USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Opinions are usually based on some kind of information. Who are these "other people" who didn't get away with similar behavior to mine?
What are examples of conservatives or right wingers being banned for hostility and aggressiveness?
When have the mods stepped in to unfairly treat a conservative for doing stuff that I've done without facing similar scrutiny?
You have implied multiple times that the mods are lenient to me due to a political overlap, but how did you come to such a conclusion? Why do you think that's what's happening? Particularly when the mods have already said that they don't do stuff like that and seem to be just as confused as me about who exactly you're talking to.
I'd genuinely love to get an actual response that explains your thought process and hopefully mentions specific instances so that I can see what I've been missing, rather than simply reiterating that it's just your opinion. I want to understand where your opinion is coming from.
Magnus
Pica Serdica
Lack of imagination, I suppose.
As in, I couldn't really imagine another reason why that kind of, er, idiosyncratic behaviour would be tolerated for so long.
My fault, I hasten to admit.
By all means! Here it is, presented somewhat schematically, and disappointingly simple, I know (and my fault, again):
1. Non-Vaenyrs -> pissing fellow members off -> banned.
2. Vaenyr -> pissing fellow members off -> not banned.
3.
There it is.
Please don't hesitate to write back! This could go on and on, and with some luck, we could either achieve a Medal for Stupendous Boredom, or the first ever MaidenFans Vaenyrial Disease Award!
Or, we could move our friendly banter to the 1,000,000 thread? We could reach the goal in no time then! Everything for the cause!
Yours truly,
Magnus
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
No worries, I'm almost done. I simply want to understand your viewpoint, as I'm genuinely curious. No sarcasm, no pettiness, no biting remarks, I just want to understand better.
I'm pretty sure that the mods aren't quite happy with my behavior during the more heated moments either. Even if we are generally on the "same side", I'm definitely more extreme with my views. Do you think they are lenient because I'm on the left? Or better yet, do you think anyone who is progressive and on the left, who would behave as I have done, would also receive "preferential treatment" and avoid a ban, or is that somehow unique to me?
Finally, from what I gather you are well respected on the board and your opinions matter to many of the regulars. As I mentioned before, if you genuinely think that the mods have been to lenient with me feel free to raise the issue with them. If this results in me being banned from the topic or even the forum outright, then that's that.
Has this happened before? Do you remember specific examples? Maybe things were different before my time, since I haven't been a member on the forum as long as some other folks, but I'm not aware of something like that having happened. The mods, from some of the comments I've seen, seem to not have acted in such ways either.
I'm pretty sure that the mods aren't quite happy with my behavior during the more heated moments either. Even if we are generally on the "same side", I'm definitely more extreme with my views. Do you think they are lenient because I'm on the left? Or better yet, do you think anyone who is progressive and on the left, who would behave as I have done, would also receive "preferential treatment" and avoid a ban, or is that somehow unique to me?
As I stated, I simply want to understand where your view on this matter comes from. Though the "Vaenyrial Disease" is admittedly hilarious, well done lol
Finally, from what I gather you are well respected on the board and your opinions matter to many of the regulars. As I mentioned before, if you genuinely think that the mods have been to lenient with me feel free to raise the issue with them. If this results in me being banned from the topic or even the forum outright, then that's that.
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Sheriff_of_Huddersfield
Nomad
Since this is apparently a forever account, I’ll hop in with more feedback.
My position wasn’t extreme. In fact, my argument was for moderate politics focused on solving practical public policy problems rather than ideological polemics.
I get jumped on by this person, who apparently thrives on the attention and is pulling what I see as online troll moves designed to irritate people rather than engage in a discussion.
These included:
Outright incivility. We’re not even that far apart on opinion but wow, it’s zero sum ideology, innit?
Recursive demands for evidence, ignoring what was provided, and them providing none in return. More irritating is using that laugh emoji tag in a dismissive way when asked to back up what they’re saying.
Demanding attention even when not directly addressed and when I was talking with others.
When mentioned — whoa, look out, that person was mentioned. Holy shit.
Then, a milder echo of disagreement from Perun, a little bit of reasonable disagreement or balance from Mosh, a ton of sincerity from Judas and Azas and some agreement from others like Jer.
But holy shit, some snark from a few other people (Black Abyss thanks for the lesson on ambiguity in subject/predicate.).
When it got to where it was the “Sheriff vs. the unnamed one” thread and wasn’t even about the topic anymore (thanks for that revelation, Diesel 11), I realized it was pointless. I was the one who had been trolled.
Well played. Hat’s off. Another person chased off.
For my part, I could’ve had a much thicker skin. My general frustration with US Politics right now contributed to my cranky disposition.
MODERATOR EDIT: inflammatory content removed
My position wasn’t extreme. In fact, my argument was for moderate politics focused on solving practical public policy problems rather than ideological polemics.
I get jumped on by this person, who apparently thrives on the attention and is pulling what I see as online troll moves designed to irritate people rather than engage in a discussion.
These included:
Outright incivility. We’re not even that far apart on opinion but wow, it’s zero sum ideology, innit?
Recursive demands for evidence, ignoring what was provided, and them providing none in return. More irritating is using that laugh emoji tag in a dismissive way when asked to back up what they’re saying.
Demanding attention even when not directly addressed and when I was talking with others.
When mentioned — whoa, look out, that person was mentioned. Holy shit.
Then, a milder echo of disagreement from Perun, a little bit of reasonable disagreement or balance from Mosh, a ton of sincerity from Judas and Azas and some agreement from others like Jer.
But holy shit, some snark from a few other people (Black Abyss thanks for the lesson on ambiguity in subject/predicate.).
When it got to where it was the “Sheriff vs. the unnamed one” thread and wasn’t even about the topic anymore (thanks for that revelation, Diesel 11), I realized it was pointless. I was the one who had been trolled.
Well played. Hat’s off. Another person chased off.
For my part, I could’ve had a much thicker skin. My general frustration with US Politics right now contributed to my cranky disposition.
MODERATOR EDIT: inflammatory content removed
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MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I think that this, at least, we can all 100% relate to.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
Yes, yes and yes. And it is a shame. I have been following this thread since its inception, and in recent (ish) years, there are endless circles of arguments turning into fights rather than remaining arguments. It is tiresome. It wasn't always like this, though I suppose it just mirrors the shape the world is in.
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
Mate, I've been there. As you can see from my posts above, there are people here that I never want to see again and who rile me up like no-one else. As you can see from the thread, there are other people who have problems with certain members and being bigger chess afficionados than me, are more prone to keep playing chess with a pigeon. And you aren't even the first person to get dissuaded from visiting the forum altogether from the constant circlejerk - I remember certain members privately expressing their bafflement how SinisterMinisterX for example decided to leave the forum for this exact reason around the time of his reversion and that was years ago; I left several times for different reasons, but for the first time it was because of this, then just last Autumn I last went away for half a year, despite having been a member for over ten years, posting thousands of messages and knowing several people here by their real name (Magnus and Onhell, for whom I didn't have other contect, could tell you of my frustration that I expressed in way too long DMs).
Unfortunately, the forum has a significant bent, that much is true. I expressed my frustration at this many times to no avail so that's something people have to get used to, which I admit is annoying. Yeah, people who stray from the official party line tend to get a bit ganged upon, that is unfortunate. Still, if you put certain members on the ignore list and decide to stick to your guns, even these politics forums get manageable and these are the worst - the rest of the forum is really good, otherwise I wouldn't be visiting it for this long. Unfortunately, you can't put mods on ignore, but only rarely do you get in conflict with a mod in particular and since Loosey is currently somewhere away, the mod political disbalance is actually rather palatable at the moment, for what it's worth. Otherwise, you can click ignore with every other member of the forum and I'd recommend trying that to personalise your experience, so to speak and still give it a try. Even giving the politics thread a bit of a cooldown, for starters.
(For what it's worth, I think with Black Abyss Babe it must have been some kind of misunderstanding, she's one of the few people here I have on social media as well and literally never saw her behaving inappropriately in her life anywhere - maybe don't dwell on that, even if you feel you were slighted by her)
I get it if you want to take some time off, but although this development was unfortunate and must have tainted your view, don't succumb to that - as you yourself have noted, many people (and I'd argue, most) behaved in a decent manner towards you.
But then again, the fact that after everything you're being edited by a mod (which is something I've seen probably only once or twice in the 12 years I've been a member) makes me stare at the screen in stupefied disturbance and honestly, I don't blame you if you decide not to return.
Jesus fucking Christ can we finally let it go?
Yes, we mods are the Liberal Evil, we ban people for dissenting opinions and will only allow Prog Khmer posts. How many more pages do of this do we need?
Fuck's sake, this forum has become absolutely unbearable. It was bad enough before, but now I'm really looking into quitting. I will definitely take a leave now.
I'll be back for moderator duties when the tour starts, but for everything else, we'll see if I want to post here again.
Bye.
Yes, we mods are the Liberal Evil, we ban people for dissenting opinions and will only allow Prog Khmer posts. How many more pages do of this do we need?
Fuck's sake, this forum has become absolutely unbearable. It was bad enough before, but now I'm really looking into quitting. I will definitely take a leave now.
I'll be back for moderator duties when the tour starts, but for everything else, we'll see if I want to post here again.
Bye.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
(this is not my idea, but I'll throw it out there for folks to weigh in on)
Proposal to remove political discussions from this forum.
This is an Iron Maiden forum and, though off-topic discussions should be encouraged, I do not think that there is anything positive coming from these threads. No one is learning, no one is being graceful - we're all just mad and feeling attacked.
The only outcome of these threads existing is that people are leaving the forum (including moderators). This result is the exact opposite goal of a forum: to bring people together to engage in discourse.
Proposal to remove political discussions from this forum.
This is an Iron Maiden forum and, though off-topic discussions should be encouraged, I do not think that there is anything positive coming from these threads. No one is learning, no one is being graceful - we're all just mad and feeling attacked.
The only outcome of these threads existing is that people are leaving the forum (including moderators). This result is the exact opposite goal of a forum: to bring people together to engage in discourse.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
I think we should just do temporary thread bans as soon as things start to spiral. If you decide to participate in a politics thread, you accept the possibility that you will be subjected to a thread ban, regardless if you think it's warranted or not. If you aren't okay with that, then you don't post in the thread at all. Simple as that. It would hopefully lead to a more civilized discourse.
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
As someone who has more than once left the forum because of politics... yeah, people are leaving, either temporarily or for good, avoiding the politics thread or getting into repeated arguments and aggressive behaviour. So while I don't say yay nor nay, I'd say a proper and thorough assessment regarding what is the point (or more exactly, what are the benefits) of these threads is definitely warranted. Politics is something that is always contentious and the current era seems particularily grim. Obviously when people disagree here, there is currently an impossibility to remain civil, friendly, on track. On the other hand when there is no dissent, whether voluntarily or enforced (like thread banning disruptive members), what remains is a mere echo chamber which is also useless. I mean, I don't want a political echo chamber, left one such in the past, I certainly feel anyone can stroke their ego for their brilliant thoughts elsewhere. So ... what are the benefits? I'm genuinely asking.
____no5
Free Man
I don’t think thread bans are a good idea. Any bans should be voluntary — for example, members request to be banned from specific threads. Otherwise, imposing bans could create more resentment and worsen the atmosphere.
Personally, I value hearing different perspectives. I genuinely believe it’s enriching to exchange views, especially since we come from such diverse parts of the world. However, the challenge arises when politics enters the discussion — it often leads to heightened emotions and disrupts the overall tone of the forum.
Unfortunately, despite being a relatively small community, there’s already some lingering tension between members because of this. For that reason, I wouldn’t oppose a complete pause on political topics if it means preserving the goodwill and camaraderie that make this forum enjoyable.
Alternatively, I support a "Knicker Lite" idea: we could suspend political threads for nine months and see how that impacts the forum. It’s a reasonable compromise that gives us a chance to reset and reevaluate.
Note: I used AI to "improve" the wording. I think it shows here and there.
Azas
Major Noyance
Banning political threads would be a weak move. Can’t we handle democracy—even when it turns into shouting and spitting? Come on, it's just words and sentences. To me, it would feel like a kind of castration. Honestly, I’d be angry. Silencing political threads feels like putting Scotch tape over someone’s mouth. Relax. Take it easy. Just my opinion.
edit: Also, who really wants yet another Iron Maiden setlist—for the 10,000th time? Sometimes it’s better to brawl a little. We may curse at each other, but at the end of the day, we’re all Iron Maiden fans.
edit: Also, who really wants yet another Iron Maiden setlist—for the 10,000th time? Sometimes it’s better to brawl a little. We may curse at each other, but at the end of the day, we’re all Iron Maiden fans.
____no5
Free Man
I remember how upset you were when we banned them for a mere 3 days.
You know, it wouldn't be that bad, after the first shock whoever felt the need would find their way to more proper forums to discuss these kind of things.
Banning them for a few months would be an interesting experiment. What we have to loose?
MrKnickerbocker
clap hands
I don't disagree. And yet...
I think it has been proven that we can't. Because these are literally just people arguing and not listening. Ideally, people could separate these behaviors from other parts of the forum, but I personally believe that the vitriol spewed here has poisoned the rest of the forum. We're just treating every thread politically now.
Jer
'Til Tomorrow
It doesn’t seem like this was always an issue. To me it seems like we sometimes get an over-the-top provocateur or two who suddenly become very active in these threads, stirring up bad feelings, and eventually they wander off or calm down and things return to normal. Except lately they haven’t wandered off or calmed down, they’ve instead stayed long enough to make others leave.
I don’t see the point of shutting down the threads, though. Let interested people participate, and those who get too worked up by others’ comments should just steer clear of these particular threads and enjoy the rest of the forum. But this trend of people leaving the forum entirely based on their interactions with people in these threads is troubling, and it’s probably worth taking a look at why that’s happening. If you’re constantly having to invite people to put you on ignore, maybe your behavior is objectively a problem and not just a matter of subjective personal taste…?
I don’t see the point of shutting down the threads, though. Let interested people participate, and those who get too worked up by others’ comments should just steer clear of these particular threads and enjoy the rest of the forum. But this trend of people leaving the forum entirely based on their interactions with people in these threads is troubling, and it’s probably worth taking a look at why that’s happening. If you’re constantly having to invite people to put you on ignore, maybe your behavior is objectively a problem and not just a matter of subjective personal taste…?