The songwriters behind the first three Iron Maiden albums

efekåseo_suomi said:
So this is probably going to be a controversal thread, but what I've gathered so far is the following:

  • Prowler by Dennis Willcock, Steve Harris, Dave Sullivan & Terry Rance
  • Running Free by Paul Dianno, Steve Harris “drum pattern” by Doug Sampson
  • Phantom Of The Opera by Dennis Willcock, Terry Wapram, Tony Moore, Barry Purkis, Harris
  • Transylvania, vocals with Willcock, vocals removed. Harris, Sullivan, Rance.
  • Strange World, lyrics by Paul Day, uncredited, Dave Sullivan, Steve Harris, Terry Rance and Ron Matthews,
  • Charlotte The Harlot, Dave Murray and Dennis Willcock

Iron Maiden (Harris) [music by Dave Sullivan and Terry Rance, lyrics contribution by Dennis Willcock, uncredited]
Sanctuary (Iron Maiden) [written by Bob Sawyer, sold to Iron Maiden]
The Ides of March (Harris) [and Barry Purkis, uncredited; initial melody idea by Tony Moore, uncredited]
Wrathchild (Harris) [music contributions by Dave Sullivan & Terry Rance, uncredited]
Innocent Exile (Harris) [music contributions by Dave Sullivan & Terry Rance, uncredited]

Am I missing anything? Did Adrian write anything for Killers? What songs did Bruce contribute to TNOTB? Was there another songwriter for 22 Acacia Avenue (old Urchin song). We also have the 'Life's Shadow' controversy..
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This again? Yezz as @Magnus has said. This has been discussed elsewhere, however, here it goes with an explanation first.

If someone just says, "why don't you play this bit faster?" or, "Why don't you play this like that?" or "Should be something like this" Should that person get a writting credit? This is the case with Sullivan and Rance who basically played something on suggestion of Harris, so, should they get a writting credit for that?

Have said that, if we are referring to how the songs originally sounded...

'Prowler' - Wilcock, Harris
Running Free - Di'Anno, Harris, Sampson
Phantom - Wilcock, Harris, Wapram, Moore
Transylvania - Harris. The vocals never made it beyond rehearsals... Wilcock did howl over the music sometimes
Strage World - That's Day's song
Charlotte - Wilock (lyrics) / Murray (Music). The song had 3 or 4 set of lyrics between the time it was composed until it was finally recorded in 1980.
IM - Harris

Ides - Purkins, Harris
Sanctuay - Sawyer
Wrathchild - Harris
Innocent Exile - Dave Smith / Harris
Adrian didn't "write" anything for Killers and, as a matter of fact, his input was partly modifying what Stratton had already laid on tape on rehearsals. He did write the music to 'Twilight Zone' with Dave.

Bruce - Prisoner (lyrics), RTTH (small parts of the lyrics and some suggestions about the music, but mostly written by Harris), Children Of The Damned (parts of the lyrics and music) and Gangland (lyrics)

22 AA is Smith song 95%, Steve input was by slightly altering the lyrics to the original Urchin song.

You can learn more here>

Paper Back: http://bit.ly/3wuKMJ5
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Luisma said:
This again? Yezz as @Magnus has said. This has been discussed elsewhere, however, here it goes with an explanation first.

If someone just says, "why don't you play this bit faster?" or, "Why don't you play this like that?" or "Should be something like this" Should that person get a writting credit? This is the case with Sullivan and Rance who basically played something on suggestion of Harris, so, should they get a writting credit for that?
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Legally, no bloody way. Writing credit is issued for song structure, lyrics and chord progressions/music. Strictly speaking (and the contributors can determine for themselves if they want to give credit for, a riff or whatever over a already decided chord progression or whatever), this negates writing credits for vocal melody etcetera if it isn't significant enough. Tempo in itself does not warrant a writing credit by any legal standard.
 
Yax said:
Legally, no bloody way. Writing credit is issued for song structure, lyrics and chord progressions/music. Strictly speaking (and the contributors can determine for themselves if they want to give credit for, a riff or whatever over a already decided chord progression or whatever), this negates writing credits for vocal melody etcetera if it isn't significant enough. Tempo in itself does not warrant a writing credit by any legal standard.
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Exactly! Some people think that Sullivan and Rance should have gotten a writing credit just because they played a certain chord or progression even when the idea for the song/melody wise what's not their idea
 
Luisma said:
Exactly! Some people think that Sullivan and Rance should have gotten a writing credit just because they played a certain chord or progression even when the idea for the song/melody wise what's not their idea
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Well, if they did contribute chord progressions then that might very well justify a writing credit - it should, even (chords = songwriting). If they had come up with a little riff on top of a chord progression written by Steve, then that's probably a different situation.

But for instance, Sebastian Bach somehow believes that a scream here and there on Skid Row's debut is melody writing - No, it's not. The Skid Row demos with the pre-Bach singer had the vocal melodies mapped out. Bach throwing in a scream at one point or two is not a significant contribution and hence, no writing credit. Their former manager had to explain that to him on a reality show 20 years back when Bach was flipping out on him. Didn't help, he still doesn't understand.
 
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Couple things:

- I understand that it is an arduous task, but if we’re going to compile the “actual” Maiden songwriting credits, it would nice to have sources for everything. Some of these are well known, others aren’t, regardless as far as I have seen this information hasn’t been comprehensively organized in a public site.

- the Dickinson writing credits on TNOTB is a fascinating topic for a variety of reasons. For one thing, Steve and Bruce rarely collaborate directly. If the uncredited contributions are accurate, we have two on one album alone, not again until Seventh Son. Gangland and Prisoner seem obviously Bruce, also making The Prisoner the first Smith/Harris/Dickinson credit and the last again until Seventh Son. I’m curious what changed to prevent Steve and Bruce from collaborating closely again until 1988 as well as how they were able to work together so much on their first album together especially in light of the inner conflict between the two on the early tours.

- On Run to the Hills. I wonder what the behind the scenes business dealings were. Being one of their most famous songs, Bruce is probably missing out on some serious royalty cash for his uncredited writing contributions. Whatever legal block prevented him from getting credit then probably isn’t relevant now. I’m a bit surprised that these credits weren’t retroactively fixed for any of the reissues of the album.
 
Mosh said:
Couple things:

- I understand that it is an arduous task, but if we’re going to compile the “actual” Maiden songwriting credits, it would nice to have sources for everything. Some of these are well known, others aren’t, regardless as far as I have seen this information hasn’t been comprehensively organized in a public site.

- the Dickinson writing credits on TNOTB is a fascinating topic for a variety of reasons. For one thing, Steve and Bruce rarely collaborate directly. If the uncredited contributions are accurate, we have two on one album alone, not again until Seventh Son. Gangland and Prisoner seem obviously Bruce, also making The Prisoner the first Smith/Harris/Dickinson credit and the last again until Seventh Son. I’m curious what changed to prevent Steve and Bruce from collaborating closely again until 1988 as well as how they were able to work together so much on their first album together especially in light of the inner conflict between the two on the early tours.

- On Run to the Hills. I wonder what the behind the scenes business dealings were. Being one of their most famous songs, Bruce is probably missing out on some serious royalty cash for his uncredited writing contributions. Whatever legal block prevented him from getting credit then probably isn’t relevant now. I’m a bit surprised that these credits weren’t retroactively fixed for any of the reissues of the album.
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Well you can check in the link I gave to whom I talked for my book, is basically everyone minus Rob, Sullivan and Rance but did get to speak with people who were actually there from day 1 (and I still talk to them).
 
Mosh said:
On Run to the Hills. I wonder what the behind the scenes business dealings were. Being one of their most famous songs, Bruce is probably missing out on some serious royalty cash for his uncredited writing contributions. Whatever legal block prevented him from getting credit then probably isn’t relevant now. I’m a bit surprised that these credits weren’t retroactively fixed for any of the reissues of the album.
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@Luisma do you have any insights for the bolded text above? Your book is on the way, so I can still ask ;)

Speaking of which, yesterday I was given a call from the customs asking me questions about the book's content and I had to fill a declaration form with my id plus sent a screenshot of the order.. Time travelling in Soviet era!! The new no.2 :D
 
Magnus said:
Are you trying to provoke me for some particular reason Fredrik or you're just bored?
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That wasn't an attempt to provoke, considering the topic I was hoping you would find it funny. You had spoiler tags on the original post so my reason was that you would not appreciate me quoting it in the open, in a thread! Sorry about that;) (its been a while!)
 
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Mosh said:
Couple things:

- I understand that it is an arduous task, but if we’re going to compile the “actual” Maiden songwriting credits, it would nice to have sources for everything. Some of these are well known, others aren’t, regardless as far as I have seen this information hasn’t been comprehensively organized in a public site.

- the Dickinson writing credits on TNOTB is a fascinating topic for a variety of reasons. For one thing, Steve and Bruce rarely collaborate directly. If the uncredited contributions are accurate, we have two on one album alone, not again until Seventh Son. Gangland and Prisoner seem obviously Bruce, also making The Prisoner the first Smith/Harris/Dickinson credit and the last again until Seventh Son. I’m curious what changed to prevent Steve and Bruce from collaborating closely again until 1988 as well as how they were able to work together so much on their first album together especially in light of the inner conflict between the two on the early tours.

- On Run to the Hills. I wonder what the behind the scenes business dealings were. Being one of their most famous songs, Bruce is probably missing out on some serious royalty cash for his uncredited writing contributions. Whatever legal block prevented him from getting credit then probably isn’t relevant now. I’m a bit surprised that these credits weren’t retroactively fixed for any of the reissues of the album.
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Die With Your Boots On is a Smith/Dickinson/Harris song. :)
 
Mosh said:
- the Dickinson writing credits on TNOTB is a fascinating topic for a variety of reasons. For one thing, Steve and Bruce rarely collaborate directly. If the uncredited contributions are accurate, we have two on one album alone, not again until Seventh Son. Gangland and Prisoner seem obviously Bruce, also making The Prisoner the first Smith/Harris/Dickinson credit and the last again until Seventh Son. I’m curious what changed to prevent Steve and Bruce from collaborating closely again until 1988 as well as how they were able to work together so much on their first album together especially in light of the inner conflict between the two on the early tours.
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Curious info about The Prisoner indeed. Steve needed another strong songwriter in the band and the new vocalist was that person. Adrian also started writing more. I guess after 1982 Bruce just preferred to write with Adrian and Steve didn't need help for his (longer) songs as he writes everything himself.
 
Luisma said:
Adrian didn't "write" anything for Killers and, as a matter of fact, his input was partly modifying what Stratton had already laid on tape on rehearsals. He did write the music to 'Twilight Zone' with Dave.
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Im interested on Strattons input. Stratton is always talking like he brought guitar harmonies to Maiden but to me its very clear they were already there before he came in. Cant think of a song on the debut album that he could have altered . Maybe theres something on Killers
 
It's funny though, seeing how you are in darker /heavier segments of Metal and your relative disregard for post 7th Son Maiden, I didn't think you were so knowledgeable about 'em!

@Magnus
 
____no5 said:
@Luisma do you have any insights for the bolded text above? Your book is on the way, so I can still ask ;)

Speaking of which, yesterday I was given a call from the customs asking me questions about the book's content and I had to fill a declaration form with my id plus sent a screenshot of the order.. Time travelling in Soviet era!! The new no.2 :D
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Hey! Well yes. First of all, there's always some sort of legal chance to discuss the royalties stuff so publicly I don't think they will ever kind of "fix" the writting credits on those songs. However, for what I know, there is (was) a sort of internal agreement within the band in order to allow some people to gain royalties from their contributions. These agreements tend to have A LOT of legal corners and specifications, creating what we lawyers call a "Corporate Veil" which is when many companies are created in order to "hide" the natural person behind them and that receives the benefits of some stuff. Having said that, you'll be amazed at the number of companies each member (and ex-member) of Maiden have had through the years so discovering how exactly the thing works would take a good amount of time...

Having said this, if my memory serves well, the only writting credit that has been altered with reissues is 'Sanctuary', which was originally credited to either IRON MAIDEN or Harris/Murray/Di'Anno and now, only Harris.

Another interesting detail about credits not being altered is 'Charlotte The Harlot'. When Barry McKay took Harris and Murray to court, the "Maiden" legal team presented a document in which they stated, amongst other things, that "Harris wrote the lyrics to the song and the music was written by Dave, so the writting credit should say "Harris/Murray", and yet, in the reissue of the album after the case was closed because of a settlement, the writting credit of the song still remains just Murray.

P.D: Even when you have the book in your hands, you can ask whatever you want as I will gladly respond anything I know of. I cannot always speak publicly about some stuff and in the book I was careful enough not to state somethings but in private I'm always happy to share more info.
 
Kalata said:
Curious info about The Prisoner indeed. Steve needed another strong songwriter in the band and the new vocalist was that person. Adrian also started writing more. I guess after 1982 Bruce just preferred to write with Adrian and Steve didn't need help for his (longer) songs as he writes everything himself.
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A personal friend of Bruce who I have known for years conducted an interview for my book, this was when I thought I could cover the story of Steve and the band between 1973 and 1989, but since the story was cut short, and the interview part was for 84, no one has read it yet. Anyway, the question for Bruce kind of was "Why did he usually write songs with Adrian?" and here's part of his answer:

"Before joining Maiden, both, him and me had been in different bands and made records. Our experiences had shaped our own personal style and we had learned to adapt our ideas to those of others. Steve, on the other hand, has always been in Iron Maiden. He has only written for the band, in one direction, and has always developed his own ideas in that direction. That's why he often works on his own, whereas Adrian and I needed to work with someone else, and therefore often together."
 
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