UK Politics

Dmac80 said:
Reading through the thread I can't help but wonder why those from the UK here 1)feel an un-elected bureaucracy of elites in Brussels is better at running your country than your own people are
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Well, you can probably stop now as I personally don't feel this is the case, although I would not use the term "your own people" (that tribal language is rather obsolete), rather "people standing for parliament elected in democratic elections at the country where one lives and pays his/her taxes".

Dmac80 said:
2)if those who voted to reclaim their country are such racist, xenophobic morons, then maybe you ought to move on from supporting Iron Maiden, seeing as Bruce himself has endorsed Brexit?
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That is incorrect too. People in the UK with many differing political views (from the traditional socialism at the left to those that see themselves in the centre left, the centre right - where Bruce places himself - or the right) voted for Brexit for many different reasons, many of them absolutely valid (and I say this as someone who would have preferred the Remain option to win).
 
Black Wizard said:
Does anyone care about EU Parliament elections anyway? In the UK the turnout generally struggles to reach 35%.
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Most people in different European countries probably see them as a sad joke (average turnout has been less than 50% for the last 20 years!).

The turnout in Spain went from the relatively acceptable (less than 60%) when there was enthusiasm for the EU ("Hey, after a fascist dictatorship of nearly 40 years we are finally a democratic country accepted by other European states and we are going to get tons of money as a result of becoming members of this private club!"), to the really low (45% and less from 2004), when people had probably realised that it was all a massive joke (or they had to give money, rather than receive it).

Funnily enough, checking the results from the elections it seems the turnout in the UK has not been that different than in The Netherlands since the 90s (turnout for the UK first below).

1979 (32.4% vs 58.12%)
1984 (32.6% vs 50.88%)
1989 (36.4% vs 47.48%)
1994 (36.4% vs 35.69%)
1999 (24.0% vs 30.02%)
2004 (38.5% vs 39.26%)
2009 (34.7% vs 36.75%)
2014 (35.6% vs 37.32%)

Fairly pathetic numbers in any case, clearly showing the value people give to these elections. I mean, the UK has always been an EU skeptic country, but it seems that a significant proportion of Europeans are not particularly enthusiastic about it either.
 
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GhostofCain said:
Most people in different European countries probably see them as a sad joke (average turnout has been less than 50% for the last 20 years!).

The turnout in Spain went from the relatively acceptable (less than 60%) when there was enthusiasm for the EU, to the really low (45% and less from 2004), when people had probably realised that it was all a massive joke.
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It's interesting to know that the rest of Europe doesn't have much interest in the EU Parliament either. I've never been a fan of that institution. It's just another unnecessary level of government on top of what we already have. I'd be satisfied if the representatives whom we have already elected to form our governments just sat in a room and made decisions instead of several hundred extra politicians.
 
Black Wizard said:
It's interesting to know that the rest of Europe doesn't have much interest in the EU Parliament either. I've never been a fan of that institution. It's just another unnecessary level of government on top of what we already have. I'd be satisfied if the representatives whom we have already elected to form our governments just sat in a room and made decisions instead of several hundred extra politicians.
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That is one of the reasons we are in the situation we are in the UK now: a lot of people do not want that extra layer of government on top of the one that really matters to them/us (take your pick), which is the one that decides what is being done with your taxes and how they are spent on things like healthcare or education.

It's interesting to see how the enthusiasm for the EU has decreased so much in continental Europe, with the turnout at elections in even their most ardent supporters (Germany, France) dropping so much. The turnout went from 65.7% in West Germany in 1979 ("We are again members of the human race after WWII") to as low as 43% in 2004 and 2009 (it went up to 48% in 2014 though). In France, it went from 61.7% in 1979 to 42.43% in 2014!
 
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Dr. Eddies Wingman said:
Or silly walks.
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You see there's Defense, Social Security, Health, Housing, Education, Silly Walks ... they're all supposed to get the same. But last year, the Government spent less on the Ministry of Silly Walks than it did on National Defense! Now we get £348,000,000 a year, which is supposed to be spent on all our available products.
 
Not to mention how prevalent that whole anti politician and anti government sentiment has become in Britain in particular, fuelled I think by applying certain American ideas and popular culture out of context. The EU is a natural target against that backdrop.
 
Brigantium said:
Not to mention how prevalent that whole anti politician and anti government sentiment has become in Britain in particular, fuelled I think by applying certain American ideas and popular culture out of context. The EU is a natural target against that backdrop.
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That sentiment is widespread all over Europe (and the rest of the world). I would say it is a novelty in the UK compared to what I have seen elsewhere over the years.
 
Black Wizard said:
It's not about optimism or pessimism. You know that. It's about reality - it is what it is - and the legal fact that it is not easy to change UK and EU law in such a short time frame. Is that so difficult to comprehend?
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No one said it was not going to be easy. No one said it would not get difficult.

Perhaps by now, finally some people can remove their focus from the 29th. Nothing happens on that day. Brexit is delayed (EU will give more time).
 
GhostofCain said:
That sentiment is widespread all over Europe (and the rest of the world). I would say it is a novelty in the UK compared to what I have seen elsewhere over the years.
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I got the impression it was commoner here because people swallow all American populist sentiment and culture, being same native language and all.
 
Brigantium said:
I got the impression it was commoner here because people swallow all American populist sentiment and culture, being same native language and all.
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Not really. The UK stiff upper lip attitude has kept those sentiments under control for much longer than in other places.
 
They are irritated (mostly behind closed doors) but it is all for the best to not steer at a no-deal Brexit.

I assume we either have a deal-Brexit, hopefully not in a rush, let it take months.

Either nothing constructive will happen and we'll get indefinite delay (no Brexit in sight, excellent!).
 
The Brexit Secretary, Stephen Barclay, closed today's debate about extending the exiting process, urging Parliament to vote for the government's motion. The very same man then voted against the government's motion. :D
 
GhostofCain said:
Not really. The UK stiff upper lip attitude has kept those sentiments under control for much longer than in other places.
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You're not seeing that half of the country that doesn't have stiff upper lip culture, and, in fact, despises all that stands for. ;)
 
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