USA Politics

The Flash said:
@Collin

I haven't watched the debates yet but it seems to me like you are evaluating the chances of the candidates from a libertarian perspective. That's well and good as to whom you like personally, but not a good way to establish who is the favorite to get the Democratic nomination. Tulsi's anti-war platform is appealing for a libertarian who doesn't see in others candidates what he's looking for in terms of policy, but not much of a needle-mover in terms of getting the nomination.
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Yeah, you're 100% correct there. Personally I would want to see Tulsi or Yang with the nomination, I don't agree with them on everything but they would be good in office. In all likelihood, Biden or Warren will end up with the nomination.
 
What Tulsi has going for her is respect from a lot of Republicans. That's not going to perfectly help on the Dem side of things, so if she can focus on bringing in people from both parties together in favor then perhaps she can get somewhere.
 
Diesel 11 said:
What Tulsi has going for her is respect from a lot of Republicans. That's not going to perfectly help on the Dem side of things, so if she can focus on bringing in people from both parties together in favor then perhaps she can get somewhere.
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That's exactly what the country needs. But is it what we will get? No.
 
Diesel 11 said:
What Tulsi has going for her is respect from a lot of Republicans. That's not going to perfectly help on the Dem side of things, so if she can focus on bringing in people from both parties together in favor then perhaps she can get somewhere.
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And she’s also apparently Putin’s favorite Democratic contender (link). Maybe not the best choice.
 
Collin said:
Personally I would want to see Tulsi or Yang with the nomination, I don't agree with them on everything but they would be good in office.
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From what I know of them, I appreciate Tulsi and Yang quite a bit as well. Tulsi because of her opposition to American interventionism and willingness to call BS on US foreign policy, Yang because he's bringing ideas like UBI to the forefront as well as bringing up some very direct solutions.

Neither of them really stand a chance though, Tulsi's platform will be shut down as "anti-American" by neocon and neolib warmongers, while Yang's UBI proposals will get shut down by economic illiterates. I've already seen a lot of economically illiterate conservatives call him a commie as if Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek of all people weren't in favor of UBI.
 
The Flash said:
From what I know of them, I appreciate Tulsi and Yang quite a bit as well. Tulsi because of her opposition to American interventionism and willingness to call BS on US foreign policy, Yang because he's bringing ideas like UBI to the forefront as well as bringing up some very direct solutions.

Neither of them really stand a chance though, Tulsi's platform will be shut down as "anti-American" by neocon and neolib warmongers, while Yang's UBI proposals will get shut down by economic illiterates. I've already seen a lot of economically illiterate conservatives call him a commie as if Milton Friedman and Friedrich Hayek of all people weren't in favor of UBI.
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I agree with 100% of what you said.
 
I’m seeing a different reaction to Yang. The people who actually know who he is seem to like him and at least like the concept of a UBI (although there is disagreement on how to implement). Most of his media coverage early on was from progressive media, but some libertarians have caught on as well because UBI is being sold as a path toward dismantling the welfare state. It’s a policy that, if sold correctly, probably would appeal to different factions of the political spectrum. I don’t see it as a lefty idea necessarily. So I’m not really seeing the idea of UBI get shut down by anyone who's familiar with Yang and the proposal. The problem is that Yang presented it terribly last night. He’s made the argument for UBI many times before and he choked. We can argue about whether he was given the proper platform or if the moderators/DNC sabotaged him, but either way it wasn’t a good night for him.

I like Yang and Tulsi. They are highlighting two important issues that most of the rest of the field is comparatively weak on. But they are each one issue candidates who aren’t qualified and would be ineffective presidents. I wouldn’t vote for either of them in a primary. That said, I hope they stick around long enough to get their ideas into the party platform and secure a place in the next dem administration.
 
I really don't know how that's supposed to be a retort to my post @Mosh. Did you read any part of my post other than the phrase "Yang's UBI proposals will get shut down"?

Mosh said:
The people who actually know who he is seem to like him and at least like the concept of a UBI (although there is disagreement on how to implement).
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Of course people who know Yang and like UBI like his platform. That's stating the obvious.

Mosh said:
but some libertarians have caught on as well because UBI is being sold as a path toward dismantling the welfare state.
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Who said anything about libertarians? Of course libertarians hold more favorable towards him, Milton Friedman supported UBI as a way to get rid of the welfare trap and still be able to stimulate upward mobility.

Mosh said:
I don’t see it as a lefty idea necessarily.
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It's not a lefty idea necessarily, because it's not a lefty idea at all. The problem is not you or me not seeing it as a lefty idea, it's conservatives who falsely associate "universal basic income" with "from each according to his ability to his according to his need". It may seem stupid, because it is stupid. I used the adjective "economically illiterate" for a reason. There's a vast number of American conservatives who remain intoxicated on the Red Scare and are prone to associating a wide range of different ideas with socialism. You can simply check out some conservative media channels and see what the comments on Andrew Yang and UBI is if you want to see it for yourself.
 
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My post was meant more as a general reaction to the reception Yang is getting and his potential inspired by some of things being said here. Not really a “retort” of anything. But I do think his biggest obstacle is getting his message to a wider audience, not dealing with the (as you put it) economically illiterate.

The Flash said:
Of course people who know Yang and like UBI like his platform. That's stating the obvious.
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I encourage you to read my post again because that’s not what I said.

Who said anything about libertarians?
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Again, a general comment on Yang and how UBI could be popular in the American mainstream if marketed correctly. I’m not sure why there’s a problem with me mentioning his appeal toward a group that typically doesn’t support democrats.
 
Mosh said:
My post was meant more as a general reaction to the reception Yang is getting and his potential inspired by some of things being said here. Not really a “retort” of anything.
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I took it as such because you started by saying "I'm seeing a different reaction". I was the only one make a point about the reception Yang was getting. Your follow up wasn't really an explanation of a "different" reaction, it addressed things that were not featured in my post.

Mosh said:
I’m not sure why there’s a problem with me mentioning his appeal toward a group that typically doesn’t support democrats.
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This being an example. My post talked about the reception he was getting among people who don't know much about economics or UBI and specifically among the conservative brand of such people, not non-Democrats like libertarians.
 
The Flash said:
it addressed things that were not featured in my post
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Hence a “different reaction.” :p I don’t deny the criticisms you mentioned but I used your post (and Collin’s to a lesser degree) as a jumping off point to talk about the reception of Yang that I had been seeing prior to the debates.

If anything I disagree that Yang doesn’t stand a chance because of the critics you’ve mentioned.

Anyway, I am less interested in Yang the candidate and more in how long it takes for UBI to be discussed in the Democratic Party the way free college and universal healthcare are.
 
So I did that "I Side With" thing. Answered as many questions as I could, which was challenging when the question at hand was very American-specific, completely forgot about the significance of the issue thing and went with somewhat for all of them.

This is what I ended up with in terms of candidates:

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The top two ended up being the ones I'd expect. A bit surprised about how unfavorable Biden ranks.

This is what I ended up with in terms of ideology:

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Especially pleased with this one, because it's consistent with where I'm placed in the Political Compass and what my self-perception is. I was skeptical that it'd be the case when applied to the American context, answering a wide range of questions.

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Very time consuming but fun nonetheless. I advise y'all give it a go. A couple of people mentioned their results in the previous election cycle IIRC.
 
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10055

Was a very interesting quiz. Some of the questions I really wasn’t sure about but did my best. Tulsi is still my favorite of the candidates so that’s nice.
 
Did you guys expand the questions in each field? (Answer more questions) I expanded them as much as possible. Percentages drop a bit when you answer a wider range of questions, I think. (More issues to disagree on)
 
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