WHY did they strip-down the sound for No Prayer??

Can't believe that No Prayer is compared with glam rock. Come on guys. This is a rougher album than previous work. Less accessible!

And was writing Wasting Love a bigger change than writing Wasted Years or Can I Play With Madness? ---> click
 
"WHY did they strip-down the sound for No Prayer??"
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I don't really think this was a new direction. I think it was simply an attempt to return to the basic plug-in-and-play set-up/sound/tone that they had when they started out i.e. coming full circle. At least that might have been the thinking. The end result didn't sound the same simply because their songwriting had changed.

I'm not sure if I actually think this (or care); but it's just a thought...
 
It's obviously not a reaction to glam/hair rock like Poison, etc. If anything, I'd guess it's influenced at least in part by the commercial and critical success of more "sleazy" hard rock bands like Guns 'n' Roses and, perhaps, the late-80s resurgence of Aerosmith.
 
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NPFTD was the current album when I became a Maiden fan so I wasn't there to remember what the vibe at them time before the album was released.

But I'd say if the change in direction was influenced by anything, it was by stick they took for having synths and keyboards, and maybe a desire to get back to the vibe of Killers and the first album.

They definitely where not influenced by glam rock, there's a famous story of Steve eating breakfast with Nikki Sixx that inspired Bruce's song Tattooed Millionaire. Basically, Sixx was relaxed just acting like a normal bloke with steve, then when a fan came by he put on all this sham "yeah, rock n roll!" act for the fans benefit, then when the fan left Sixx was back to normal. Basically, Maiden though glam etc. was insincere guff, so I doubt they wanted to jump on that bandwagon.
 
Even if I bought seventh son as my first record when it wad released, I was too young and, well, living on the country side without much information about the general feeling from other fans.
but I do remember the musical climate changing in the early 90s along with a change in the attitude in society as a whole. Everything that was 80 style was really something you wanted to avoid, especially big and bombastic stuff. Everything was getting more down to earth, which of course became really evident with three grunge movement. So I just think they felt the same as everyone else that it was time to strip down a bit and tried to do it in their own way, looking backwards a bit and tried a bit of a new approach to the arrengments of the songs. I don't think it was for comercial purposes as much as just getting a feeling of what was going on in the world on many levels. And as previous poster noted, both wasted years and madness where short radio friendly songs, more so to my ear than even hooks in you.
 
I think it's natural for a band to want to strip down their sound after a period of experimenting and increasingly complex albums. Rush did it, Metallica did it, and Maiden did it. It can be exhausting making music that ambitious so I understand why they'd want to scale it back after awhile.
 
stannar_kvar said:
but I do remember the musical climate changing in the early 90s along with a change in the attitude in society as a whole. Everything that was 80 style was really something you wanted to avoid, especially big and bombastic stuff. Everything was getting more down to earth, which of course became really evident with three grunge movement. So I just think they felt the same as everyone else that it was time to strip down a bit and tried to do it in their own way, looking backwards a bit and tried a bit of a new approach to the arrengments of the songs. I don't think it was for comercial purposes as much as just getting a feeling of what was going on in the world on many levels.
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Yeah, Maiden had to find their footing in the 90s all of the sudden. They were a big 80s band but no one wanted fake monsters and songs about fictional or historical battles anymore. The early 90s were all about dark, introspective lyrics and styled out music videos and what not.... Maiden had to adapt...or risk being left behind in the dust.
 
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I think it is quite clear Bruce is influenced by Axl as they toured together around 88.
 
LooseCannon said:
In the end, I think to Steve Harris, who has never seemed an Americophile to the extent of Nicko or Dave, what was happening in the UK was probably infinitely more important than what is happening in the USA. I think what Brig says is true - we're looking at a reflection of the "back to basics" sort of mentality. "Alright, blokes, the 80s are over, let's remember where we came from."
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I agree with you, but also think their break had an important input on their musical choices at the time. They didn't play a single gig in 1989 and were quite impatient to go back on the road. And Steve had spent most of the year editing Maiden England and made it clear he was looking forward to go onstage and didn't want to spend to much time in a studio.
 
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Gk1 said:
I think it is quite clear Bruce is influenced by Axl as they toured together around 88.
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I don't see this at all. Bruce and Axl are about as different as singers can get.

The only person I know of who was "influenced" by Axl Rose is Lars Ulrich, who took to wearing a white fringed denim jacket because Axl wore one in the "Paradise City" video.
 
Mosh said:
I think it's natural for a band to want to strip down their sound after a period of experimenting and increasingly complex albums. Rush did it, Metallica did it, and Maiden did it. It can be exhausting making music that ambitious so I understand why they'd want to scale it back after awhile.
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This is definitely also part of it. That and the musical climate in the 90s. But I'm sure Steve thought: Wait...how do we go further and try and TOP Seventh Son in terms of songwriting and imagery? Solution: We don't, and strip the music down instead.
 
Gk1 said:
I think it is quite clear Bruce is influenced by Axl as they toured together around 88.
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You'll have to explain this.

Guns toured with Maiden for not even a month and what Axl had to say about Maiden is that "They're nice guys...but we don't have anything musically in common" I don't see anything Guns-like about No Prayer either. It wasn't until around 1992/93 that Bruce found other musical interests in the more alternative rock scene.
 
I remember reading about it back in the day.Bruce would say how refreshing GNR were for hard music.And all of the sudden Bruce changed his vocal style.I did not really need him to justify it.He sounded to me like trying to copy Axl the first time I heard the album it still sounds like that to me.This is how it is for me.
 
I would compare No Prayer for the Dying to Metallica's Black Album. They had gone about as far as they could go with the epic songwriting on their proceeding album and felt the need to strip back, to the point where it wasn't even really metal anymore. And I know i'll be slaughtered (no pun intended) for saying that but controversial opinion time, Maiden lost all edge on that album. Unfortunately, unlike The Black Album, I don't think the songwriting was up to snuff, and Janick Gers is a rather weak replacement for the brilliant Adrian Smith. I feel like once you've heard one of his solos, you've heard 'em all. Yet maybe that's because I don't listen to 90s Maiden much so I don't have a great familiarity with his stuff, but they're all instantaneously recognisable as Janick (though that's not necessarily a bad thing). I digress though. Essentially No Prayer was an attempt (at least in my eyes) to make the band's music much more about punchiness and memorable songwriting rather than expansiveness.

Maiden weren't the most ostentatious act of the 80s, even if they threw in embellishments around the time of SIT, but I think they'd got a lot of that out of their system by this stage and wanted to do something different. They risked becoming a lingering dinosaur of the previous decade and a bit of a self-parody if they'd carried on in the same direction. I distinctly remember hearing FOTD and being vaguely aware that this band was now officially legendary - it had triumphantly made it out of the 80s and was still as cool as ever.
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averycopeland said:
Of course, they would probably never candidly admit this motivation since it would likely brand them as wannabe "sell-outs".
So, ironically, maybe their failure achieving this short-term goal actually strengthened their artistic credibility long-term.
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I'd hardly call their first and only no.1 single in the UK ("Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter") a failure to that goal.

Brigantium said:
I actually see it as part of the other emerging trend in music and popular culture at the time, the 'back to basics' one. Funnily enough, that was a rejection of OTT peak-80s stuff. I don't know how far that went in the US, but it was quite big in the UK. The mainstream Top 40 music chart was transformed. Manufactured pop and extravagant music was suddenly fighting it out with relatively grass roots energetic dance acts and off-the-wall 'Madchester'-style indie bands who sounded like they were playing in their dad's garage (they probably were). Hair metal became hilariously embarrassing and was much derided. The only hard rock band that was still cool was GNR.
Maiden weren't the most ostentatious act of the 80s, even if they threw in embellishments around the time of SIT, but I think they'd got a lot of that out of their system by this stage and wanted to do something different. They risked becoming a lingering dinosaur of the previous decade and a bit of a self-parody if they'd carried on in the same direction. I distinctly remember hearing FOTD and being vaguely aware that this band was now officially legendary - it had triumphantly made it out of the 80s and was still as cool as ever.
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I see "From Here to Eternity" as having a hair metal vibe to it. Also as much as I love "Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter", I can't help but cringe at "true love and lipstick on your lenin" when not in the right mood. It couldn't be more cock rocking of a phrase. As for the 'back to basics' thing, grunge didn't really kick off until 92 when Nevermind kicked MJ's Dangerous off the charts. So even though I agree, they wanted to go back to basics, I don't think this was for the reason of fitting in. They didn't seem afraid of becoming dinosaurs (though they definitely felt that way, not so much on FOTD though).

22 The Avenue said:
No Prayer is the most recent album I've purchased, in order, and I've listened to it a fair amount to start commenting on it.
They very clearly wanted to follow in the footsteps of other glam rock bands that were ironically influenced by bands like Iron Maiden. They wanted to be another late 80s/early 90s anthem rock band and their attempt at doing so failed miserably. They became the crap that I had thought Iron Maiden was better than and what distinctly set them apart from the Judas Priest/Def Leppard/ACDCs of the world.
With that being said, the album does have a handful of decent songs. No amazing songs and that is its biggest flaw.
It's tied with Killers as the worst album so far. I can't decide which I dislike more. Killers might be a touch better.
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You don't like Priest? Sure they definitely influenced the big hair/pink spandex 'fake metal' of the 80s and you can see them trying to stay relevant with that kind of thing with a couple of the tracks on Defenders of the Faith (not to mention Turbo, *shudders*) but the very same year as No Prayer, they released Painkiller, by far their heaviest and most frantic album. I still stand by that Rob Halford is the best singer in metal history. But that's just me.

22 The Avenue said:
I guess Glam/Hair Metal might've been a better term.
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See I always hated that term, even though most of the time I have know choice but to use it due to it's popularity. Some of the earlier bands like Motley Crue had a meatier sound but there was no trace of metal in hair metal by the end of the 80s, and I argue there was very little in there to begin with. I prefer the term cock rock.
 
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I'm now starting to listen to FotD and tracks like wasting love definitely gave me a Guns n' Roses vibe. Not that that's a bad thing.
It's a different sound, but I don't mind it so far. It's a noticeable improvement over NPftD.
 
22 The Avenue said:
I'm now starting to listen to FotD and tracks like wasting love definitely gave me a Guns n' Roses vibe. Not that that's a bad thing.
It's a different sound, but I don't mind it so far. It's a noticeable improvement over NPftD.
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Not a fan of "Wasting Love". Some great tracks on there though. "Be Quick Or Be Dead" is such fun. I see you still haven't answered my question as well.
 
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