The Replacements

You know, as I was typing my response to Foro, I was thinking a little about that.  NPFTD and FOTD did seem to be a 'slide' after SSOASS (imo), though I still liked them very well.  But, looking back on the entire series of events I completely agree with what you are saying, in regards to strengthening and revitalizing what Maiden is/was.  Very much like Foro's statements about Sabbath with Dio.
 
That depends on personal taste of course but I like the early 90's period of Maiden way better than the 2nd half of the 70's in the Sabbath period.

Looking at the songwriting, LC's could have a point but vocalwise I can't say that Blaze was an improvement. Besides, Blaze is on one of my least favourite Maiden albums (Virtual XI).
 
I still personally prefer Bruce, and think his addition had a greater impact.  However, I see where Blaze was a change that helped Maiden at the time. 


EDIT: I think thats the difficulty in having multiple singer changes, it can be difficult to ascertain who had the largest impact.  Both Bruce and Blaze had an positive impact, at the time, but I see Bruce's addition as one of the all time great additions.  Same with LaBrie, actually.  I know there are many here that don't like him, but I think he was a great addition to Dream Theater, and (imo) they have done nothing but get better since.
 
LooseCannon said:
I also think the years with Blaze led the band back towards the more complex songs they had become famous for in the Golden Years era.  Sign of the Cross, The Clansman, those songs are easily more indepth and complex than anything from Fear of the Dark or No Prayer For The Dying.  And that complexity carried into the new albums, with songs like Dream of Mirrors, The Nomad, Paschendale, Brighter Than A Thousand Suns, and The Legacy.

It's true that Maiden got more complex with the Blaze and post-Blaze stuff, but I don't think that's necessarily due to Blaze.  I think it might even be attributed to Janick.  Though Janick was in the band since No Prayer, I think The X Factor showed him maturing as a song writer immensely. 
He wrote Be Quick or Be Dead, Fear is the Key, Wasting Love, The Apparition, and Weekend Warrior for Fear of the Dark; all simple and not that good songs.  For the X Factor, he wrote Lord of the Flies, Man on the Edge, Look for the Truth, The Aftermath, The Edge of Darkness, and 2 A.M.  Some simple songs there, but also some more complex and meaningful ones, like Look for the Truth and The Edge of Darkness.  For Virtual XI, he wrote Como Estais Amigos, also far more advanced than his stuff on Fear of the Dark.

Of these, Blaze also had a part in writing Man on the Edge, Look for the Truth, The Aftermath, The Edge of Darkness, 2 A.M., and Como Estais Amigos.  The two were clearly a good pair at writing, much like Adrian and Bruce, but I would assume that Janick wrote more of the music and Blaze most of the lyrics (though Steve was also present in some, which mixes it up).

So I think the X Factor years showed Janick developing as a song writer, and this development can be seen in following albums, where Janick has absolutely beautiful compositions: Ghost of the Navigator, Dream of Mirrors, Out of the Silent Planet, Dance of Death, and The Legacy among others.  I think these show that it was at least equally Janick as Blaze (though I would say Janick even more) that helped Maiden in a more complex direction.
 
All I am trying to say is when Blaze arrived in Maiden, the ego struggles between Steve and Bruce ceased, and that let *everyone* spread their wings a little.  So while Blaze may not have directly contributed to it, his presence (and the lack of Bruce's presence) really helped settle things down.
 
LooseCannon said:
All I am trying to say is when Blaze arrived in Maiden, the ego struggles between Steve and Bruce ceased, and that let *everyone* spread their wings a little.  So while Blaze may not have directly contributed to it, his presence (and the lack of Bruce's presence) really helped settle things down.

Ah well, point taken. :)
 
The Unbeliever was written by Steve and Janick, Invader.

LooseCannon said:
All I am trying to say is when Blaze arrived in Maiden, the ego struggles between Steve and Bruce ceased, and that let *everyone* spread their wings a little.  So while Blaze may not have directly contributed to it, his presence (and the lack of Bruce's presence) really helped settle things down.

But in that sense *any* replacement would have done that.

Still, this ego thing wasn't that much of an issue, and there are hardly any examples of it. I don't recollect any ego things in that era to be honest.

On the contrary: his leaving was a very sudden one:
More important was that Bruce wanted to produce things apart from the band. He didn't want to have recognition just because he was in Maiden. He wanted to work for it and start all over again. So he didn't leave because of ego-problems, he just wanted to try different things and do it outside Maiden's "safe" environment. It purely had to do with Bruce himself and with no one else. But more about that in the booklets of his re-released solo albums, his best-of album and of course the official Maiden biography and the many interviews with him.


Let's be realistic, Blaze was an important factor for the downfall of the popularity of Iron Maiden. Why else did they get rid of him? Not only because Bruce came back. Why keep a singer who made the band stronger? He didn't.
 
wasted155 said:
I've tried the chat room frequently in the last three weeks and its always empty... :(  But i'll keep trying!  I do appreciate all the leads, though.  I didn't find much of either today, but did find the Alive in Athens DVD, so I got it and will be watching this eve.

I seriously consider the Alive In Athens DVD to be the best $20 I've ever spent.  Burnt Offerings is my favourite IE album, but it took me a while to get into it and appreciate the brilliance of "Creator Failure".  I'd start with Something Wicked after AIA.

Sorry, but make that Bruce, Dio, and Barlow as best replacements in my book.  They just took each band to a whole new level.  Bruce and Barlow are obvious, replacing other singers and then immediately contributing to an amazing album.  Dio is in there just because his voice replaced the fundamental weakness of Ozzy, creating the 3 best Sabbath albums in my books (Plus the only good Sabbath albums after Volume 4).

I find James Labrie to be an able replacement, until his voice accident that left him sounding terrible for the last 13 years...
 
@wasted155:
My IE recommendation (blue albums are my favs):

In the end all IE-albums with Barlow are worth getting. They are all quite different, though I find Dark Saga and SWTWC more alike than the other works.

Burnt Offerings (first album with Barlow) is a very atmospherical, dark and angry album. Long songs, including the Rime of the Ancient Mariner of IE, called "Dante's Inferno"

Night of the Stormrider has many classics tracks and should always be pursued! It is the only album featuring lead singer John Greely. Greely's vocals, which are slightly more aggressive than the power metal reminiscent vocals of Matt Barlow, fit very well to this type of material.

Dark Saga is also dark, but more melancholic and sad.

I've never been a fan of the SWTWC studio album. Reason: I discovered it after I'd heard Alive in Athens. Compared to the live versions, the SW-tracks are not that interesting and sound a bit weak. The songs which are not on AiA are fillers, while most songs of other olders albums, which are not on AiA, are cool classics.
So in a way I don't care for the studio release of SWTWC. Alive in Athens kills it.

Alive in Athens contains three discs, at the moment for the price of 10 euro (at least where I live)!

You could say that the first couple of albums were more trashy, more angry kind of metal, with a lot of impressive guitar riffs, executed by one of the best rhythm guitarists in the world. Later IE focussed more on melancholy, sadness etc. More emotion, more accessible songs but not always the best guitar riffs like in the beginning.

Just my 2 cents.
 
OK, since everybody is doing this...

Alive In Athens is the point where you should start. It's the point where I started, it's the point where everyone I know started and it's the point where I'd let your grandmother start. It's the quintessential live album, it's got the majority of the bands' songs to that point on it, and it's also extremely affordable for a three disc set.

Once you have it, you may ask yourself if there's even a point in buying the older studio material. I say do it, it's worth it. My personal favourite album of the band is Dark Saga, but maybe you'd want to get Burnt Offerings first, because only very little of it made it to Alive In Athens. Jon Schaffer said he personally hates the album, but every fan I know of disagrees with him. It is a very aggressive, angry album, but musically very brilliant.

Of course, it's alway a matter of preference. If you enjoy thrash metal, then you should get Night Of The Stormrider, which is considered by many to be a classic album of the genre. Their debut, Iced Earth is also not to be tampered with. It may still be a bit unpolished, but that's exactly what makes it worth having.

If you prefer power metal à la Blind Guardian, then you will want to get hold of Horror Show. It is not as popular as the previous albums, mainly because the thrash edge the band always maintained is mostly gone in favour of an epic/bombastic one. It may have a couple of forgettable tracks on it, but generally, it's a very good album and don't shy away from it.

The power metal trip is continued on The Glorious Burden, which is the most controversial release of the band. If you've grown used to Barlow's vocals by this point, you may not want to familiarise yourself with a new -and very different- singer, especially if he's already been booted in favour of Barlow again. Frankly, if you need to skip one Iced Earth album, let it be this one. It's got a couple of pearls on it, but all too often, the songwriting is very weak, and Owens, as good as he is, can't always make up for that.

Which leads us to the present day, with Framing Armageddon, which is very much like Horror Show, very unlike Something Wicked This Way Comes, and fortunately, only like the good bits of Glorious Burden. The songwriting has improved dramatically from its predecessor, but if you're not into that epic/multi-layered-chorus-bombast thing, you might hate it.

Oh, speaking of Something Wicked This Way Comes. It's a great album, in my opinion, and I very much enjoy the songs Forostar called "fillers" too, but you may indeed ask yourself if it is worth it to get this album if ten songs are already featured on Alive In Athens. My say is... yes, it is.

If you don't own any albums or only one or two yet, that new box set in its entirety is a good bargain. It looks very neat and the price is justified. I won't get hold of it, though, because I already own all the albums, and I don't think the "bonus material" is worth it at all.
 
Michael Kiske in Helloween. Though they went to shit soon after the keeper albums he is a BRILLIANT singer even to this day (he's done several side-projects) and those albums put Helloween on the map.
 
@Foro and Perun, thanks!  This thread has become quite a learning event for me.  I hadn't heard about either of these bands, till I came to Maidenfans, and I can't find anything on the radio (go figure!). Looks like I'm ordering off of Amazon, to get them.

@Onhell, I had forgotten about Helloween, but I do agreee with that thought.
 
Onhell said:
Michael Kiske in Helloween. Though they went to shit soon after the keeper albums he is a BRILLIANT singer even to this day (he's done several side-projects) and those albums put Helloween on the map.

I'd disagree with that slightly.  Andi Deris can sing Kiske's songs just as well, and some even better.  Kiske was a good vocalist, but I think Helloween could have done well with any singer who could hit the high notes.  In contrast, Bruce or Matt Barlow have a lot more to them than just hitting notes; they have charisma, stage presence, emotion...  And Kiske is an asshole anyway. ;)
 
disagree a million times. Deris can't sing neither eagle fly free nor keeper of the seven keys to save his life. Kiske is a superior singer, whether he's a superior frontman is different. Deris was able to make the songs his own, true (I like KOTSK: The Legacy LiVE quite a lot), but to this day (just get avantasia's latest) Kiske still has the pipes to put most singers to shame, specially all the clones he spawned.
 
Robin McAuley, replacing Gary Barden as MSG's lead vocalist. Really, i regard the McAuley years as the peak of Schenker's long & varied career.
 
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