent on personal gain and wealth hordering.
 
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