To infinity, and beyond...

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Mmm...Donuts

Trooper
Well, the Phoenix has finally risen.

NASA's next Mars mission is now set to find signs of life in the red planet's polar ice caps, and hopefully will open the way to man exploration and eventual colonization. Even though the previously sent Viking spacecraft proved fruitless, this new mission may shed some new light.

I was wondering of you guys discussing the future of this. For example, will it finally be successful in making Mars a suitable second planet for mankind? Will our generation or our children live to see it?

Do you think that our technology will be sufficient to carry out this endeavor and make Mars a new planet to settle on/ And hopefully for future science to solve the problems of solar radiation for planetary travel. We can't just colonize Mars without minimizing the risks and to terraform it properly.

Discuss  :bigsmile:
 
You ever read the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson? Long read but very good, an almost beleivable account of the terraforming and colonisation of Mars
 
Not happy are we to only destroy Earth, we need another untouched planet to rape.

If human life can be sustained on Mars, I don't think it's our right to just simply colonise it.
 
If Mars is currently devoid of life, what negative effect could colonization have on the planet? The planet's supposedly incapable of supporting life so i don't see how any change could possibly make the planet worse.
 
With respect, that's a bit like saying "why not colonise area x of Earth - I mean, no-one lives here anyway". Some things are best left as they are. And Mars is supposedly incapable of sustaining life as we know it.
 
Um...there is no area of this planet except for the ocean floor we haven't colonized.

And we're coming, damn commie fish.  We're gonna bring you freedom yet!
 
Helphyre said:
If Mars is currently devoid of life, what negative effect could colonization have on the planet? The planet's supposedly incapable of supporting life so i don't see how any change could possibly make the planet worse.
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So you are saying we should build our future on assumptions and suppositions? That is precisely the attitude that brought mankind to where it stands today.
Before we know anything for certain -that is, before we can erase that "supposedly" from your sentence- we shouldn't do it.
The history of colonisation, and in the end, that is the history of man, is full of examples where wrong assumptions and lack of knowledge led to misunderstandings and disasters. Wars with natives have often enough erupted because the immigrants believed they would find something, and the natives were unable to communicate with them and give them directions. In case you don't believe me, have you ever asked yourself what the name "Argentina" means? It means "land of silver". It was not named that way after people discovered silver there, but because they were hoping to find it. But guess what: With the exception of one depot in the far northwest, there is absolutely no silver in that country.

This time, we have the chance to learn everything about the place we might colonise, and we better take it. This way, we can also avoid raping the next planet. A bit of doubt remains even for me, as to whether we have the right to do it, but fact is, it might be the only hope for the future of humanity.
 
Unfortunately I think many politicians see Mars as our 'second chance'. If we screw Earth up to the point of it being inhabitable, we can always move to Mars. And if there are life forms on Mars, they either won't be intelligent ones like us (in which case we can piss all over them) or they'll be intelligent (in which we can still piss all over them...with guns). This is why I am sceptical about the whole Mars colonization thing. I mean sure it would be nice if there are life forms on Mars, but there is a reason we were put on Earth to begin with. So let's try harder to save our planet from ourselves instead of trying to find a plan B.

Edit: I see what you mean Perun, but we're talking planets here. Similar, but much bigger. Who owns Mars? Thats the question.
 
Natalie said:
but there is a reason we were put on Earth to begin with.
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If the Spanish had thought that of Iberia, the Greeks of Greece or the English of England, things would look a lot different now.
 
Talking about colonizing Mars? With all due respect, are you people out of your minds?

We don't even have the technology to land an unmanned craft on Mars reliably. Some probes sent to Mars have landed successfully; more have crashed and wrecked. It will be several decades, minimum, before we could even think about a manned exploration mission - and I'd be shocked if that occurred even in this young century.

Colonizing Mars, if it ever happens, is probably centuries away. It won't happen in our lifetimes. Not even close.

Of course, I understand that you may be thinking of this question in the abstract: when humans have the technology, will it be right or wrong?

I say do it. The natural resources of the universe are here for us to use. I'm not saying we have an exclusive right to them; if the flying hive-mind giant dragons from the Great Red Spot of Jupiter get there first, then we'll have a conflict on our hands. But the idea of "preserving the natural state of Mars" for its own sake is stupid. Have you ever seen photos of Mars? It's a ball of red dust. Mine that sucker for anything useful.
 
We could do Mars if we wanted.  We don't want to.  We went to the moon because it was hard (to quote a certain PotUS), because it proved we were stronger than the Soviets.  Very quickly, we stopped wanting to go to the moon.
 
Adding a little spice to the topic, do you think, that we're alone in this universe? No one else will compete with us to colonize Mars?
I think what SMX said about taking advantage of what Mars has with its natural resources is credible, and considering it doesn't have the beauty of
Earth, so if we do have a chance of colonizing Mars, it's to use its resources to benifit mankind.

But I also agree that colonizing Mars should not be a top priority, it's better to use our resources now to help clean up our planet, since it's what we have for now.
 
LooseCannon said:
because it proved we were stronger than the Soviets.
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The human race?
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The human race is stronger than the Soviets?

Alright, I'll stop being a dick. :P

do you think, that we're alone in this universe? No one else will compete with us to colonize Mars?
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That's two different questions. The first one I will definitely answer with 'no'. I don't see why Earth would be unique in the mass of billions of planets in this Galaxy alone to produce an intelligent and self-conscious life form (remember, animals are intelligent too, they lack, however, the self-consciousness that sets humanity apart). In fact, mankind is not even unique on Earth. For ages, it has competed with the Neanderthals, a species that had similar, if not even superior intellectual capacities (art, ceremonial burial, settlements and hunting techniques were something the Neanderthals beat the Homo sapiens with by millennia), but with physical shortcomings that eventually doomed them. Why should Earth have two of those life forms, and no other planet even have one?
Will someone else compete with us to colonise Mars? I doubt it. Recently, scientists have discovered a planet in a nearby (read: 28 light years away) solar system which has a very good chance of developing life, because its distance to its star is comparable to Earth's (the planet is actually nearer, but the star is much smaller). Why should some species fly around looking for a planet of dubious quality such as Mars, if they can have such a jackpot? In fact, I think it is much more efficient to simply eradicate humanity from Earth than to settle down on Mars. The thing is, the alien race would have the choice- we don't.
 
Perun said:
Why should Earth have two of those life forms, and no other planet even have one?
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Because planet earth might float around in unique conditions?

The term "unique" is the crux. Can something/someone be unique? After answering that, other questions can be answered.

Why would we believe in something we cannot proof (yet)?
 
Forostar said:
Because planet earth might float around in unique conditions?
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I think that is impossible. Although there is no hands-on proof, there is enough evidence. As I mentioned above, scientists have recently discovered a planet that is floating around in comparable conditions to Earth (see here).

Let's look at it this way: What do you suppose the odds are for a planet to have the same conditions as Earth? One in a billion? Let's assume that the odds actually are one in a billion for a solar system to contain a planet that is like Earth, with a comparable distance to the star and the geological prerequisites. According to Dieter B. Hermann, Das Weltall (Munich, 2006), pp 46-7, there are an estimated 200 billion stars in this galaxy alone. Later in the book (p 64), he states that in the so-far known part of the Universe, there are several hundreds of billions of galaxies. So, speaking in our odds, there would be around 200 Earth-like planets in this Galaxy alone, and, choosing a house number of 200 billion galaxies, 40,000 Earth-like planets in the known Universe outside of our Galaxy.
Now, given that another Earth-like planet has likely already been discovered in a neighbouring solar system, we must assume that the odds are much higher.

I am basing my own thoughts on assumptions, I know. The final proof of another Earth-like planet existing somewhere else -which is the planet itself- has so far not been discovered. But given the chances that such a planet exists, I think it is not a wasted effort to look for it.
 
Chances are, if there really is a human like civilization on the most earth like planet (likely Gliese 581 c), I bet they also discovered Earth from their telescopes and are discussing in forums if it's safe for colonization  :P

But seriously, with gazillions of stars and galaxies, there might be life out there. Or Daleks.
 
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