The Greatest Metal Song Cup - Part II, Round 4, Matches 82-87

[KidInTheDark666]

Good to see that the anti-Tate club is enjoying Spreading the Disease. I'm also happy that new folks are enjoying Primal Fear. Their newer material like this song can be a bit different from the old Painkiller-worship.

 

[srfc]

But that’s the best part.

I love Steve as much as the next man, but I cringed on hearing it. After reading other peoples replies after it and seeing it's not an album track, then maybe it wasn't meant as seriously as I thought it was on first listen.

 

[KidInTheDark666]

But that’s the best part.

Mr. Bean and Gary Lineker aren't a joke either!

 

[LooseCannon]

Schism is at least alright to me, Stinkfist stinks, like most of Tool, it is bland and uninspired.

Bleak over Smoke and Mirrors.

England was funny, but not good. That Primal Fear song was pretty cool.

Accolade II over Black Rose Immortal.

Aerosmith over a terrible AC/DC song.

Travel in Stygian, obviously.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Wow, this round is pretty brutal. Let's get into it, then.


Both of the Tool songs are quite good, methinks, I have a really hard time assessing them against each other, I gues Schism sounds more like Blur, cca 13-era, so I'll go with that one.

-----

Smoke and Mirrors is a pretty great song - man, I miss Symph X being neoclassical. Also, the kinda boy-bandish prechorus is fun (kinda reminds me of Seventh Wonder, in a way) and the instrumental section is pretty solid as well (though I've heard especially Pinnella do better). Shame it's pitted against Bleak, of all songs.
How many times has this song won in the Opeth Survivor? Twice? Thrice? Anyway, even if only once, it was absolutely deservedly.

I love how it progresses from the relatively brutal and Eastern-tinged first part into the unabashed Wilson-isms (I still insist that the "Porcupinisation" of Opeth was possibly an even bigger change in the grander scheme of things than their transformation into Newpeth). I also like the ending, I know it might be "cool" in a rather shallow way, but I can't help it.

Opeth, no contest.

-----

Primal Fear over latter-day era post-jumping-the-shark Edguy any time of the day.

-----

However, in the second Symph X vs Opeth match, my sentiments are completely the opposite. Thing is, you'd think that a prog band should do those huge, prog songs, right? Side-long suites and gargantuan compositions. And that I would love it for them, wouldn't I? Don't I love Thick as a Brick AND A Passion Play? The Close to the Edges AND the Octavaria of the world?

But it isn't as easy - there are many bands who simply can't do it. Or, at least it doesn't have any added value - I realise I might be saying something controversial here, but are we really sure that A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers is the best thing even only off Pawn Hearts, let alone the rest of the VDGG discography? Renaissance's Song of Scheherazade? Honestly, even King Crimson's Lizard?

And that's just classic proggers, I have just as many problems with metalheads doing this. Fates Warning's The Ivory Gate of Dreams, Mekong Delta's Dances of Death, even A Change of Seasons and Divine Wings of Tragedy, to a degree.

And, well, Black Rose Immortal. Don't get me wrong, I like the song very much and I enjoy it quite a bit in the context of the album, but it isn't even among my favourite 3 songs on Morningrise, and that one only has 5 tracks. Again, I like it, but I never understood why it should be 20 minutes instead of 10. Especially in the earlyPeth era, when their "throw ideas at the wall, see what sticks" left something to be desired in the composition and songwriting aspect. That's something that plagues even my most favourite tracks of the era (Forest of October) and here it's only all the more noticeable.

Yeah, this

Black Rose Immortal is a song that I have always liked, but always found to be quite overrated. If ever there was a case to be made for long song bias: this is it. The individual parts here are absolutely sublime, with killer riffs, moods, and dynamics throughout, but I don’t feel the song ever comes together as a whole consistent piece. Opeth has far, far greater (and more concise) songs.

Whereas Accolade II is an example of a perfect sequel, in fact a song that actually improves upon the original. It is among the most emotional of Symph X songs and among the generally most well-wrought. In fact, I'd even argue that it is Accolade II and the title track that make people overrate the Odyssey album a bit, just because these two songs are pretty much perfect.

People always say the original is the best, but I disagree regarding Accolade II. This song has it all: emotion, heavy, chunky, soaring vocals, sad piano, happy piano, sad guitar, blazing guitar… it’s perfect. The part with the original Accolade theme in the interlude is splendid.

Yeah, I agree.

Symphony X.

-----

Early Aerosmith are among the best stuff I know and I'm dead serious. Even on a commercial and glitzy funky romp like Sweet Emotion. The guitars, the... "swagger", the melodies, the quite entrancing sleaze... So even though the opposing song is from Let There Be Rock, which might be my favourite AC/DC album overall, it's not really a contest for me.

-----

Eh-hm

She's sister Mary now,
eyes as cold as ice

BUT ARE YOU WILLING TO SACRIFICE OUR LOVE?

Also, is it just me or is the main riff of Disease quite similar to Blind Guardian's Into the Storm, Maiden's The Mercenary and probably another song or two which I can't seem to remember right now?

Anyway, I know you probably expect me to vote for Travel in Stygian, in fact, I thought so myself, but I think I've already supported the Cause enough to storm the Capitol seven times over and finally we're getting some good Rÿche songs, so I think I'll go with the only album to know Tate and co. for and go with the somewhat cheesy, but beautiful Spreading the Disease. The combination of the riff and the chorus is just so... American. And for once I mean that in a positive way. Catchy and cool.

 

[Diesel 11]

Stinkfist stinks, like most of Tool, it is bland and uninspired.

I fail to see how a song that uses anal fisting as a metaphor for self-exploration is uninspired. If anything it’s too inspired.

 

[Jer]

Also, is it just me or is the main riff of Disease quite similar to Blind Guardian's Into the Storm, Maiden's The Mercenary and probably another song or two which I can't seem to remember right now?

Sure, though it predates both of the ones you mentioned.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Sure, though it predates both of the ones you mentioned.

Yes, I wasn't implying anything bad about any of the bands/songs anyway, but I might have mentioned the Ryche song is the oldest one.

 

[____no5]

Symphony X as a group gets a lot of love in this forum, I voted Opeth for both and loosing both. I like them as well, but not more than Opeth.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

In fact, I'd even argue that it is Accolade II and the title track that make people overrate the Odyssey album a bit, just because these two songs are pretty much perfect.

And Awakenings.

And Inferno.

And Wicked.

And King of Terrors.

 

[Confeos]

Christmas is over and it's good to get back to some greatest metal listening.

Tool is overrated, but I can't deny that "Schism" is a classic. The bassline is iconic and obviously the highlight, but it doesn't really go anywhere, so I can't really rate it beyond merely enjoyable. "Stinkfist" has some good parts too, but it's also dragging in places. There isn't a lot between these two, but I guess I'm going with Schism.

Opeth is another band that I'm not quite getting (yet), but I feel like at least some progress is being made as I listen to more and more of their stuff. And I gotta say, I'm absolutely in love with the music in "Bleak", but I'm also taking a leaf out of @Jer's book by wishing it had only clean vocals. I enjoy growls and the like when it fits the music, but the cleaner singing here just sounds way more powerful to me. But it's a minor complaint, for sure. And I'm still gonna vote for it in this match, because even if "Smoke and Mirrors" is one of the most fun, full-throttle Symphony X tracks there is, the highs of "Bleak" are simply, well, higher. Opeth.

I haven't listened to much Primal Fear, but "We Walk Without Fear" was certainly not what I would have expected. It's much more symphonic and grand than anything I can recall hearing from them before, and I like it quite a bit. "England" is terrible. Sorry, not sorry - easy vote for Primal Fear.

Ah, "Accolade II". I've previously mentioned that I'm much more into the later Symphony X albums than their earlier material - Paradise Lost remains my favourite album, but if I had to choose just a single song from their entire output to rank above the rest, I would have to go with "Accolade II". As has been stated already, it's vastly superior to the first one, and that's no small feat. "Black Rose Immortal" sounds more like black metal than anything else I've heard from Opeth. I can't say I dislike it - if it was made by any of the black metal acts, it would absolutely be considered top-tier. However, I don't think the 20 minute runtime is completely justified; it could definitely use a bit of trimming. I don't believe I've voted against any of my own nominees yet, and I'm not going to here either. Symphony X.

Oh good. Another AC/DC song that sounds exactly like just another AC/DC song. "Sweet Emotion" isn't amazing either, but it's still a lot more interesting. Voting for Aerosmith.

"Spreading the Disease" is a great Queensrÿche cut. Not much to say except that I enjoyed it all the way through - even the semi-spoken bit in the middle. I would happily vote for it, I would, it's just that it's up against a monster of an Iced Earth tune. I almost nominated "Travel in Stygian" myself, but changed my mind, so I'm thrilled someone else thought of it. Night of the Stormrider really is an album stuffed with amazing Jon Schaffer riff-fests, and "Stygian" might just be the best of the bunch. The fast riff after the first chorus, while quite simple, never fails to get me up and thrashing. I cannot, and will not, not vote for Iced Earth.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

And Awakenings.

And Inferno.

And Wicked.

And King of Terrors.

You’re not wrong. The only duds are Incantations of the Apprentice (kind of) and the even weaker The Turning.

 

[KidInTheDark666]

Awakenings is a boring mess, the rest of the songs are pretty good.

 

[Diesel 11]

You’re not wrong. The only duds are Incantations of the Apprentice (kind of) and the even weaker The Turning.

“The Turning” isn’t amazing but I defy anyone to find a more dynamic Russell performance. The way he embodies the shape-shifting is amazing.

 

[Diesel 11]

The Toolchest has been opened and it's "Schism" against "Stinkfist", two iconic tracks from their two most iconic albums. "Schism" has inarguably one of the coolest bass riffs in history. I've come to love it but it's still odd that this track is one of their most famous because beyond the intro it meanders quite a lot. I like where it goes and what it does, but "Stinkfist" is in a different ballpark. One of their coolest riffs, several moments where you just can't help but bang your head, and lyrically it is ridiculous and awesome at the same time. Both great songs, but it's no contest for me.

"Bleak" kicks off with an amazing riff - heavy electric distortion with folky acoustics underneath - god DAMN is this an amazing opening. And it stays amazing as Mikael roars to life. The song is perfect for the whole first three minutes until the chorus comes in. Why he felt the need to switch to his clean voice I don't understand. It's not a bad chorus but it just doesn't compare to what came before. Luckily the track stays interesting although the bridge is worthless and, again, FUCK the clean vocals! A track with such a strong premise and then Mikael decides he's not like the other death metal singers, he's DiFfErEnT. Man. I'm still voting for Opeth just because of how strong the great moments are, even though "Smoke and Mirrors" is a great song in its own right, one of the band's most explicitly neoclassical. The highlight of this track is the synth/guitar duel between Michael P. and Michael R. Tough matchup!

"We Walk Without Fear" was surprisingly strong. Not perfect, the chorus didn't peak as high as I'd have liked, but I could kind of see Nightwish evolving into something like this if they had added another guitarist instead of a full orchestra. It's definitely the stronger song in this match, but I'm sorry, I gotta vote for Edguy. "England" is ridiculous and I hope it wins the entire game.

Fully went in expecting to go with Symphony X. I'm a bigger fan of the first "Accolade", I love the way it utilizes its longer runtime to add in extra elements the build a fuller picture than the sequel. That said, "Accolade II" is still great and excels in different places than the original. Most notably, the chorus is far better. Awesome shit. And it's got a beautiful, hopeful ending that I really like. Definitely one of the best sequels in my book. That said, "Black Rose Immortal" was way better than I expected. Those twenty minutes are well used, even if sections are a little less unified than they could've been. It really feels like Opeth's interpretation of a '70s side-long prog epic. I think the balance of acoustic and heavy sections is done really well, Mikael's clean vocals only appearing when they need to. It buckles a little in the second half but Jesus Christ the ending is insane. That scream is fucking cool. I can't not vote for it, man. It's great.

Boring round, a who gives a fuck AC/DC filler and admittedly a classic rock great. Easy vote for Aerosmith, a rarity in this game.

Another tough match to finish out the round. "Travel in Stygian" is a great song, but it doesn't get off the ground as high as other IE tracks do. There's a lot of riffing but I could use a hint or two more of melody. Obviously the Athens version is better than the original but the good moments still hit hard and I love the piano outro. But this was all over the moment I heard "Spreading the Disease" again. Awesome song, one of my favorites from O:M, one of the band's best rockers and an AMAZING chorus. The 'Rÿche is right tonight.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

“The Turning” isn’t amazing but I defy anyone to find a more dynamic Russell performance. The way he embodies the shape-shifting is amazing.

The second part of the second verse (at 1:36) is the highlight for me. I love how the guitar leads the section until the bass picks up the lead with a similar line, and yes - Russell sounds fantastic here.

 

[Abas]

Tool - Schism
Tool - Stinkfist
Schism is good. But as far as Stinkfist goes, it's a simple and good enough track that there has been periods that I've had it on repeat.

AC/DC - Bad Boy Boogie
Aerosmith - Sweet Emotion
I can replay Sweet Emotion in my head. I can't replay Bad Boy Boogie in my head.

Queensrÿche - Spreading the Disease
Iced Earth - Travel in Stygian
Honestly, it's just a matter of fact of "know that one and like it" vs "never heard it"

 

[Mosh]

Neither Tool song is great, I go for Schism mainly because it is more memorable (if not overplayed and a bit repetitive). I can get into the polyrhythmic middle section though. I actually don’t dislike Tool and both respective albums have great tracks, but neither of these are it for me. Put Lateralus up against H and then we’ll talk.

I have to say I am pretty distraught over the second matchup. My nomination is basically my idea of the perfect Symphony X song. Just like for awhile Iron Maiden was playing with a formulaic opening track between Futureal and The Final Frontier, SX has stuck to a bit of a formula for their opening songs: high speed driving riff, soaring power metal style chorus, neoclassical keys/guitar solo trade offs. They’re pretty much all great but I think Smoke and Mirrors edges out the competition a bit. It has a better riff and for me it comes down to the seamless time feel changes. Just super smooth and makes you want to headbang…

… but not as much as Bleak makes me want to headbang. I feel bad voting against my own nom but Bleak is pretty much the perfect metal song. Insane riffing, insane dynamic builds, great hooks. For a time it was my fav Opeth song and is still probably in my top 5. The Opeth representation has been very good in this game so far - better than Symphony X I would say, but I still have to go with the Opeth. Still, if you were to make a Metal Songs that Built Mosh playlist, these would both be there.

Fortunately, I have no problem voting for Accolade II over Black Rose Immortal. We’re talking about a very good Opeth prototype vs Symphony X at the peak of their powers. Probably a top 5 song for them. No contest. Just an incredible piece of work.

Sweet Emotion wins the dad rock round, but I will be happy if I never hear that song again in my life.

Spreading the Disease vs Travel in Sedition is tough, Stormrider will always be a special album for me and - much like Burnt Offerings, represents a raw and captivating side of Iced Earth that they lost a little bit as they polished their sound starting with Dark Saga. It’s hard to deny the onslaught of riffing and the devastating lyrics that button up the entire Stormrider story. Spreading the Disease is a bit of an unstoppable force though. One of the things that makes Mindcrime stand out is that they were able to keep the narrative moving but never at the expense of great standalone songs, something that inevitably becomes the downfall of many other concept albums. Maiden didn’t quite get there with Seventh Son, primarily because they were never going to take away attention from great songs even if it meant trashing the story. Queensryche meanwhile proved that you can have both. Lots of story progression happening in Spreading the Disease, but it doesn’t matter because on its own the song rocks hard and the message is clear and interesting, whether you are familiar with the surrounding narrative or not.

 

[Kalata]

We Walk Without Fear is phenomenal! Wow! What a surprise here. Melodic, powerful, emotional and epic: it’s a stone cold great slab of bombastic trad/power metal.

That's great to hear. You can check out some of their other long songs like All For One, Infinity or One Night In December.

I'm also happy that new folks are enjoying Primal Fear. Their newer material like this song can be a bit different from the old Painkiller-worship.

Yep, it sounds like Maiden. And tbh, I want such a song (the structure) on every Maiden album.

It's definitely the stronger song in this match, but I'm sorry, I gotta vote for Edguy. "England" is ridiculous and I hope it wins the entire game.

This is so wrong. A great (or at least a very good song) should win the whole thing.

 

[Diesel 11]

This is so wrong. A great (or at least a very good song) should win the whole thing.

Speak not to me of blasphemy, man; you didn’t even participate in the Tool match.