Well, here's one band that can go collectively fuck themselves

Forostar

Ancient Mariner
That's the way a mate of mine put it on Facebook and I tend to agree. I am curious what you think.

Read what this forum says about the bandleader of Therion:

Christofer Johnsson is an active and prolific member of Sverigedemokraterna. The nationalist Swedish party that recently got voted into Swedish parliment.

SD has its roots in several neo-nazi organisations but have managed to clean up their reputation considerably. The core is still blatant islamophobia and xenofobia.

There for it makes sense that Johnsson looks like this now:


40C62B.jpg


-------

I am reading a bit more about this party, and on wiki it's stated that SD never has been a Nazi party, although various "connections" have existed by members.

What do you think? Do you care about the political views of the artists you listen to (to a certain extent)?
 
not at all actually. I don't listen to band's music because of their beliefs, but because they make good music. I don't think I would buy any CD's from a band made up of neo-nazis though.
 
SinisterMinisterX said:
Why hate the whole band, when you've only expressed displeasure about one member?

Well, that band is a bit like Iced Earth (and now definitely since both leaders have launched themselves into nationalistic realms): Johnsson is the band and he undemocratically fires members as often as he wishes.

Of course I wouldn't hate all the members, but I am not sure if I can enjoy music while realizing what kind of man the main writer is.

The Knife Master said:
not at all actually. I don't listen to band's music because of their beliefs, but because they make good music. I don't think I would buy any CD's from a band made up of neo-nazis though.

There's so much good music around, I rather leave out the ones with (imo) crappy attitudes.
 
Jon Schaffer's adventures on the other side of sanity didn't really put me off Iced Earth.  I haven't been listening to them much lately, but that's not because of Schaffer.  I don't know of any other bands whose leading member might have such extreme views though; I haven't listened to Therion before.

If the attitude carries over into the lyrics, then it might be a bit different, though even then it would have to be pretty extreme to put me off.  There's a Finnish death metal band that I can't really listen to because the lyrics sound so militaristic/nationalistic (not neo-nazi/racist like your example, it's a bit hard to explain).  The band have stated that it's just for shock value, they don't really think that, but I still can't bring myself to listen to those kind of lyrics.  
 
Funny is that Latin America is their most hardcore fan base.

Well, I guess Einstein summed it all up pretty well and in genius manner, ages ago:

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Albert Einstein
 
Well, it would be weird (to say the least) to sing along to a band that writes songs about concentrations camps or other similar subjects, but then, I wouldn't write off a band because of politics. I'd judge the overall product instead, if it sucks, then I'll stop listening to that artist's records. There's a hardcore punk band called Fear (do you know or even like them?) I enjoy their music because it's fun and great to sing along to, even though they seem to hold right wing beliefs (in their case, though, their politics seem to be more tongue in cheek than anything else) I also like Rage Against The Machine (even if it's been quite a while since I last blasted one of their records) which as you know are the complete opposite.
 
I LOVE Therion and I could care less what Chris J. does. Schaffer has gone batshit crazy and I haven't bothered with Sons of Liberty or the last few IE albums, but I will rock out to Alive in Athens any day just like I will listen to some 90's Stratovarious even though Tolki is one depressed, raging Alcoholic with daddy issues...

point being, music is great, lyrics are ambigious/harmless enough.. I'll listen to it. I didn't buy their last cd after youtubing some tunes, because it is too much like Gothic Kabbalah... in other words, it sucks.
 
If we stopped listening to artists that had extreme views (be it political/religious/etc) we would end up with very few bands to listen to. Personally, I would not stop listening to any artist based on what they think - I would stop listening if the music is crap.
 
Forostar said:
That's the way a mate of mine put it on Facebook and I tend to agree. I am curious what you think.

....

What do you think? Do you care about the political views of the artists you listen to (to a certain extent)?

First off, I'd like to comment on the political stuff itself. The party has its parallel in Norway, a party called Demokratene, consisting mainly of people who where thrown out of the Progress Party because their sometimes controversial opinions on immigration caused too much trouble for the mother party. I would personally never vote for them (and I wouldn't vote for SD if I were Swedish), but I think it's very harsh to link individuals to Nazism because they support one of these.

Especially for the Swedish party, they have had to "clean up" to be more accepted by the mainstream, and I guess anyone expressing sympathy for Neo-Nazism today would be expelled.

Now to the main point: In Sweden, expressing the desire for a strict immigration policy has been more or less taboo and one is labeled racist easier than most other places. If one is allowed to use the term "political correctness" here, I'd say Sweden is the country in which it has gone the furthest. Thus, when a party arrives on the stage who dare to speak out such opinions, I suspect that anyone in favour of a more restrictive immigration policy might be tempted to vote for them - even if the party holds more extreme opinions than these potential voters (extreme in a relative sense).

I think those who voted for SD at the last general election, come from several parts of the political spectrum in Sweden. Of course you'd have those who have always been far right, but I'd guess both the Conservatives (Moderaterna) and the Social Democrats have lost voters to them. Thus I find it wrong to label any individual a fascist, right extremist, racist or xenophobe just because they have voted for SD once. For many it might have been a way to protest against that "self-censorship" the Swedish society has exercised on immigration issues. In Norway, more controversial points of view have been aired all the way back to the 80s, and the established political community has taken on the debate. I think that's why the Norwegian counterpart of SD has never gained popularity. Only those who actually are very xenophobic (but not necessarily neo-nazi) will vote for them.

I would also like to express how bad I think the treatment of the party by media and the established parties has been. As the Wikipedia article mentions, they were denied the opportunity to advertise in papers, but that's not really bad. Worse, I think, is that big newspapers put up frontpages more or less telling people "DON'T VOTE FOR THESE PEOPLE", and the way their representatives have been boycotted in other ways. I think the Swedish members on here can elaborate more. But the fact is, these people are legally elected, and should be met with counter-arguments, not boycotting and hate-campaigns.

Enough on my opinion about the party (parties). When it comes to the political views of musicians I listen to, I haven't really given it much thought. I enjoy music by people who are socialists, liberal, conservative, Christians and atheists likewise. Only when their political or religious views become too dominant in their lyrics do I have problems with it. If an artist tries to shove his views down my throat with his music, he can go fuck himself. Otherwise, I don't care much.

At the end, a little remark about that picture and the comment related to it: Having one's hair very short like that is quite popular in Scandinavia, and does not imply any link to the skinhead movement or neo-nazism in general, so that one's off the mark.
 
Eddies Wingman said:
I think those who voted for SD at the last general election, come from several parts of the political spectrum in Sweden. Of course you'd have those who have always been far right, but I'd guess both the Conservatives (Moderaterna) and the Social Democrats have lost voters to them.

If I remember correctly, the largest share of voters moving to SD came from the Moderates, followed closely by the Social Democrats. All the estabilished parties lost voters to them to some degree.

EW's analysis is spot on, as far as I'm concerned. The media frenzy surrounding SD was extreme during the election this year and still is, although the party has become more accepted now that they're in parliament and part of the everyday political discourse. Their representatives have said that relations between them and the other parties have thawed over time (naturally, as they have the swing vote).

Sweden's immigration policies are very generous compared to other European countries, and the other seven parties in parliament deviate very little from the estabilished consensus. My impression is that most people who vote for SD don't really care for the party itself - they're voting for them as a way to show the other parties that they don't support the current status quo. If the government were to accomodate some of SD's proposals, the party would run out of steam. Ignoring them and making unfounded accustations of racism in the papers will only make them grow.

By the way, Sweden have signed the Treaty of Lisbon. If the EU ever manage to develop a common immigration policy, we'll have to implement stricter immigration laws anyway.
 
Albie said:
If we stopped listening to artists that had extreme views (be it political/religious/etc) we would end up with very few bands to listen to.

I can't imagine that. I don't even listen to many bands with extreme views, at least I can't make it up from their lyrics, or find out otherwise.

Albie said:
Personally, I would not stop listening to any artist based on what they think - I would stop listening if the music is crap.

No limits whatsoever? Amazing.

Thanks for the feedback EW and Shadow, I wonder if Johnsson will leave out his right wing propaganda, I mean out of his lyrics.

Onhell said:
I will rock out to Alive in Athens any day just like I will listen to some 90's Stratovarious even though Tolki is one depressed, raging Alcoholic with daddy issues...

But that music was made before the "changes" happened.
 
Albie said:
If we stopped listening to artists that had extreme views (be it political/religious/etc) we would end up with very few bands to listen to. Personally, I would not stop listening to any artist based on what they think - I would stop listening if the music is crap.

I don't agree with the first part of your post. Many of the artists I listen to are apolitical and musically devoid of philosophical (or otherwise) concerns. But I agree with the rest: I'm musically amoral. If the music sucks, then it deserves to be avoided, but that's about it, not because of political or moral reasons (even though I prefer music which is not "preachy")
 
So most of you guys have no problems with political messages in music? Or does it depend on if you agree with the message?

That last really goes for me. I love Midnight Oil who were very critical on the US and their own (Australian) government when it comes to e.g. social issues (aboriginals), and environment.

I don't like right wing (xenophobia) crap in lyrics, and I wouldn't like it either if a band member voices such ideas outside the band, in a political party.

I wonder why you guys have no problem with right wing stuff. Maybe it's because you tolerate that political direction itself?
 
Forostar said:
I wonder why you guys have no problem with right wing stuff. Maybe it's because you tolerate that political direction itself?

Not exactly. My political views are a mix between right wing and left wing. I don't want private property to become illegal and I don't want the state to control gun ownership, but at the same time I'm pro-choice on everything, from drugs to abortion to euthanasia and I'm also a supporter of gay rights. But I ignore politically-charged lyrics because I don't judge lyrics alone: if the music of a certain band is well made and I like it, then I don't care about the lyrics even though I don't support their content. I like Italian reggae/hip hop/electronica band 99 Posse, composed of left wing "extremists" who preach antiprohibitionist messages, rail against the police and the government and "support" the proletariat. And as I stated previously I like RATM (even though both bands can be accused of opportunism, IMO) But it's not because of the lyrics, with which I may or may not agree, but because I like the music. I like Fear for the same reason.
 
Back
Top