Perun said:
We're not friends anymore.
The Next Album (expectations / desires)
- Thread starter Forostar
- Start date
We're not friends anymore.
GuineaPig
Ancient Mariner
Onhell said:Kamelot and Grave Digger have already done that!
Epica/The Black Halo are the best concept albums ever in terms of how well the concept worked.
Especially the Black Halo, which always amazes me how awesome the lyrics are. They move the plot along perfectly, without being "he did this, then he did that", and stand alone quite well as well.
I also love Blaze's take on concept albums: tell the story through feelings, not plot.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I wonder what's pointless about exploring or thinking of another world. Music, literature, films, are all art forms without rational boundaries and suiting places to deal with unrealistic subjects, not?
I see a point in all forms of art, even if I dislike some of it tremendously.
But I know someone else likes it, thus it makes sense.
Unfortunately it's really hard to stay original when we talk about lyrics.
You know what's been done often? Writing about war, death, destruction, religion, partying, love, sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Done since day one. 99 out of 100 rock/metal albums.
I see a point in all forms of art, even if I dislike some of it tremendously.
But I know someone else likes it, thus it makes sense.
Unfortunately it's really hard to stay original when we talk about lyrics.
You know what's been done often? Writing about war, death, destruction, religion, partying, love, sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Done since day one. 99 out of 100 rock/metal albums.
. However as far as Arthurian Legends go, Kamelot's The Fourth Legacy (the only dragons, elves and knights cd they've EVER done) and Grave Digger's Excalibur are the ones I was referring to.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Onhell said:
Which ruins an otherwise great song. Dune was not a pleasant reading experience except for the beginning.
All the traditional fantasy inspired music, like Dio's Magica, I have disliked immensely. Too bad, because I love Dio and consider him the best singer. Better than Bruce or Halford.
As far as SSOASS is concerned, I like the lyrical themes. They seem more universal than the fantastically pure bad vs pure evil magical fantasy stuff. Besides the album does not contain names of any esoteric characters or places.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Genghis Khan said:
It's actually possible to like the song and dislike or not even read the book. I have not read it. I've seen the film Dune, which helped me a lot to visualize the lyrical content. Some things I have already forgotten, but I don't feel much need to read the book.
Book, music, film. I treat them as independent forms of art. When I enjoy some fantastic music, I will continue to do so, as soon as I have learnt the other form(s) (which might have to do) with the same content. In my opinion: when we talk about Maiden, music is very dominant over the rest. So however bad a film might be, if Maiden writes a song about it, the song could still be very strong.
Genghis Khan said:
So whatever great melody a song has, it's ruined when lyrics deal with esotheric stuff? Or do you mean "fantastic" stuff? Esotericism is not exactly the same as fantasy stories?
Just in case: Magica is not inspired by traditional fantasy. Dio wrote the story himself. Then he wrote the songs and musically wrote it around the story. Of course, there's a lot of fantasy themes in his other lyrics as well.
What if Maiden would make a fantasy story themselves? Not based on another book or film?
Genghis Khan said:
SSOASS is pretty much about good vs evil. But in a way, many metal albums are, fantasy or not.
On SSOASS, more is going on besides "only" good vs evil, but this goes for many fantasy books (and metal albums) as well.
"The Good and the Evil which path will he take..."
Forostar said:
I never, ever said nobody else should do it. All I said is that I have nothing from it. I wrote down my opinion, and it's my opinion only. After all this is what this thread is supposed to be about- stating what you would like or not like on a new Maiden record. Some people have different preferences than others. I wouldn't want Maiden to do a Tolkien-style record, but I'm just one guy with his own taste. If Maiden put out a Tolkien-style record, I'm not gonna stop them, I'm gonna buy it and gonna listen to it nevertheless. It's just the theme I would not have done had I had the choice, which I never had.
Apologies mate, I was only half-awake this morning 
So, let's have a proper reply here now.
I didn't quite make myself clear there. I don't have a problem with fictional worlds per se. What I personally don't understand is why the creation of such worlds is being done in such detail, though. From my knowledge, Tolkien's Middle Earth has its own elaborate history, its own cultures, languages etc pp. What I don't see is why I should go into this detail exploring a fictional world, if the real one is exciting and mysterious enough. A fictional world as a setting for a story is OK (although I think the real one is good enough too), but that's it then, for me.
So, let's have a proper reply here now.
I didn't quite make myself clear there. I don't have a problem with fictional worlds per se. What I personally don't understand is why the creation of such worlds is being done in such detail, though. From my knowledge, Tolkien's Middle Earth has its own elaborate history, its own cultures, languages etc pp. What I don't see is why I should go into this detail exploring a fictional world, if the real one is exciting and mysterious enough. A fictional world as a setting for a story is OK (although I think the real one is good enough too), but that's it then, for me.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
No prob mate! 
Well, I think (I'm not sure) that he disliked some aspects of the real world he was living in, e.g. the fast developing industrial revolution. That's why he might have wanted to create another one with so much detail that people (including himself) could relate to it. His influences, knowledge and interests were so vast that this might also have to do with it.
Well, I think (I'm not sure) that he disliked some aspects of the real world he was living in, e.g. the fast developing industrial revolution. That's why he might have wanted to create another one with so much detail that people (including himself) could relate to it. His influences, knowledge and interests were so vast that this might also have to do with it.
I can't say for sure, but it seems that authors that deal with fantasy worlds like that like to have many details built up, so they always have a reference point while writing multiple books. If the history is 'set' it is easier to keep the continuity. That's just a guess, tho.
Speaking as someone who has worked on fantasy worlds previously, I think there is a certain unique challenge to creating a world outside our own...and making it work in your mind.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
I really enjoyed reading that.
I only read the first three books:
A Game of Thrones (1996)
A Clash of Kings (1998)
A Storm of Swords (2000)
Original stuff, more influenced by medieval history. I still have to read A Feast for Crows (2005). My brother told me that the story was told in a different manner, compared with the first three books.
I only read the first three books:
A Game of Thrones (1996)
A Clash of Kings (1998)
A Storm of Swords (2000)
Original stuff, more influenced by medieval history. I still have to read A Feast for Crows (2005). My brother told me that the story was told in a different manner, compared with the first three books.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
No that is not what I said. In fact using the 'To Tame a Land' song I said the exact opposite. The music is great, but the lyrics, I'd prefer to be less esoteric. This verse is what I'm refering to, in particular:
Without a stillsuit you would fry on the sands so hot and dry in a world called Arrakis
It is a land that's rich in spice, the sandriders and the 'mice' that they call the 'Muad' Dib'
He is the Kwizatz Haderach, he is born of Caladan and will take the Gom Jabbar
He has the power to forsee or to look into the past, he's the ruler of the stars
It is OK if you disagree. I'm sure many love the song precisely because of such lyrics.
Concerning Magica, the music itself was different than rest of Dio and it did not appeal to me.
Forostar said:
In a sense, you're right good vs evil pervades much of music, metal in particular. But good vs evil is such a large abstraction, that unless it is specific, it loses interest to me. SSOASS theme I can understand because I don't feel like it is about a bunch of evil war-mongering monstrosities trying to take over the world, which is so vague and cliche.
GuineaPig
Ancient Mariner
Forostar said:
A Feast for Crows is arguably the low point in the series, but not by very much. Make no mistake, it's still a brilliant book. As to the narrative style, due to the size of the book it was split into two volumes; you get to see what happens in King's Landing, Braavos and the Vale in this book, whereas the next will primarily focus on the Wall and Slaver's Bay.
The character development of the two Lannister twins (Cersei becomes a POV character) is arguably the most interesting of the series so far.
Genghis Khan
Ancient Mariner
GuineaPig said:
The series is my favourite. I eagerly await 'A Dance With Dragons'. What makes Martin's writing different from other fantasy writers is that heroes die, and character development is complex without the stereotypical good guys and bad guys. Still, I do not think a Maiden album about Martin's world of Westeros would make a successful album, even if Harris/Dickinson/Smith do read his books, which is doubtful. As much as I like reading about the Starks, the Lannisters and others, I cannot see myself getting excited about them inside of a song. The proposed TV series of the books on HBO would probably also fail. The scope of his writing is just too immense for another medium.
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
Genghis Khan said:
It's what I asked.
Genghis Khan said:
You said that it ruined the song, so I wanted to know how much it is ruined. I guess it's not that bad.
About Magica, I thought it was the lyrics but now I guess it's the music.
So you do like fantasy literature? Didn't realize that either, sorry.
Hmm, Martin's works are full of esotheric characters and places. Well, I guess you like to read about those things but not hear, accompanied by music, or see it on the screen.
Genghis Khan said:
I prefer Tolkien's books over de films but the films still "worked". TV series could even be a better medium than film.
Maiden's super short version of ROTAM surely worked!
The Clairvoyant
Trooper
Bruce said during an interview done on iron maiden tv that new album will be out in 2010 and there will be something special next year. He didn't say anything other.