The Worst of the Beast

I don't see why people hate No Prayer so much. It's been first to go in the album elimination thread.
 
I guess it's because it doesn't contain any really memorable songs (in the opinion of the majority). The other albums between SSOASS and BNW all contain songs that are appreciated by many, many fans (like Fear of the Dark, Sign of the Cross, The Clansman). I'm not saying that I personally don't find any songs on No Prayer good(for example, I really like "Mother Russia"), but the album has no tracks that have been embraced by the wide Maiden community (oh crap, I'm talking in cliches).

Fear of the Dark has more candidates than No Prayer in the "worst Maiden song" category, but it also has a couple of great songs and some very good. Same goes for the Blaze albums.
 
Zare said:
I don't see why people hate No Prayer so much. It's been first to go in the album elimination thread.
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Neither do I, this album, with the exception of Hooks in You, is very consistent throughout and every track is good to quite good. And Tailgunner is one of Maidens best album opener. Far better than Fear of the Dark.

The one track that everyone seems to really dislike is Angel and the Gambler - and I just don't get it. It's an absolutely brilliant track. I love it and when I play I sometimes don't want it to end (please note, I am not been sarcastic as I do have a genuine fondness of this track).

The only Blaze track that really does make me reach for that skip button is Judgement of Heaven and Weekend Warrior makes me shudder. And the afore mentioned Hooks in You.....is not worth mentioning. :D
 
Eddies Wingman, is it better to have a record with 90% of the tracks in average-good-verygood area, than have one with 2-3 premium class tracks and rest of it down the drain? I'm talking about Fear Of The Dark. The title track is a blast (especially live), ATSS, Judas Be My Guide. Wasting Love, Fear Is The Key are good. Rest of it? All worthy of a "worst of the beast" candidate.

Neither do I, this album, with the exception of Hooks in You, is very consistent throughout and every track is good to quite good. And Tailgunner is one of Maidens best album opener. Far better than Fear of the Dark.
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Exactly. No Prayer is seriously underdeveloped. If it wasn't, it would be huge. Tracks like Fates Warning, title track, Public Enema Number One...great stuff.
Can you hear a bit of SiT on the album...especially in Fates Warning? Guitar sound is esentially the same, but it's not packed with FXs like on SiT. There are synths also. General album production seems alike.

The one track that everyone seems to really dislike is Angel and the Gambler - and I just don't get it. It's an absolutely brilliant track. I love it and when I play I sometimes don't want it to end (please note, I am not been sarcastic as I do have a genuine fondness of this track).
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I don't despise the track, i just don't like half of it. No, not that half, i don't like the first half. Too happy for me, especially with that Hammond in the background. I really love the repetition part, it's a great buildup to the traditional rock-solos section. Lyrics are...meh. I also respect the fact that Steve decided to release a 7 minute long single consisting of four chords, in the time when Maiden was at it's lowest (in terms of sales, popularity, concert crowds etc). Like saying "fuck you, we're Maiden, we do what we want!"
 
Zare said:
Eddies Wingman, is it better to have a record with 90% of the tracks in average-good-verygood area, than have one with 2-3 premium class tracks and rest of it down the drain? I'm talking about Fear Of The Dark. The title track is a blast (especially live), ATSS, Judas Be My Guide. Wasting Love, Fear Is The Key are good. Rest of it? All worthy of a "worst of the beast" candidate.
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Well, if you read my "general albums rating" list, you'll find that I have rated No Prayer higher than Fear of the Dark. I just point to a possible reason why No Prayer receives so little praise. I agree totally that it is more consistent than FOTD, but it does not have any songs that are widely seen as classics.

I must also say that when it comes to good/bad songs on Fear of the Dark, I disagree on your choices - I think Fear is the Key and Wasting Love belong in the "filler" compartment on the album together with a few others - on the other hand I really like Childhood's End (and lately, The Fugitive ...). But overall I like No Prayer better as an album ...
 
I didn't think you like FOTD better than No Prayer, i just gave some opinions on the No Prayer side, for the sake of discussion. Regarding Wasting Love, i have to disagree with you. Singles can't be filler tracks.
 
Maybe not, but they can still be among the weaker tracks of the album ... If I should group the tracks on Fear of the Dark into categories, I'd do it the following way:

Classics: Fear of the dark, Afraid to shoot strangers
Very good songs: Childhood's End, The Fugitive, Judas Be My Guide
OK songs: Be Quick or be Dead, Wasting Love, Weekend Warrior (yes, WW has its moments ...)
Candidates for skipping: From Here to Eternity, Fear is the Key, Chains of Misery, The Apparition.

As Maiden has produced lots and lots and lots of songs I would categorize either as "Classics" or "Very good" in this rating system, the four "skipping candidates" are all candidates for a "worst of the Beast" list.
 
Zare said:
I don't see why people hate No Prayer so much. It's been first to go in the album elimination thread.
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*rant mode on*

Am I allowed to make an unpopular suggestion? It was voted away in 5 days.

5

That number is probably bigger than the amount of spins (chances) the album was given by the average forum member who voted against it.

In 1990 a lot of people on this forum didn't know Maiden. Another category (the classic fan) took a long break. It was their "passive" period. In 1999 and 2000 some people suddenly returned and some of them still don't realize what they've missed, or can't accept the idea that they could have missed something good. "I was away, so that's why I dislike that period the most, so that's why I dislike those albums the most".

Perhaps more important: Maiden themselves don't pay much attention to the early nineties albums, their own darker, less pleasant/fruitful years (Grunge!). This era suffers from the Burnt Offerings syndrom. The band prefers other stuff, plays less of it, and the material is featured less on compilations.

At the moment, this particular era is simply the most unknown era. First people try to acquaintance themselves with the Blaze years. That comes first. Next turn is for NPFTD & FOTD.

Will this negativity change? I do think so:
People tend to pick up songs from concerts, so that's why a next history tour focussing more on the early nineties might change some ideas.
Example: Since 2008 I see much more positive posts about Rime compared to the period before that.
 
Really? I thought songs like Rime ... and Powerslave had always been fan favourites.


[bucket of cold water mode]
As for the voting in the "album elimination thread" - who voted out No Prayer? Wasn't it mostly old timers of this forum? People who have most likely listened to all the albums many times, and still simply think No Prayer is one of Maiden's weaker albums?
[/cold water]

PS; checked it out. The album was eliminated after a massive effort from SMX and LooseCannon ... with some help from a Mongol warlord  :P
 
I think most of them are people who didn't see them live around that time. I know that all this is suggestive, but it's a theory that imo could really be the major cause of all this negativity.

Since this tour I have seen several posts about Rime, made by people who never spent a word about it before.
 
Forostar said:
At the moment, this particular era is simply the most unknown era. First people try to acquaintance themselves with the Blaze years. That comes first. Next turn is for NPFTD & FOTD.
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I agree thats its become an unknown era but I disagree that people find and listen to the Blaze years first, I've generally found its the other way around because of the ever-lingering "OMG Bruce" problem (people suggesting to new fans to buy just the Bruce albums and telling them that "Blaze sucks, etc, etc").
As for the comments about it being related to tours and ages, etc. I obviously will disagree with this as someone who only got into Maiden in around 2004 and only being born 1 year before No Prayer. This only relates to new fans but as these fans start to explore more of their catalogue, they will find the other albums and listen to them and come to their own conclusions about what sounds good and what does not.

Granted, it doesn't help impressions when Maiden don't support the material and a lot of fans don't praise it much but it isn't the entire reason why those two albums are considered the worst.
 
The tracks I ALWAYS skip when I'm listening to that record

01 - Running Free (although I LOVE the live version)
02 - Ganglang
03 - Back In The Village
04 - From Here To Eternity
05 - The Apparation
06 - Weekend Worrior
07 - The Aftermath
08 - The Angel And The Gambler
09 - Gates Of Tomorrow
 
Eddies Wingman said:
[bucket of cold water mode]
As for the voting in the "album elimination thread" - who voted out No Prayer? Wasn't it mostly old timers of this forum? People who have most likely listened to all the albums many times, and still simply think No Prayer is one of Maiden's weaker albums?
[/cold water]
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I would have voted for it but I was desperately trying to keep Virtual XI from elimination before Fear of the Dark.

I must say that I did not rate No Prayer that much when it first came out (though I did manage to catch them on that tour), but one day I put it on and started to listen to it again and changed my mind. I still don't like Hooks in You.

And From Hear to Eternity is another underrated track. Possibly the main reason for me liking tracks such as that and of Angel..., is the fun factor of it. A bit like listening to early Wolfsbane.

Zare said:
I really love the repetition part, it's a great buildup to the traditional rock-solos section.
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Yeap, nicely put.
 
Ardius said:
I agree thats its become an unknown era but I disagree that people find and listen to the Blaze years first, I've generally found its the other way around because of the ever-lingering "OMG Bruce" problem (people suggesting to new fans to buy just the Bruce albums and telling them that "Blaze sucks, etc, etc").
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That was more around 1995-2002/2003.

Since 2002/2003 the Blaze work got more and more recognition, especially TXF.

Ardius said:
As for the comments about it being related to tours and ages, etc. I obviously will disagree with this as someone who only got into Maiden in around 2004 and only being born 1 year before No Prayer. This only relates to new fans but as these fans start to explore more of their catalogue, they will find the other albums and listen to them and come to their own conclusions about what sounds good and what does not.
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I am not sure about that. Especially not in this mp3 culture where individual songs are more important than complete albums, and when people hardly play an album more than once to develop an individual opinion, and to give an album a chance to grow. Because they have 6000 other songs on their harddisk.
 
I personally think that No Prayer is a vastly underrated album, with some of the band's best songs like the title track, Tailgunner or Mother Russia. But I wouldn't call anybody who dislikes this album ignorant. Sometimes, people just don't like an album, no matter how often they listened to it. No Prayer got a hell of a lot of recognition when it came out, but it's always been rated pretty low by people.

And I'm not taking the album elimination thread seriously one bit. I chuckled slightly when I saw LC and SMX taking their turns to get No Prayer down as soon as possible. It was obviously just a huge joke.
 
Perun said:
And I'm not taking the album elimination thread seriously one bit. I chuckled slightly when I saw LC and SMX taking their turns to get No Prayer down as soon as possible. It was obviously just a huge joke.
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It was the real Coalition of the Willing.
 
I bought NPFTD and FOTD on cassette when they first came out.  Wore out both of the tapes trying to like them, but just never did like them.  I had seen SSOASS in concert and didn't think the next two lived up to SSOASS, for me.  I didn't listen to any Maiden after that until DOD (which I love).
 
Perun said:
I personally think that No Prayer is a vastly underrated album, with some of the band's best songs like the title track, Tailgunner or Mother Russia. But I wouldn't call anybody who dislikes this album ignorant. Sometimes, people just don't like an album, no matter how often they listened to it. No Prayer got a hell of a lot of recognition when it came out, but it's always been rated pretty low by people.

And I'm not taking the album elimination thread seriously one bit. I chuckled slightly when I saw LC and SMX taking their turns to get No Prayer down as soon as possible. It was obviously just a huge joke.
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underrated
underappreciated
underplayed
neglected
ignored

Different terms. Same result, not? ;)

Wasted155 said:
I bought NPFTD and FOTD on cassette when they first came out.  Wore out both of the tapes trying to like them, but just never did like them.  I had seen SSOASS in concert and didn't think the next two lived up to SSOASS, for me.  I didn't listen to any Maiden after that until DOD (which I love).
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You surely tried to like these albums. A long time ago. Unfortunately you missed those tours, which could have helped to still enjoy and follow the band. No Prayer was a kind of live sounding album, and all the songs worked excellent on stage. Did you play these albums lately again, or has it really been 15-16 years ago, and do you think you'll be stuck with that feeling forever?

I can imagine where you come from. Maiden's transition from Seventh Son to No Prayer was not the easiest, I assume. I got into the band in 1991 myself.
 
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