Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
He only mixed the last four songs on ME but they do sound amazing. I would love to hear him fully mix it all. And then Donington '92 next.
The MAIDEN Years: 2018/19/20/21/22/ad infinitum (Rock in Rio and Nights of the Dead)
- Thread starter Mosh
- Start date
Strongly disagree with this. Look at Jugulator by Priest. Released in 97, had an accessible metal sound, Halford-like vocals, and solid production which matched what was trendy in Metal at the time. Still didn’t really make a dent for Priest. Even Bruce’s Roy Z albums didn’t really do anything to break him in America.
I agree that Grunge was pretty short lived, but that doesn’t mean Metal was ready for a comeback in 95. Things were marinating then for sure, but it took until 2000-ish for things to really get started.
Also, Maiden’s success in America post 2000 wasn’t an overnight thing. They played a lot of small amphitheaters and didn’t do a lot of extensive touring, especially when a new album was out. Starting in 2008, the North American tours started to get bigger and they were playing mostly arenas by 2016. The Ozzfest tour also did a lot for them out here.
Yax
Ancient Mariner
He did a full 5.1 mix for the DVD.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Well Jugulator did not have Halford. And Dickinson/Z did not have Maiden logistics.
Metal did not go anywhere, some great stuff was released in mid 90s, Pantera, Death, etc. Pantera had a #1 in '94 and #4 in '96.
Priest, like Maiden, old farts failing to capture new audiences due to mid career crisis. Simple as that.
The last thing you said is really what it's about. Maiden restarted USA and after 3 reunion albums and a history tour they were back in fold. So they kept the audience alive in the late 90s and then made it bigger and bigger.
However I simply believe that the band's curve would not drop down to such lows had Dickinson remained. I firmly state that X Factor set with mid 90s Bruce would be great, because, no matter how the songs 'fit Blaze better', he'd at least sing correctly live. Bruce vs Blaze as a frontman cannot be compared even while their mouths are shut. Even fully demotivated 1993 Bruce is in another category. And then comes the backlog material which, again I believe, killed a lot of tickets on that tour. Maybe that someone that wasn't into heavy metal anymore wanted to hear Trooper, 2MTM, Evil that Men Do, but nope, Blaze is in. Bruce being in would single-handedly double the amount of sold tickets. The attendances would be lower than they "used to be", but on a linear curve that's been dropping since the late 80s.
It’s hard to say but considering Maiden did have a decline in America from 88 to 92, I have a hard time believing that they would’ve fared better with Bruce in the band. It may not have dropped to the same lows, and I think their fortunes in Europe would’ve been a bit better for sure, but definitely not a Brave New World success.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Of course, and it wouldn't be healthy for the future, that's for sure.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
You're absolutely correct. I was referring to the album but it never occurred to me that the 5.1 mix would have been 100% Kevin Shirley mix. Whenever I watched it I always selected the stereo PCM mix. I just gave it a spin with the DTS mix and it's substantially different. The drums, especially the kick have so much more power and Steve's bass has more oomph. The mix certainly improves the weak low end that the original had.
chaosapiant
Ancient Marinade
Maiden would've sunk in the 90s no matter what. The only chance they had of selling out larger stadiums in America was if they significantly altered their sound and image. But with no radio play, even that would've been a lost cause. As an American, I find America's taste in music to be much more fad based. I've been to five fantastic Maiden shows; folks singing along, hands in the air, etc, and they've never come close to how crazy fans get in other countries, particularly those in S America.
Long story short, Steve's determination to not bend or break during the 90s is what kept Maiden alive. Smaller venues, less album sales, a vocalist that many could not get into, and they still made it out the other side. This is one of the reasons I give Steve a big pass to do whatever he wants production and song-writing wise because he's earned my loyalty as a fan by sticking to his guns.
Long story short, Steve's determination to not bend or break during the 90s is what kept Maiden alive. Smaller venues, less album sales, a vocalist that many could not get into, and they still made it out the other side. This is one of the reasons I give Steve a big pass to do whatever he wants production and song-writing wise because he's earned my loyalty as a fan by sticking to his guns.
Tattooed Millionaire
Before people get too upset, I’m probably not going to listen to any of the solo albums besides Bruce’s. I just am not that interested in them and don’t have enough time for it. If I do anything else, it’ll probably be the first few Blaze albums and maybe Smith/Kotzen since I haven’t listened to it yet. I really enjoy Bruce’s solo career. I grew up with a lot of those albums. I like that he tried a lot of different things and even made a couple of Metal albums that ate Maiden’s lunch. He also did all of this with really good producers, quality songwriting partners, and excellent bands. Frankly, with the exception of Blaze, none of the other members of Maiden have done these things when making solo albums.
As for Tattooed Millionaire, it’s the first of many oddities in Bruce’s solo career. Very American influenced, very hard rock, very 70s. Not really what you would expect from the guy who just came off of Seventh Son, but it makes sense if you know Bruce’s musical upbringing. For what it is, it’s a pretty good effort. There are some surprisingly deep tracks in here, mainly on the A side. The first three tracks are really solid, musically and lyrically. It kinda goes off the rails after that, but I find that it still has some really enjoyable moments and stays entertaining throughout.
What made this album relatively successful as far as quality goes, and what I find a lot of people miss, is that this is not an 80s glam metal album despite being often categorized as such. By 1990, that scene had been so over saturated by copy cat bands with no musical or songwriting talents. Most of those bands didn’t even really seem to have any influences deeper than what was going on around them. So many of them were just mindlessly chasing trends. The proof is in the pudding: bands like Alice In Chains and Pantera immediately changed their sounds and image when it became clear that this sort of thing wasn’t going to be popular much longer. Tattooed Millionaire definitely has the production and swagger of 80s glam, but it’s approached by slightly older musicians who grew up with 60s and 70s music. They have chops and a wider range of musical experience and knowledge. You hear it in Janick’s playing style, in Bruce’s vocals, even in some of the lyrics. This has more in common with 70s Aerosmith and Foreigner than it does Ratt or Autograph. It’s not glittery, the guitars aren’t super noodle-y, the lyrics are mostly more clever than what was typical for that era.
Of course this album is noteworthy for bringing Janick into the Maiden camp. Honestly he was the perfect guy for the album. Bruce was clearly aiming for a Gillan sort of thing, so Janick was an obvious choice. He’s got that perfect Blackmore rhythm guitar style but with a more direct soloing style that fits a more direct style of music. I think it took Janick a pretty long time to adapt to not being the only guitar player in a band, but here he’s totally in his element.
No Prayer For the Dying
This is one of Maiden’s least popular albums, and at this point probably also their most forgotten. Not a single song from it has been played since 2003, and even then most of the material was quickly forgotten after the album’s initial tour. It’s easy to see why most people don’t rate this as a favorite. After the grandeur of the previous two albums, it seemed like the band were taking a massive step back. An attempt at recapturing the raw sound and energy of the early club days probably wasn’t what most fans wanted, and it’s a bit of a challenge as an arena rock band that has been on the road for the last 10 years. Adding to the struggles, the band were left without a key songwriter in Adrian Smith.
I actually don’t dislike this album. Similar to Tattooed Millionaire, I think it does a pretty good job at what it’s setting out to do. The problem is that they consciously went for a sound that just isn’t that interesting. The early albums were raw, yes, but they also showed ambition. For every Prowler and Drifter, there was a Killers or Phantom of the Opera. In other words, Maiden always punched above their weight. On this album, it doesn’t seem like they’re challenging themselves as much as they are going back to the familiar. Songs like the title track and Mother Russia just feel like cheap imitations of great songs from the past because they’re intentionally cutting themselves short of their actual potential. Tailgunner is a cool throwback to the war oriented openers on the earlier Dickinson albums, but without the instrumental fireworks or vocal acrobatics that made those particular songs so much fun to listen to.
Janick’s introduction to the band is probably the most awkward lineup transition the band ever had. Also I’m going to preface this for the more childish members on the board: I’m not interested in Janick bashing in this thread. His playing is fine, but I think there are a couple things working against him. For one thing, it’s fairly obvious that he came in after the album had been written. And, unlike with Adrian, there was no warmup tour or anything to break him into the band. It doesn’t feel like this lineup has totally gelled yet. Additionally, and somewhat related, Janick had rarely (if ever) played in bands where he wasn’t the only guitar player. This very much feels like a one guitar album, where there isn’t a lot of contrast between the tone or playing styles of the two guitar players. It also feels like Dave is doing a lot to adapt to Janick’s style, which is cool, but it ends up sounding a little more homogenous. The guitar harmonies are still there, but not quite as pronounced.
Bruce’s new vocal style is interesting. I think it works better on this album than it does on Fear of the Dark, where he sounds more strained and there’s less strength in his voice. He still puts the operatic style to good use here and, honestly, the raspy singing fits the material.
With that being said, this album has a lot of good qualities. By looking at the writing credits, you can see that everyone took a step up in trying to fill the void left by Adrian’s departure. Dave Murray doesn’t just contribute an unusual 2 songs, he contributes the two best songs on the album with Public Enema No 1 and Fates Warning. Two fantastic songs with great guitar licks, great lyrics, and probably the best use of Bruce’s new raspy vocal style.
On the previous album, we got the very first Dickinson/Harris song with Only the Good Die Young. On this album, we get three of those. I already mentioned some gripes with Tailgunner as a budget Aces High, but on the other hand Dickinson helps prevent the song from being a classic case of Harris trying to fit as many words as possible into a stanza. The lyrics on this are actually pretty good. I wonder if Dickinson was more outspoken about the lyrical style with this album, because it is actually pretty light on the lyrical Harris-isms. Holy Smoke is fun. A little goofy but I don’t mind when the band doesn’t take themselves too seriously. It’s got a good hook and a really good (and still relevant) lyric. Finally, Run Silent Run Deep is one of my favorites on the album. Such an awesome riff, great chorus, really good vocal delivery from Bruce. Awesome guitar harmonies. This is the sort of song that shows the unmet potential of some of the album.
Overall, I enjoy No Prayer when I listen to it, but I rarely find that it’s the Maiden album I want to go for. Even in its best moments, I can probably easily find other songs that better capture what they’re going for. The solo Harris songs especially suffer here. Who’s going to listen to No Prayer For the Dying or Mother Russia when you can listen to Hallowed Be Thy Name or Infinite Dreams? It just doesn’t compare. And if I want raw Maiden, it’s really hard to beat the Di’Anno years. With that being said, this isn’t a bad source for some fun deep cuts.
Live At Wembley
This is at the top of my list for shows that I know are in the vault which I hope Maiden releases at some point, probably when they retire (even better if there is a video). Some of it was officially released as b-sides, and this bootleg is sourced from an FM radio broadcast. It’s without a doubt the best document from the No Prayer tour and is an awesome show.
Regardless of what you think of the album, the No Prayer tour was a really good one. I think Bruce’s change in vocal style actually helped his live consistency quite a bit. You’ll notice that he sounds less strained, especially when he does the operatic thing you can hear a more full voice similar to the way he sings now. On the whole, he sounds better from show to show than he has on any other tour. I’m sure the year off from Maiden also helped.
The band sounds energized. One byproduct of Adrian leaving is that the songs continue to speed up throughout the 90s. This became a problem by 1993, but on this tour it sounds fine. Some songs, such as Die With Your Boots On, get a nice extra kick of energy.
Then you have the setlist. This is the first tour where it really feels like the band is starting to look back. It makes sense, they had just released a massive box set of their singles and were celebrating ten years since the debut album. It was also appropriate for the back to roots aesthetic of the album. At some shows you’d have 5 songs from Number of the Beast, which was actually a bit of an anomaly. The band also moved Hallowed Be Thy Name closer to the top of the setlist, making it a bit more prominent than it usually is as something that happens when the band is starting to wind things down to a close. Overall, it feels like there’s more emphasis on this album than there had been on previous tours. Even Wrathchild, for as much as we joke about it, wasn’t necessarily a staple on the last few tours. Whereas on previous tours the band would give a lot of setlist space to the two most recent albums, by now it feels like Seventh Son and Somewhere In Time are hardly present with only one song each (sometimes two from Seventh Son). Instead, they go back to the older material for non-No Prayer songs.
As far as the No Prayer selection goes, you get the standard 6 songs, although the placement is kinda interesting. Where typically the new songs are evenly spread throughout the set, here they’re all kinda grouped together. You open with two No Prayer songs, then a long slew of classics, then the last four No Prayer songs are all played back to back. In some ways it actually makes the No Prayer album seem less prominent. But it’s a good selection nonetheless. I would’ve liked Run Silent Run Deep instead of The Assassin and Fates Warning instead of Hooks In You, but otherwise I think it’s fine.
This is a really fantastic show and a great look at a slightly undocumented period of Maiden. Highly recommended!
Before people get too upset, I’m probably not going to listen to any of the solo albums besides Bruce’s. I just am not that interested in them and don’t have enough time for it. If I do anything else, it’ll probably be the first few Blaze albums and maybe Smith/Kotzen since I haven’t listened to it yet. I really enjoy Bruce’s solo career. I grew up with a lot of those albums. I like that he tried a lot of different things and even made a couple of Metal albums that ate Maiden’s lunch. He also did all of this with really good producers, quality songwriting partners, and excellent bands. Frankly, with the exception of Blaze, none of the other members of Maiden have done these things when making solo albums.
As for Tattooed Millionaire, it’s the first of many oddities in Bruce’s solo career. Very American influenced, very hard rock, very 70s. Not really what you would expect from the guy who just came off of Seventh Son, but it makes sense if you know Bruce’s musical upbringing. For what it is, it’s a pretty good effort. There are some surprisingly deep tracks in here, mainly on the A side. The first three tracks are really solid, musically and lyrically. It kinda goes off the rails after that, but I find that it still has some really enjoyable moments and stays entertaining throughout.
What made this album relatively successful as far as quality goes, and what I find a lot of people miss, is that this is not an 80s glam metal album despite being often categorized as such. By 1990, that scene had been so over saturated by copy cat bands with no musical or songwriting talents. Most of those bands didn’t even really seem to have any influences deeper than what was going on around them. So many of them were just mindlessly chasing trends. The proof is in the pudding: bands like Alice In Chains and Pantera immediately changed their sounds and image when it became clear that this sort of thing wasn’t going to be popular much longer. Tattooed Millionaire definitely has the production and swagger of 80s glam, but it’s approached by slightly older musicians who grew up with 60s and 70s music. They have chops and a wider range of musical experience and knowledge. You hear it in Janick’s playing style, in Bruce’s vocals, even in some of the lyrics. This has more in common with 70s Aerosmith and Foreigner than it does Ratt or Autograph. It’s not glittery, the guitars aren’t super noodle-y, the lyrics are mostly more clever than what was typical for that era.
Of course this album is noteworthy for bringing Janick into the Maiden camp. Honestly he was the perfect guy for the album. Bruce was clearly aiming for a Gillan sort of thing, so Janick was an obvious choice. He’s got that perfect Blackmore rhythm guitar style but with a more direct soloing style that fits a more direct style of music. I think it took Janick a pretty long time to adapt to not being the only guitar player in a band, but here he’s totally in his element.
No Prayer For the Dying
This is one of Maiden’s least popular albums, and at this point probably also their most forgotten. Not a single song from it has been played since 2003, and even then most of the material was quickly forgotten after the album’s initial tour. It’s easy to see why most people don’t rate this as a favorite. After the grandeur of the previous two albums, it seemed like the band were taking a massive step back. An attempt at recapturing the raw sound and energy of the early club days probably wasn’t what most fans wanted, and it’s a bit of a challenge as an arena rock band that has been on the road for the last 10 years. Adding to the struggles, the band were left without a key songwriter in Adrian Smith.
I actually don’t dislike this album. Similar to Tattooed Millionaire, I think it does a pretty good job at what it’s setting out to do. The problem is that they consciously went for a sound that just isn’t that interesting. The early albums were raw, yes, but they also showed ambition. For every Prowler and Drifter, there was a Killers or Phantom of the Opera. In other words, Maiden always punched above their weight. On this album, it doesn’t seem like they’re challenging themselves as much as they are going back to the familiar. Songs like the title track and Mother Russia just feel like cheap imitations of great songs from the past because they’re intentionally cutting themselves short of their actual potential. Tailgunner is a cool throwback to the war oriented openers on the earlier Dickinson albums, but without the instrumental fireworks or vocal acrobatics that made those particular songs so much fun to listen to.
Janick’s introduction to the band is probably the most awkward lineup transition the band ever had. Also I’m going to preface this for the more childish members on the board: I’m not interested in Janick bashing in this thread. His playing is fine, but I think there are a couple things working against him. For one thing, it’s fairly obvious that he came in after the album had been written. And, unlike with Adrian, there was no warmup tour or anything to break him into the band. It doesn’t feel like this lineup has totally gelled yet. Additionally, and somewhat related, Janick had rarely (if ever) played in bands where he wasn’t the only guitar player. This very much feels like a one guitar album, where there isn’t a lot of contrast between the tone or playing styles of the two guitar players. It also feels like Dave is doing a lot to adapt to Janick’s style, which is cool, but it ends up sounding a little more homogenous. The guitar harmonies are still there, but not quite as pronounced.
Bruce’s new vocal style is interesting. I think it works better on this album than it does on Fear of the Dark, where he sounds more strained and there’s less strength in his voice. He still puts the operatic style to good use here and, honestly, the raspy singing fits the material.
With that being said, this album has a lot of good qualities. By looking at the writing credits, you can see that everyone took a step up in trying to fill the void left by Adrian’s departure. Dave Murray doesn’t just contribute an unusual 2 songs, he contributes the two best songs on the album with Public Enema No 1 and Fates Warning. Two fantastic songs with great guitar licks, great lyrics, and probably the best use of Bruce’s new raspy vocal style.
On the previous album, we got the very first Dickinson/Harris song with Only the Good Die Young. On this album, we get three of those. I already mentioned some gripes with Tailgunner as a budget Aces High, but on the other hand Dickinson helps prevent the song from being a classic case of Harris trying to fit as many words as possible into a stanza. The lyrics on this are actually pretty good. I wonder if Dickinson was more outspoken about the lyrical style with this album, because it is actually pretty light on the lyrical Harris-isms. Holy Smoke is fun. A little goofy but I don’t mind when the band doesn’t take themselves too seriously. It’s got a good hook and a really good (and still relevant) lyric. Finally, Run Silent Run Deep is one of my favorites on the album. Such an awesome riff, great chorus, really good vocal delivery from Bruce. Awesome guitar harmonies. This is the sort of song that shows the unmet potential of some of the album.
Overall, I enjoy No Prayer when I listen to it, but I rarely find that it’s the Maiden album I want to go for. Even in its best moments, I can probably easily find other songs that better capture what they’re going for. The solo Harris songs especially suffer here. Who’s going to listen to No Prayer For the Dying or Mother Russia when you can listen to Hallowed Be Thy Name or Infinite Dreams? It just doesn’t compare. And if I want raw Maiden, it’s really hard to beat the Di’Anno years. With that being said, this isn’t a bad source for some fun deep cuts.
Live At Wembley
This is at the top of my list for shows that I know are in the vault which I hope Maiden releases at some point, probably when they retire (even better if there is a video). Some of it was officially released as b-sides, and this bootleg is sourced from an FM radio broadcast. It’s without a doubt the best document from the No Prayer tour and is an awesome show.
Regardless of what you think of the album, the No Prayer tour was a really good one. I think Bruce’s change in vocal style actually helped his live consistency quite a bit. You’ll notice that he sounds less strained, especially when he does the operatic thing you can hear a more full voice similar to the way he sings now. On the whole, he sounds better from show to show than he has on any other tour. I’m sure the year off from Maiden also helped.
The band sounds energized. One byproduct of Adrian leaving is that the songs continue to speed up throughout the 90s. This became a problem by 1993, but on this tour it sounds fine. Some songs, such as Die With Your Boots On, get a nice extra kick of energy.
Then you have the setlist. This is the first tour where it really feels like the band is starting to look back. It makes sense, they had just released a massive box set of their singles and were celebrating ten years since the debut album. It was also appropriate for the back to roots aesthetic of the album. At some shows you’d have 5 songs from Number of the Beast, which was actually a bit of an anomaly. The band also moved Hallowed Be Thy Name closer to the top of the setlist, making it a bit more prominent than it usually is as something that happens when the band is starting to wind things down to a close. Overall, it feels like there’s more emphasis on this album than there had been on previous tours. Even Wrathchild, for as much as we joke about it, wasn’t necessarily a staple on the last few tours. Whereas on previous tours the band would give a lot of setlist space to the two most recent albums, by now it feels like Seventh Son and Somewhere In Time are hardly present with only one song each (sometimes two from Seventh Son). Instead, they go back to the older material for non-No Prayer songs.
As far as the No Prayer selection goes, you get the standard 6 songs, although the placement is kinda interesting. Where typically the new songs are evenly spread throughout the set, here they’re all kinda grouped together. You open with two No Prayer songs, then a long slew of classics, then the last four No Prayer songs are all played back to back. In some ways it actually makes the No Prayer album seem less prominent. But it’s a good selection nonetheless. I would’ve liked Run Silent Run Deep instead of The Assassin and Fates Warning instead of Hooks In You, but otherwise I think it’s fine.
This is a really fantastic show and a great look at a slightly undocumented period of Maiden. Highly recommended!
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
I disagree slightly only because I think Adrian’s solo work — not counting Smith / Kotzen because I haven’t heard it yet — showcases a lot of H’s attempts at branching out and forging new paths from new inspirations. The Psycho Motel albums feel like well thought-out band projects, an attempt at redefining his ‘brand’. Even ASAP was slightly more mature than Bruce’s Tattooed Millionaire, even though I really like both records.
Just a small correction, but the Alice ‘n’ Chains glam band was actually not the same as the Alice in Chains grunge band. Layne Staley was the frontman of both and suggested reworking the former band’s name for the latter one that actually made it big.
Other than that I agree with a lot of what you said. NPFTD is a good album to listen to but doesn’t have a good staying power. Not one to come back to a lot when you need that Maiden fix. “Tailgunner” is awesome though. And the tour had some really tight performances, the one aspect of the whole “back to basics” thing that they pulled off.
Spaldy
Ancient Mariner
I'm new here so can I just ask, why is Adrian referred to as H?
Diesel 11
As you scream into the web of silence...
As far as I know, it’s because the way we pronounce the name ‘Adrian’ in English, we hit the ‘d’ with a ‘j’ or ‘ch’ kind of sound generally. Age-ree-un. H-ree-un. H. There might be more to this but I haven’t seen anything deeper than a simple explanation of English just be like that sometimes!
Also the name stems from the band IIRC and is popular to the point of it being mentioned on Wikipedia.
No Prayer felt like a letdown in 1990 but I always enjoyed it.
As time passed its raw sound has elevated it greatly, putting it on a par with its synth-washed predecessor whose sound has dated somewhat.
Personally I'd take the title track and Mother Russia over Hallowed and Infinite Dreams any day.
As time passed its raw sound has elevated it greatly, putting it on a par with its synth-washed predecessor whose sound has dated somewhat.
Personally I'd take the title track and Mother Russia over Hallowed and Infinite Dreams any day.
Samantas5855
Ancient Mariner
Let me remind you that Mother Russia has synths too.
It's time bring out a real Maiden setlist from the era:
Public Enema Number One
Fates Warning
Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter
No Prayer for the Dying
Infinite Dreams
Only the Good Die Young
Deja Vu
Wasted Years
Powerslave
Killers
Phantom of the Opera
Iron Maiden
Die with Your Boots On
The Evil Than Men Do
Public Enema Number One
Fates Warning
Bring Your Daughter to the Slaughter
No Prayer for the Dying
Infinite Dreams
Only the Good Die Young
Deja Vu
Wasted Years
Powerslave
Killers
Phantom of the Opera
Iron Maiden
Die with Your Boots On
The Evil Than Men Do
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Please bring all fantasy setlists to the build a Setlist forum and not this thread. https://forum.maidenfans.com/forums/make-your-own-setlist.71/
Sorry, just playing around with Spotify setlists
It's not saturated like on the previous two albums.