The Worst of the Beast
- Thread starter greeneless
- Start date
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
Let an educated fool give an educated guess: The Bulletin Board Which Should Not Be Named ...
InfiniteDreamer said:
Why? Did you do serious drugs during those years and want to forget it? Because I am listening to the X Factor and it is gooooood.
Natalie said:
I think its cool to get so many perspectives on Maiden. Its interesting, because POM is in my top 2 Maiden albums, and NPFTD is in my bottom 3. But, its cool that we can all be Maiden fans, but take something so differently from them.
I know many of you dig the Blaze stuff, and I've been listening to it; I think musically its pretty sound stuff, but it doesn't get me the way that POM or SSOASS did. But, it all takes time, I guess.
I used to think like you Wasted, I could never understand why lots of people on this forum like The X Factor so much. To me, it was too quiet and tame, compared to what Powerslave or other Maiden albums had to offer. And then this past summer happened. I had alot of time to myself, I had exhausted much of other Maiden material, and decided to give The X Factor a shot in a quiet, relaxed environment with no pressure. And now I love it! I'm not saying the same has to happen to everyone, but I think it's generally an album that comes to the fore as the listener matures in Maiden-listening.
rolpol
Invader
Natalie said:
I bought X Factor on the day of release and am still just about getting into it thirteen years later. Talk about a "grower"!
----------------
Now playing: Aerosmith - Make It
via FoxyTunes
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
The following is just my own view but I advise everyone who likes Maiden to do a first listening session "in a relaxed environment with no pressure". No chance? Just wait until that moment comes.
The real deal: the CD with booklet, or the LP. It helps a lot to appreciate it, really.
The real deal: the CD with booklet, or the LP. It helps a lot to appreciate it, really.
InfiniteDreamer
Trooper
Hey LooseCannon, no offenses buddy ! You don't have to act like that when someone doesn't agree with your preferences. I don't do serious drugs mate, not even light ones !
Oh...I lied ! I did it once. When I bought X Factor...a record done by a band formerly known as Iron Maiden and that became Iron Maiden again after Blaze was discarded.
Bought it. Listened to it 2 times. Gave it to my dog as a frisbee. He loved it.
When you have a topic called "the worst of the beast" you have to be more flexible and accept other points of view. For me (again ME) Blaze years were embarassing. You may find that period "golden" and I will respect that.
If you guys have nervous breakdown whenever people express their opinions you'd better ban everyone (starting with me) who's not very fond of Blaze years and launch a new forum with 10 people (are there 10 Blaze fans in the planet ? Wow...quite a number !).
Cheers mate. Have a Guinness end enjoy the day.
Oh...I lied ! I did it once. When I bought X Factor...a record done by a band formerly known as Iron Maiden and that became Iron Maiden again after Blaze was discarded.
Bought it. Listened to it 2 times. Gave it to my dog as a frisbee. He loved it.
When you have a topic called "the worst of the beast" you have to be more flexible and accept other points of view. For me (again ME) Blaze years were embarassing. You may find that period "golden" and I will respect that.
If you guys have nervous breakdown whenever people express their opinions you'd better ban everyone (starting with me) who's not very fond of Blaze years and launch a new forum with 10 people (are there 10 Blaze fans in the planet ? Wow...quite a number !).
Cheers mate. Have a Guinness end enjoy the day.
Well, mate. I am not going to tell you my opinion is better than mine, or vice versa. But I am going to challenge your opinions. I not only feel that you're wrong, but I feel you're being disrespectful, if not to me, (and you're not), then perhaps to the band you profess to love. I'd think that someone would give various albums more than one listen before destroying the disc.
Lots of people like the Blaze years. If you want mathematical proof, check out the polls at www.maidenfans.com/imc. These are anonymous polls and you will find that most Blaze-era songs rank well, higher than songs from the Bruce albums of the 1990s, for instance. I don't have the full numbers with me (I am at work) but I do recall at least two Blaze songs ended up in the top 20.
So, to summate, I was being mildly sarcastic at an opinion that seems by your own admission uninformed, and poking fun at you slightly. Since you seem comfortable with sarcasm, I didn't think you'd mind.
Lots of people like the Blaze years. If you want mathematical proof, check out the polls at www.maidenfans.com/imc. These are anonymous polls and you will find that most Blaze-era songs rank well, higher than songs from the Bruce albums of the 1990s, for instance. I don't have the full numbers with me (I am at work) but I do recall at least two Blaze songs ended up in the top 20.
So, to summate, I was being mildly sarcastic at an opinion that seems by your own admission uninformed, and poking fun at you slightly. Since you seem comfortable with sarcasm, I didn't think you'd mind.
Dr. Eddies Wingman
Brighter than thousand_suns
There's also a difference between "not being so fond of the Blaze years" and stating that Iron Maiden ceased to exist as a band in 1994 just to be reborn in 1999. There's a difference between finding Blaze inferior to Bruce and trash talking him.
When someone writes
one can think that the one who wrote it is either:
- An ignorant, disrespectful wanker who thinks those who disagree with him are stupid
- A person who uses sarcasm and overstatements to express his opinions.
If the latter is the case, then the person in question should handle it well when he gets a sarcastic response from someone who disagree with him, and no damage is done. If the former is the case, he deserves sarcastic comments.
When someone writes
InfiniteDreamer said:
one can think that the one who wrote it is either:
- An ignorant, disrespectful wanker who thinks those who disagree with him are stupid
- A person who uses sarcasm and overstatements to express his opinions.
If the latter is the case, then the person in question should handle it well when he gets a sarcastic response from someone who disagree with him, and no damage is done. If the former is the case, he deserves sarcastic comments.
InfiniteDreamer
Trooper
LooseCannon & Eddies Wingman
First, yes, I do use sarcasm on my comments, maybe I like it, maybe it's my personality. Is there a law that prohibits that ? Yes, you have the right to be sarcastic to me as long as you don't offend me. When LooseCannon mentioned "did I do serious drugs" I considered that personal offense. When I'm being sarcastic I'm doing so at Blaze/Maiden/X Factor...not at you. When EddiesWingman mentions "ignorant", "wanker" that's offending me again. Just don't offend me and everything will be fine. If you offend me, I will offend you for sure, then I will be banned. Is it good for you ? If that's what you want just let me know then I don't try to defend myself here.
Second, I won't check the polls at Maiden Fans. Before you accuse me of ignorant give me the real deal numbers of Iron Maiden record sales. I bet that XFactor and Virtual XI sold less than what Aces High single sold up to these days. Another good number concerns concert audience. Again, I bet that the audience dropped quite a lot during XFactor & Virtual XI tours. Ask Rod how much money the band did during those years. Why did the band had to launch "Best of's " in shape of heads, boxes, from the DiAnno/Dickinson era during that time ? Classic marketing gimmick. When the team is playing bad put on air the championship years.
Third, Iron Maiden for me is not "a matter of life and death". I'm not that maniac. I've got a lot to do in my life. Is it my favorite band ? Oh yes it is. Do I have hundreds of Maiden items at home ? An autographed guitar ? Yes I do. But I would never jump at someone's neck at a record store if the guy says he thinks Janick sucks. Iron Maiden don't pay my bills (although I help them pay theirs..."1 buck in every million", but a buck). That's ignorance. That's stupidity. If I don't do that when my football (football not NFL) team loses and fans of other teams keep pissing me off, why would I do that with a band ???? Even when it comes to rankings that put Jack White or Kurt Cobain in a better place than Jimmy Page or EVH I dont do that.
Back to the topic again. "The Worst of the Beast". We're here to hear what people don't like about the band. To be honest there are things that bother me even more that just a so-so, below average song. When listening to a band I always go after the quality of it. The musicianship of the players, the songwriting, things like that. For me the day Blaze reaches the high pitched notes Bruce reaches than I will respect him more. For me Blaze never suited the band style. Blaze would be great at a hardcore band but not Maiden (again, don't say I'm ignorant, stupid, it's my opinion gentlemen). Maybe he would suit better than DiAnno in that "Rockfellas" band I showed you on the previous posts.
That's what I have to say. I know it's not very fair trying to defend myself against a Cannon and a Wingman, but if I have to, I will.
cheers and keep the peace.
Marcus
First, yes, I do use sarcasm on my comments, maybe I like it, maybe it's my personality. Is there a law that prohibits that ? Yes, you have the right to be sarcastic to me as long as you don't offend me. When LooseCannon mentioned "did I do serious drugs" I considered that personal offense. When I'm being sarcastic I'm doing so at Blaze/Maiden/X Factor...not at you. When EddiesWingman mentions "ignorant", "wanker" that's offending me again. Just don't offend me and everything will be fine. If you offend me, I will offend you for sure, then I will be banned. Is it good for you ? If that's what you want just let me know then I don't try to defend myself here.
Second, I won't check the polls at Maiden Fans. Before you accuse me of ignorant give me the real deal numbers of Iron Maiden record sales. I bet that XFactor and Virtual XI sold less than what Aces High single sold up to these days. Another good number concerns concert audience. Again, I bet that the audience dropped quite a lot during XFactor & Virtual XI tours. Ask Rod how much money the band did during those years. Why did the band had to launch "Best of's " in shape of heads, boxes, from the DiAnno/Dickinson era during that time ? Classic marketing gimmick. When the team is playing bad put on air the championship years.
Third, Iron Maiden for me is not "a matter of life and death". I'm not that maniac. I've got a lot to do in my life. Is it my favorite band ? Oh yes it is. Do I have hundreds of Maiden items at home ? An autographed guitar ? Yes I do. But I would never jump at someone's neck at a record store if the guy says he thinks Janick sucks. Iron Maiden don't pay my bills (although I help them pay theirs..."1 buck in every million", but a buck). That's ignorance. That's stupidity. If I don't do that when my football (football not NFL) team loses and fans of other teams keep pissing me off, why would I do that with a band ???? Even when it comes to rankings that put Jack White or Kurt Cobain in a better place than Jimmy Page or EVH I dont do that.
Back to the topic again. "The Worst of the Beast". We're here to hear what people don't like about the band. To be honest there are things that bother me even more that just a so-so, below average song. When listening to a band I always go after the quality of it. The musicianship of the players, the songwriting, things like that. For me the day Blaze reaches the high pitched notes Bruce reaches than I will respect him more. For me Blaze never suited the band style. Blaze would be great at a hardcore band but not Maiden (again, don't say I'm ignorant, stupid, it's my opinion gentlemen). Maybe he would suit better than DiAnno in that "Rockfellas" band I showed you on the previous posts.
That's what I have to say. I know it's not very fair trying to defend myself against a Cannon and a Wingman, but if I have to, I will.
cheers and keep the peace.
Marcus
I was dropping a joke and poking fun at you. If you're going to take it seriously, that's fine. I'm not going to ban you unless you break rules, that's not how things work here. You're still entitled to your opinions.
Also, record sales aren't a decent way to check, considering sales were down for every metal band except Metallica in the mid to late 90s. Sure, some people didn't buy the album because of Blaze, but that's too bad for them, I believe.
If you don't like Blaze, that's fine. But people will always challenge you to try things again, to maybe realize that there are other factors. I happen to disagree when you say that, "Blaze never suited the band style". This is me disagreeing with your opinion, not me telling you you're dumb, et al. I think there was a change in the style for those two albums, like we saw changes after Killers, after Powerslave, after Fear of the Dark, and it was probably to suit Blaze's voice and demeanor.
His solo stuff is quite good too.
Now, having said all that, let me speak as a moderator. If you want to use sarcasm here, please go for it. But if people sarcasm or joke back at you, don't take it too seriously. In other words, don't hand it out if you can't take it.
Also, record sales aren't a decent way to check, considering sales were down for every metal band except Metallica in the mid to late 90s. Sure, some people didn't buy the album because of Blaze, but that's too bad for them, I believe.
If you don't like Blaze, that's fine. But people will always challenge you to try things again, to maybe realize that there are other factors. I happen to disagree when you say that, "Blaze never suited the band style". This is me disagreeing with your opinion, not me telling you you're dumb, et al. I think there was a change in the style for those two albums, like we saw changes after Killers, after Powerslave, after Fear of the Dark, and it was probably to suit Blaze's voice and demeanor.
His solo stuff is quite good too.
Now, having said all that, let me speak as a moderator. If you want to use sarcasm here, please go for it. But if people sarcasm or joke back at you, don't take it too seriously. In other words, don't hand it out if you can't take it.
Ardius
Trooper
First of all, why be so defensive? You're certainly entitled to your own opinion and the ability to state it, but no-one has said anything that I can see that needs you to react this way.
Blaze in a hardcore band? Well, ok, I suppose
I would have said he's best back in Wolfsbane as a hard rock act or with his solo project which is more classic metal with a little mix of thrash perhaps. But not hardcore....I would have said Paul was more suited to that kind of thing actually. Of course, this is MY opinion. 
Ah, record sales, always an indicator of the masses, but not of the fans. Of course the most popular albums will have sold more and of course the lesser albums are only appreciated by the band's fans. But what are we really arguing here? No-one has said the Blaze years were more popular, and last time I checked popularity is almost never a brilliant indication of quality. More than than 10 people like Blaze, but obviously not more than like Bruce, point is, poeple do enjoy Blaze and appreciate his era.
So with this in mind, I think its acceptable to respond to something like this:
Are you allowed this opinion? Sure. But are people also allowed to find this opinion a tad disrespectful? Most certainly. Why are you being defensive over something that would obviously cause some kind of response? You can't expect people to accept opinions and not comment on them, and this in turn is not an attack on said opinion, just other people voicing their opposition to such an opinion.
I hope I have said something that makes sense and is not insulting, I seem to regularly word things badly
Blaze in a hardcore band? Well, ok, I suppose
I would have said he's best back in Wolfsbane as a hard rock act or with his solo project which is more classic metal with a little mix of thrash perhaps. But not hardcore....I would have said Paul was more suited to that kind of thing actually. Of course, this is MY opinion. Ah, record sales, always an indicator of the masses, but not of the fans. Of course the most popular albums will have sold more and of course the lesser albums are only appreciated by the band's fans. But what are we really arguing here? No-one has said the Blaze years were more popular, and last time I checked popularity is almost never a brilliant indication of quality. More than than 10 people like Blaze, but obviously not more than like Bruce, point is, poeple do enjoy Blaze and appreciate his era.
So with this in mind, I think its acceptable to respond to something like this:
and find it as just a little bit disrepectful to the artist.InfiniteDreamer said:
Are you allowed this opinion? Sure. But are people also allowed to find this opinion a tad disrespectful? Most certainly. Why are you being defensive over something that would obviously cause some kind of response? You can't expect people to accept opinions and not comment on them, and this in turn is not an attack on said opinion, just other people voicing their opposition to such an opinion.
I hope I have said something that makes sense and is not insulting, I seem to regularly word things badly
InfiniteDreamer
Trooper
Got your points Cannon,
I will always take the sarcasms unless they don't personally offend me (like ignorant, wanker, etc).
Ardius,
You're correct. Unless Wingman is Blaze's relative I won't tolerate any disrespect of him to me. Again, we're here talking about a band we enjoy. We are just fans. We are not brothers, fathers, uncles of those 6 blokes. When someone decides to become an artist he/she must be aware that it will rain glory and shit over their heads.
We are talking about a "public" person. Hope you guys get my point now.
cheers
Marcus
Perun,
what the hell is that picture !!!!!
Got your point.
cheers
I will always take the sarcasms unless they don't personally offend me (like ignorant, wanker, etc).
Ardius,
You're correct. Unless Wingman is Blaze's relative I won't tolerate any disrespect of him to me. Again, we're here talking about a band we enjoy. We are just fans. We are not brothers, fathers, uncles of those 6 blokes. When someone decides to become an artist he/she must be aware that it will rain glory and shit over their heads.
We are talking about a "public" person. Hope you guys get my point now.
cheers
Marcus
Perun,
what the hell is that picture !!!!!
Got your point.
cheers
____no5
Free Man
this was an excellent performance of moderation, my respects LC!
http://forum.maidenfans.com/http://foru ... 86#p205686
http://forum.maidenfans.com/http://foru ... 86#p205686
MisterAJ
Trooper
Eddies Wingman said:
No idea what that is... If it's some kinda Metallica/Ozzy feud going on, don't bother telling me, I find that stuff
Ridicules... I like some Metallica, I like some Ozzy... Don't like Sharon, though...
Ardius said:
Fixed... All the boys in the band put in a lot of hard work in those days...
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I realize that the topic has calmed down (great moderation indeed) but I still would like to say something about it.
This kind of sadistic fun (the pleasure sparks from these words) is not easy to ignore. I say this to back up everyone who has reacted (including Eddies Wingman).
However, next time we have to remember that he likes it when we're angry about his words. It's not the first time. After his review of the Brazilian gig we'll see him in 2010 or 2011 again and we don't have to be Nostradamus (or Clairvoyant) to predict the pattern. He'll say something incredibly rude about a "public" person who happens to be connected to Maiden (it's boring to do that on a forum of another band). Then acts like nothing has happened and makes peace signs. It's just an attitude, an act.
Ardius, don't worry, you made yourself very clear.
InfiniteDreamer said:
This kind of sadistic fun (the pleasure sparks from these words) is not easy to ignore. I say this to back up everyone who has reacted (including Eddies Wingman).
However, next time we have to remember that he likes it when we're angry about his words. It's not the first time. After his review of the Brazilian gig we'll see him in 2010 or 2011 again and we don't have to be Nostradamus (or Clairvoyant) to predict the pattern. He'll say something incredibly rude about a "public" person who happens to be connected to Maiden (it's boring to do that on a forum of another band). Then acts like nothing has happened and makes peace signs. It's just an attitude, an act.
Ardius said:I hope I have said something that makes sense and is not insulting, I seem to regularly word things badly
Ardius, don't worry, you made yourself very clear.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, as long as it's backed up by something reasonable and worded respectfully and with the opinion's of others in mind. I find InfiniteDreamer's way of stating his opinion somewhat disrespectful (I get that it's sarcasm) and his opinion really quickly formed (2 listens, really?) and hence somewhat unreasonable. But I agree that this is a thread where we discuss what we don't like about the band, and if that's Blaze, then that in and of itself is fine. Still, I'd love to hear a clearer reasoning behind why Blaze sucks (or a simple, it didn't suit my taste), instead of using commonly unreliable statistics to back your cause (record sales in a time when metal was generally unpopular doesn't prove anything). I know lots of big time fans of Maiden dislike Blaze and the direction the band took during those years, and it's definately silly to try and love Blaze just because he was in Maiden (detestable fanboyism), but I think most people here like Blaze for legitimate reasons so it would be great if the topic of Blaze in general could be treated legitimately (whether you like or dislike him). Just my 2 cents.