The Three Amigos solos & songwriting stats per Maiden album (2000-2015)

[Edington]

Something to keep in mind is that while Janick doesn't take as many solos as the others, he is playing a lot of the lead melodies, even in songs he didn't write. Just off the top of my head, Jan's all over For the Greater Good of God, When the Wild Wind Blows, Empire of the Clouds*, harmonises the pre-chorus melody with Adrian in Speed of Light. It certainly takes a fair amount of skill to cleanly play some of those lines for 10+ minutes in some cases, so I doubt anyone in Maiden really thinks Jan isn't up to scratch.


*Though I'll still say it's a travesty he didn't solo on this song. He could've pulled a killer one over the "Here lie their dreams..." rhythm.

 

[Mosh]

^That’s actually a really good point. A lot of the melodic style of the modern epics started in the 90s with Gers playing the melodies and that still continues to this day. Adrian gets two solos on WTWWB, but all those big melodies in the song are Janick.

The interview tidbits from @Black Abyss Babe are pretty interesting. For one thing, Adrian says that Dave gets to play everything but this is for an album where Adrian played a solo on every song (just a funny irony, Adrian is generally correct here). I think Adrian also has a more accurate read on the situation than Janick. It’s clearly not about who is best suited to the song because whichever guitarist wrote the song is guaranteed to solo. We’ve never heard, and probably will never hear, a guitarist write a song but someone else takes the solo.

That being said, which guitarist takes the second solo does have more to do with what fits the song. We can get a lot of insight from BTATS, the only instance where Janick plays the other guitar solo in an Adrian song. How many Adrian smith penned songs have fast manic parts in the vein of the section that Janick solos over? It’s pretty unusual for an Adrian song and it’s perfect for Janick’s soloing style. On the other hand, a lot of Janick penned songs tend to be more uptempo and fit that manic soloing style. I don’t think Adrian’s style would necessarily fit on The Talisman or The Alchemist, for example.

I also think Dave is allowed a bit of seniority here, and that might be why he is often chosen. Adrian and Janick have both been the second guitarist to Dave before the three guitar lineup so those combinations have been developed much more.

 

[srfc]

We’ve never heard, and probably will never hear, a guitarist write a song but someone else takes the solo.

I'm not posting this to be a smart arse or dispute your point, but The Mercenary has no Janick solo.

And your point re: Dave's seniority is spot on and I think that's what Adrian was really meaning with his joke about Dave playing everything.

I think the whole thing really boils down to, Dave is the longest serving, then Adrian writes a bit more than Janick so that's why the stats have Janick playing less.

I think H is also more likely to mess around in the studio, the theremin effect solo in Lord of Light is something he just tried in the studio and it was used on the album, in a spot that had been earmarked for a Janick solo.

 

[Gk1]

Janick's D-tuned acoustic intros in The legacy and the Talisman alone show how great of a musician he is!

 

[Mosh]

I'm not posting this to be a smart arse or dispute your point, but The Mercenary has no Janick solo.

And your point re: Dave's seniority is spot on and I think that's what Adrian was really meaning with his joke about Dave playing everything.

I think the whole thing really boils down to, Dave is the longest serving, then Adrian writes a bit more than Janick so that's why the stats have Janick playing less.

I think H is also more likely to mess around in the studio, the theremin effect solo in Lord of Light is something he just tried in the studio and it was used on the album, in a spot that had been earmarked for a Janick solo.

Well that’s super interesting, never really noticed that. I suppose that definitely does dispute at least some of my point, there’s probably more truth to what Janick said than what I gave credit for. It’s an interesting decision, Murray even plays more “Janick-y” in his solo.

 

[srfc]

I never noticed it myself either. someone else had it on one of those Maiden trivia thread either on here or the official forum at some stage.

 

[Forostar]

Adrian writes a bit more than Janick so that's why the stats have Janick playing less.

Yep.

I think it comes down to this: Adrian had been taking the most songs on the last albums, therefore having the most influence on what happens in these.

A pattern (which Adrian acknowledged, see Black Abyss Babe post) has evolved where he shares the second solo much rather with Dave than with Janick. Bruce has done the same. That's it. 1 + 1 = 2.

Sorry to be inconvenient for some, but there is no opinion or narrative. These are the facts. It's counted. S.t.a.t.s.

That makes the difference in the amount of Janick solos. Call it politics, call it quality, call it the way he writes, call it preference for Dave, have your pick.

In 6 days we can see what happens on the next album (less Adrian, and no "Bruce without guitarist or Bruce only"-material, so maybe more room for Janick solos).

 

[Mosh]

I definitely think this album will have the most Janick solos at least since Dance of Death, perhaps of the whole reunion era.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Yep.

I think it comes down to this: Adrian had been taking the most songs on the last albums, therefore having the most influence on what happens in these.

A pattern (which Adrian acknowledged, see Black Abyss Babe post) has evolved where he shares the second solo much rather with Dave than with Janick. Bruce has done the same. That's it. 1 + 1 = 2.

Sorry to be inconvenient for some, but there is no opinion or narrative. These are the facts. It's counted. S.t.a.t.s.

That makes the difference in the amount of Janick solos. Call it politics, call it quality, call it the way he writes, call it preference for Dave, have your pick.

In 6 days we can see what happens on the next album (less Adrian, and no "Bruce without guitarist or Bruce only"-material, so maybe more room for Janick solos).

Disagreed, you are interpreting the stats in a very arbitrary way. There is no indication in her post about what Smith wanted, only what happened, which is not an added value to your statistic - it is the same data. He said usually Dave takes it, but he does not say whether he approached Gers for that particular song first. There is also no info as to why he performed the Digitech Whammy part of Lord of Light as opposed to Gers doing a solo.

Did he say, hold on I think I have a better idea for this bridge, or Gers didn't feel the right feels to make a solo, or he did but then Smith came up with the octaver part and then Gers insisted that Smith wraps up that section?

Maybe he was in bathroom snorting coke meanwhile someone else comes up with a solo.

A pre-planned thing from certain songwriters to shove Janick aside, at least in solo department couldn't be more away from truth. If there's any preference for Dave it's because Dave is Dave. Even his weakest solos reek of Iron Maiden signature sound.

 

[GhostofCain]

I'm not posting this to be a smart arse or dispute your point, but The Mercenary has no Janick solo.

Sun and Steel does not feature a solo by Adrian Smith either.

 

[Poto]

Janick only getting four solos on AMOLAD when he was making Dave Murray sound like a beginner is a scandal if there ever was one.

 

[srfc]

Disagreed, you are interpreting the stats in a very arbitrary way. There is no indication in her post about what Smith wanted, only what happened, which is not an added value to your statistic - it is the same data. He said usually Dave takes it, but he does not say whether he approached Gers for that particular song first. There is also no info as to why he performed the Digitech Whammy part of Lord of Light as opposed to Gers doing a solo.

Did he say, hold on I think I have a better idea for this bridge, or Gers didn't feel the right feels to make a solo, or he did but then Smith came up with the octaver part and then Gers insisted that Smith wraps up that section?

Maybe he was in bathroom snorting coke meanwhile someone else comes up with a solo.

A pre-planned thing from certain songwriters to shove Janick aside, at least in solo department couldn't be more away from truth. If there's any preference for Dave it's because Dave is Dave. Even his weakest solos reek of Iron Maiden signature sound.

Re: Lord of Light

It's in Shirley's diary I think, circumstances were as I said, Adrian just tried it after the section for his solo, and they decided to keep it, so Janick lost that slot.

I'd say Janick probably wasn't there, I doubt he'd be hanging round the studio all day if it was a day for Adrian to overdub solos.

 

[____no5]

Thanks @Forostar & all for your contributions. Very interesting posts by many people.

Today I listened carefully Brighten Than a Thousand Suns. Janick's solo is an absolute killer, one of the best from the reunion era.
Also: More Adrian -Janick solos please.

 

[____no5]

A pre-planned thing from certain songwriters to shove Janick aside, at least in solo department couldn't be more away from truth. If there's any preference for Dave it's because Dave is Dave. Even his weakest solos reek of Iron Maiden signature sound.

It's not necessarily so consciously bad, not completely innocent either. It could have started from Adrian merely wanted more room, which led to him writing more material. Murray served as a natural alliance in this quest. Then dynamics started to shift after BNW.
There's no solid proof of the above, but only one Adrian -Janick solo in 20 years? That's a hard sell.

PS: In the end, this competition may have been the drive behind Paschendale, Brighter, The Legacy and now Stratego.

 

[srfc]

Just listening to BNW now, and H really eased himself back into the band, hardly any solos and song writing credits compared to now when he is effectively the 2nd songwriter after Steve.

 

[Forostar]

Disagreed, you are interpreting the stats in a very arbitrary way. There is no indication in her post about what Smith wanted, only what happened, which is not an added value to your statistic - it is the same data.

Apart from his erroneous bit on songs which Janick wrote, Adrian said what is counted. So it is a confirmation of what is counted. Or the counting is a confirmation of what we heard, thought, knew and of what he said.

He said usually Dave takes it, but he does not say whether he approached Gers for that particular song first. There is also no info as to why he performed the Digitech Whammy part of Lord of Light as opposed to Gers doing a solo.

Did he say, hold on I think I have a better idea for this bridge, or Gers didn't feel the right feels to make a solo, or he did but then Smith came up with the octaver part and then Gers insisted that Smith wraps up that section?

Maybe he was in bathroom snorting coke meanwhile someone else comes up with a solo.

A pre-planned thing from certain songwriters to shove Janick aside, at least in solo department couldn't be more away from truth. If there's any preference for Dave it's because Dave is Dave. Even his weakest solos reek of Iron Maiden signature sound.

The result is what counts, and that is what was preferred.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

PS: In the end, this competition may have been the drive behind Paschendale, Brighter, The Legacy and now Stratego.

I'm not sold at all about the competition thing. There is not a single piece of evidence for it, apart from the context being tied to quantifiable values, where one can claim that more is more but can't be certain of it. Not everyone is a 80s hair type guitar ego.

As a guitar player, as a lead guitar player, fuck playing solo on each and every song. There is nothing more boring than someone saying 'just put N bars of solo there', preceded by opinion that some practice lick is good enough to be the solo.

I still stand by my opinion that unless Gers starts speaking publicly about something, this is all moot.
Music is not a competition, at least Iron Maiden isn't.

Are you missing a particular Gers solo? Did he do something somewhere, and it makes you go, why didn't he do this in IM song X, that's pretty unjust that Smith or Murray took his hypothetical slot? Don't understand where these numbers take us. Do I have to rate lower The Final Frontier or Brave New World just because they're not "balanced" in solo spotlights?

 

[Forostar]

Are you missing a particular Gers solo? Did he do something somewhere, and it makes you go, why didn't he do this in IM song X, that's pretty unjust that Smith or Murray took his hypothetical slot? Don't understand where these numbers take us. Do I have to rate lower The Final Frontier or Brave New World just because they're not "balanced" in solo spotlights?

I don't. And it's hard to unthink the products as we have gotten used to. So, I rather not change anything in the past.

But that does not mean that we cannot measure a pattern (count dry results).

But I've seen that as soon as we speculate on the why and how, this becomes a more sensitive matter. Still I maintain that using the word preference or preferred is not really going too far. If that would have gone too far, Maiden would release these results against their own will, their own preference.

So I do not think that all these results, these particular solos in all these songs just "happened". As if Adrian writes a song, and Dave teleports immediately into the room and plays his solo. That's it, the rest of the world, space, time and thought do not exist.

Of course Dave was asked, he was suggested to do these solos. Why was he suggested? Because he was wanted. Why was he (in total, as counted) wanted more often than somebody else? Because he was preferred. If he was wanted less often, then he was not preferred. It would really, really be silly to think that Janick was not into question because he was not available. If he was not available, clearly someone did not stop him from going away. And/or clearly someone did not want to wait for him to be available again. In the end, if someone who has a say in this really thought it would be good to have more Janick solos in certain spots, then that would have happened. But it didn't. In the end, Dave's solos were preferred over every other alternative or attempt (by someone else included, if we do not wish to rule that out) that was tried or not tried before it.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Yes because Dave's usual licks are Maiden's signature sound. I think that's clear as the sky.

They could play jazz fusion and the moment they go to 4/4 with Murray taking the solo even a deaf person would say - hey that's Iron Maiden. Don't underestimate the potential of this tool.

 

[____no5]

I'm not sold at all about the competition thing. There is not a single piece of evidence for it, apart from the context being tied to quantifiable values, where one can claim that more is more but can't be certain of it. Not everyone is a 80s hair type guitar ego.

There's no concrete evidence, just assumptions.

Are you missing a particular Gers solo?

Right out of the bat I can't think of any. That been said his solo on BTATS is too good and makes me dream of more Adrian /Gers solos in the future.