Azas
Salesman of Dreams
Hear, hear!
USA Politics
- Thread starter Genghis Khan
- Start date
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
We all have our numbers, I don't doubt yours are correct and all the others are incorrect
https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_Crime_in_Sweden_in_the_Twenty-First_Century
but I don't really care. Enjoy your AfD rule. I'm stopping with clicking "show ignored content", this is useless.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...d_Crime_in_Sweden_in_the_Twenty-First_Century
but I don't really care. Enjoy your AfD rule. I'm stopping with clicking "show ignored content", this is useless.
Azas
Salesman of Dreams
And the one whose name shall not be mentioned can juggle all he wants with the few facts he clings to—but reality shows that immigration rules are, in fact, being tightened. Did I forget to mention Austria? Poland? I’m pretty sure you know the other countries where these policies are currently under review. Let’s not forget: immigration is also being used as a weapon—by that rotten country to the east.
Azas
Salesman of Dreams
We also have facts.
Finnish police dared to publish sex crime records based on nationality. Compared to Finns, the rates of sexual offenses committed are:- 6x higher (Somalis)- 10x higher (Iraqis)- 12x higher (Afghans and Congolese)- 15x higher (Syrians)The statistics, published for the year 2023, show the number of sexual offenses committed per 10,000 citizens.
I guess, now i will be labelled racist in no time.
Finnish police dared to publish sex crime records based on nationality. Compared to Finns, the rates of sexual offenses committed are:- 6x higher (Somalis)- 10x higher (Iraqis)- 12x higher (Afghans and Congolese)- 15x higher (Syrians)The statistics, published for the year 2023, show the number of sexual offenses committed per 10,000 citizens.
I guess, now i will be labelled racist in no time.
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
We are in the US politics thread. I gave you the actual numbers. Facts don't care about your feelings, as Benny boy used to say
No, I posted the numbers. I showed you "reality". No one said that rules aren't being "tightened". We are talking about how much of an actual issue immigrant crime is and the number shows quite clearly how blown out of proportion that is. Stop falling for propaganda.
No one has called you a racist so stop playing the perpetual victim, it's boring.
No one said that no crimes are ever being committed. Of course there are immigrants who will do so and they need to face the legal system. You are cherrypicking the data somewhat to make your point though. In the vast majority of cases when discussing rape, the perpetrator is not a stranger but someone already known to the victim, often a friend, coworker or even family member.
But the funniest thing: After googling a bit I found out that this particular image is from a Russian disinformation campaing and the original website is paywalled. They made up some of the numbers, falsified statistics and attributed their fake stats to the police as a source. They deliberately filtered out some nationalities and changed some of the numbers around. So, congrats, you swallowed Russian propaganda once more. There's a reason why people used to tell their children to not believe anything that they read on the internet.
As for the actual case numbers:
Note, that obviously all of those are bad and should've been avoided, but there's a reason why immigration is the go to topic for populists. It's incredibly easy to whip up people in a frenzy instead of pointing to issues like income inequality (which directly affects every single type of crime).
But sure, go ahead and continue being smug instead.
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Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Sheriff chose to leave and apparently that means that he got bullied and censored off the forum or something
Azas
Salesman of Dreams
I admit that, in the heat of the moment, I reposted something I found on Google. The diagram was originally shared by Sebastian Tynkkynen, a Finnish member of the European Parliament. At the time, I assumed he was a reliable source. Now that I’ve read more about his background and seen that he holds strongly anti-Muslim views, I honestly don’t know how trustworthy he—or those numbers—really are. If there are people here from Finland, maybe they can help clarify.
If I’ve fallen for fake news, I admit it, and I’m sorry. As I said, it was a reaction made in the heat of the moment.
Still, despite this possible screw-up on my part, I stand by what I said earlier regarding immigration: it needs to be much more regulated.
If I’ve fallen for fake news, I admit it, and I’m sorry. As I said, it was a reaction made in the heat of the moment.
Still, despite this possible screw-up on my part, I stand by what I said earlier regarding immigration: it needs to be much more regulated.
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
Like I said, sorry for the sarcasm, this doesn't target just you (or even primarily you), but as this situation repeats, the problem might not be just on one side, is all I'm saying.
I know I'm not allowed to use the word "
I'm not saying you did anything wrong this time; I do think this could have been prevented (I had literally thought about messaging @Sheriff_of_Huddersfield just to tell him of the ignore button and suggest to use it, which might have been enough), but I feel there could be done more to broaden the opinion spectrum a bit and to not repel people of different views and opinions unnecessarily.
Also, like I said, I also don't agree with Sheriff's reactions in the last few pages and I'm not exonerating him from being erratic, overly-defensive and way too touchy.
My biggest suggestion regarding the mods would be - mods, as people who have authority on the forum and do emanate it and who can't be blocked (and honestly, disagreeing with a mod doesn't feel good just in general), should IMHO try to be as much apolitical as possible, especially in controversial topics/threads and not take sides unless it's absolutely necessary. It really does make a subjective difference. Or have more mods from different parts of the political/societal/geographical spectrum, so that the "official" stance is more dispersed and that people coming from elsewhere feel more "backed", kinda.
(I'm not saying the forum is badly moderated or that the mods are bad, btw, it's just a friendly suggestion or a mere food for thought.)
And we all should go outside and touch some grass, to be perfectly honest.
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Azas
Salesman of Dreams
But you were there on the battlefield that stormy day, and you stood up for me! Azas The Annoying thanks you!
Cat Milk Supreme
Ancient Mariner
In terms of the crime numbers posted by Vaenyr and Judas...
Vaenyrs said incarceration rates were lower among migrants. Judas' said immigrants were more likely to be suspected of crime in Sweden.
I'm not trying to cherrypick and I only read the abstracts from the reports but that seems to be a significant difference between the two reports.
Vaenyrs said incarceration rates were lower among migrants. Judas' said immigrants were more likely to be suspected of crime in Sweden.
I'm not trying to cherrypick and I only read the abstracts from the reports but that seems to be a significant difference between the two reports.
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
But you were there on the battlefield that stormy day, and you stood up for me! Azas The Annoying thanks you!
Yeah, right. Thanks, but you should still go touch grass, lol.
Reminded me of this hilarious Cracked.com article
Vaenyr
Ancient Mariner
Fair point! Conviction rates and stats for arrests often show a disproportionate treatment between immigrants, migrants and legal citizens as well.
Not to over generalize, but a common example for the US in particular is how many people of color have had their lives ruined for possession of small amounts of weed, while the rich and powerful break all kinds of laws and often get away with a slap on the wrist. Like the examples of young white and rich college students who raped someone and got away with it because they are "young and bright and full of potential and we shouldn't ruin their lives over one mistake". Which has happened in more than one case.
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Azas
Salesman of Dreams
In fact, I’m going for a stroll through the park. And I’m definitely not touching grass—if you know what I mean..
I see two solutions:
1. @JudasMyGuide, @Sheriff_of_Huddersfield, @Azas and @Vaenyr, you guys all say something nice to each other and tell each other a joke.
2. @JudasMyGuide, @Sheriff_of_Huddersfield and @Azas are allowed to gang up against @Vaenyr to tell him in the most unforgiving and drastic way how much VXI sucks. As a moderator, and a fan of VXI myself, I will not interfere.
1. @JudasMyGuide, @Sheriff_of_Huddersfield, @Azas and @Vaenyr, you guys all say something nice to each other and tell each other a joke.
2. @JudasMyGuide, @Sheriff_of_Huddersfield and @Azas are allowed to gang up against @Vaenyr to tell him in the most unforgiving and drastic way how much VXI sucks. As a moderator, and a fan of VXI myself, I will not interfere.
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
I won't, because that would be a lie. Como Estais Amigos is better than all DiAnno tracks and most Dickinson tracks, for example. With the exception of Stratego and Rainmaker, I only wish modern Maiden could write short, fast rockers like Futureal. And so on.
So, the tougher route, it seems.
Let's start with the first, easiest part
@Azas
Nice: I really appreciate your vigour and conviction, you jump into these threads and debates and fight to a fault, really. You are more courageous than me, that's for sure. Also, I appreciate that we often agree even against the prominent public opinion here, even though I sometimes may feel you're doing the positions a bit of a disservice. But so do I with my lengthy diatribes!
Joke:
Be careful around the plants, actually, you know how it is
Azas
Salesman of Dreams
Just an observation—I'm not trying to stab anyone here. Take it lightly.
As I come to terms with the fact that I might be annoying to—maybe—the majority of you on this forum, I have to say, I feel similarly about No.5 and Vaenyr. No.5's views, to me, are completely horrifying and frankly pro-russian. On the opposite end, there's Vaenyr—so damn righteous? Always dressed in shining armor. I'm not saying he lies. Not at all. But the way he presents himself isn't appealing—at least not to me. He juggles facts and progressive ideas, and sure, maybe in some (or many) cases he’s right, but…
In my country, I vote for one of the main centre-right parties—Homeland Union. It's one of the biggest political forces here. And yes, many people in my country dislike this party. Part of that comes from its symbolic figure during our independence struggle, Vytautas Landsbergis, who’s often mocked or blamed for “destroying” the Soviet-era collective farms—the kolkhoz. It’s become sort of a running joke or meme. Of course, the kolkhoz system collapsed because we transitioned from a planned economy to democracy and a free market. That wasn’t his fault. So that side of the resentment is unjustified.
But there is one part of the criticism that I think is fair: many people see the party’s representatives as arrogant. And I get where that comes from. Yes, the party is led by well-educated, competent, and future-oriented politicians. But sometimes they give off that “we know better” vibe—especially during interviews. There’s definitely a PR issue there, or maybe just moments when they can’t fully mask their real emotions and something slips through.
Now, what am I trying to say with all this? In today’s world—where media bubbles dominate and attention spans are short—you can be mostly right, but if you don’t know how to present yourself, people won’t listen. They won’t vote for you. So, “sensible” European parties really need to adapt. Like it or not, presentation matters now, more than ever.
In that same way, I sometimes feel the same about Vaenyr. Maybe he comes off as too arrogant at times? I get it—he’s constantly fighting what he sees as stupidity or blindness around him, and yeah, sometimes he slips. But still.
I remember when I bought Virtual XI—just seeing that computer-generated back cover gave me a sinking feeling. I already knew I was in trouble. And sure enough, I was right. Futureal rips, The Clansman is epic, The Angel and the Gambler would be fun if it were shorter—but beyond that, the album just feels very depressing to me, both in sound and melody.
And here on this forum, it's interesting to see the clashes happening mostly between relative moderates and relative progressives. There’s no far-right presence here, and yet the progressives (and I say this jokingly) sometimes seem to want to “destroy” anyone who suggests they slow things down a bit. You can’t implement every progressive idea overnight—if you do, all you’ll get is backlash. The real question is, how much time does it take for real change to be accepted? I don’t know. Especially when these sensitive issues are weaponized by hostile countries to divide and destabilize us.
Good day to you all, and may the grass gently caress your feet!
As I come to terms with the fact that I might be annoying to—maybe—the majority of you on this forum, I have to say, I feel similarly about No.5 and Vaenyr. No.5's views, to me, are completely horrifying and frankly pro-russian. On the opposite end, there's Vaenyr—so damn righteous? Always dressed in shining armor. I'm not saying he lies. Not at all. But the way he presents himself isn't appealing—at least not to me. He juggles facts and progressive ideas, and sure, maybe in some (or many) cases he’s right, but…
In my country, I vote for one of the main centre-right parties—Homeland Union. It's one of the biggest political forces here. And yes, many people in my country dislike this party. Part of that comes from its symbolic figure during our independence struggle, Vytautas Landsbergis, who’s often mocked or blamed for “destroying” the Soviet-era collective farms—the kolkhoz. It’s become sort of a running joke or meme. Of course, the kolkhoz system collapsed because we transitioned from a planned economy to democracy and a free market. That wasn’t his fault. So that side of the resentment is unjustified.
But there is one part of the criticism that I think is fair: many people see the party’s representatives as arrogant. And I get where that comes from. Yes, the party is led by well-educated, competent, and future-oriented politicians. But sometimes they give off that “we know better” vibe—especially during interviews. There’s definitely a PR issue there, or maybe just moments when they can’t fully mask their real emotions and something slips through.
Now, what am I trying to say with all this? In today’s world—where media bubbles dominate and attention spans are short—you can be mostly right, but if you don’t know how to present yourself, people won’t listen. They won’t vote for you. So, “sensible” European parties really need to adapt. Like it or not, presentation matters now, more than ever.
In that same way, I sometimes feel the same about Vaenyr. Maybe he comes off as too arrogant at times? I get it—he’s constantly fighting what he sees as stupidity or blindness around him, and yeah, sometimes he slips. But still.
I remember when I bought Virtual XI—just seeing that computer-generated back cover gave me a sinking feeling. I already knew I was in trouble. And sure enough, I was right. Futureal rips, The Clansman is epic, The Angel and the Gambler would be fun if it were shorter—but beyond that, the album just feels very depressing to me, both in sound and melody.
And here on this forum, it's interesting to see the clashes happening mostly between relative moderates and relative progressives. There’s no far-right presence here, and yet the progressives (and I say this jokingly) sometimes seem to want to “destroy” anyone who suggests they slow things down a bit. You can’t implement every progressive idea overnight—if you do, all you’ll get is backlash. The real question is, how much time does it take for real change to be accepted? I don’t know. Especially when these sensitive issues are weaponized by hostile countries to divide and destabilize us.
Good day to you all, and may the grass gently caress your feet!
JudasMyGuide
The incorrigible papist
Part 2:
@Sheriff_of_Huddersfield
Nice: I don't know, mate, I didn't do anything to you, I think, so it's just really good to find an American with reasonable positions online. I wish the US more people like you (in general, not meaning you storming off, lol), it's probably the only way out for them.
Usually, when I approach an American online (apart from the Catholicism subreddit, which might be my favourite online community ever), I pre-emptively fear that he's gonna be either wokified newspeak spouter or hardcore "Jaysus died on the cross for my right to open carry" and "And on the third day, God created the Remington bolt-action rifle, so that Man could fight the dinosaurs. And the homersexuals."
It's refreshing when he's not.
I also think that you do show off certain patriotism and admiration for your country and I think that is a good thing as well. Too much in this post-modern world we tend to abhor any type of ideal and caring or even being proud about your country is often seemed as a serious no-no. I asked a German friend of mine whether he's proud of being a German and he said he would feel weird saying that and that he feels like people would definitely look at him weird for saying that. Understandable, but a bit unhealthy, methinks. My country also tends to be really self-deprecational, mostly, and I don't think it's exactly healthy.
I didn't read that from you and I think you're right. It might be in a bad place right now, but there's a lot of good stuff about America in the past and I suspect even in the present. Hey, my new pope is from there, and I'm really liking him.
Joke: you seem to be a bit on the touchy side, so take a pick.
"Hey, look at that, see that? A whole school of fish!" "Shhh, come on, this is America, the next thing you'll see is someone shooting the water."
"Sometimes I have sex with my father in an elevator. And it's wrong on so many levels."
"Do you know how to circumcise a Trumpet? Kick his sister in the teeth."
"Do you know how Americans find sheep in tall grass? Irresistible."
"Do you know how many babies you need to paint a barn? It depends on how hard you're throwing."
"Do you know why Catholic priests teach against condoms? Because these get stuck behind the altar servers' dental braces."
(I have, like, two or three more that are really hilarious, but so edgy they would probably get me banned instantly, so if you want those, PM me once you come back)
EDIT:
I'll respect your decision, but please reconsider anyway.
@Sheriff_of_Huddersfield
Nice: I don't know, mate, I didn't do anything to you, I think, so it's just really good to find an American with reasonable positions online. I wish the US more people like you (in general, not meaning you storming off, lol), it's probably the only way out for them.
Usually, when I approach an American online (apart from the Catholicism subreddit, which might be my favourite online community ever), I pre-emptively fear that he's gonna be either wokified newspeak spouter or hardcore "Jaysus died on the cross for my right to open carry" and "And on the third day, God created the Remington bolt-action rifle, so that Man could fight the dinosaurs. And the homersexuals."
It's refreshing when he's not.
I also think that you do show off certain patriotism and admiration for your country and I think that is a good thing as well. Too much in this post-modern world we tend to abhor any type of ideal and caring or even being proud about your country is often seemed as a serious no-no. I asked a German friend of mine whether he's proud of being a German and he said he would feel weird saying that and that he feels like people would definitely look at him weird for saying that. Understandable, but a bit unhealthy, methinks. My country also tends to be really self-deprecational, mostly, and I don't think it's exactly healthy.
I didn't read that from you and I think you're right. It might be in a bad place right now, but there's a lot of good stuff about America in the past and I suspect even in the present. Hey, my new pope is from there, and I'm really liking him.
Joke: you seem to be a bit on the touchy side, so take a pick.
"Hey, look at that, see that? A whole school of fish!" "Shhh, come on, this is America, the next thing you'll see is someone shooting the water."
"Sometimes I have sex with my father in an elevator. And it's wrong on so many levels."
"Do you know how to circumcise a Trumpet? Kick his sister in the teeth."
"Do you know how Americans find sheep in tall grass? Irresistible."
"Do you know how many babies you need to paint a barn? It depends on how hard you're throwing."
"Do you know why Catholic priests teach against condoms? Because these get stuck behind the altar servers' dental braces."
(I have, like, two or three more that are really hilarious, but so edgy they would probably get me banned instantly, so if you want those, PM me once you come back)
EDIT:
I'll respect your decision, but please reconsider anyway.