The Greatest Metal Song Cup - Part II, Round 4, Matches 82-87

What is your favourite song in each match? Vote in all six matchups!

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  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .
The Wizard is a great song, but Thin Lizzy's song with these melodies (and instrumental) is just more fun to me.
What a great song by Firewind. I need to check them. Theocracy's song is also a nice and strong 11-minutes long piece with its melodies/vocal melodies/riffs. But Manowar's song is one of my favorites from them. Very strong match.
Both songs have great riffs, but Symphony X's song is more interesting for me.
Fastway's song is cool and fun rocker, but the metal ballads with big choruses are something else for me, so Iced Earth.

Btw, I love the names of the Divisions, @LooseCannon :ok:
 
(and that fact pissed off Loosey in the previous cup so much we had an altercation so sever I actually left the forum for a while, which seems rather funny nowadays - like Woody Allen says, "comedy = tragedy + time")
I have no memory of this.

Edit: Don't post a link, if I purged it, I don't want to remember.
 
Steps up the plate...
Also, to everyone who has problems with the lyrics - try to think of me and how many times have I (or will I in the future of this cup) have to overcome some blasphemous, occult or hollywood-Satanist bullshit that is just as cheesy, way more immature and doesn't even take literal quotes from actual texts two thousand years old or older (there is quite a lot of Old Testament here as well). Let's not dwell too deep on the lyrics in general, okay?
(honestly, this irks me a bit - there is a lot of shitty lyrics here and nobody cares, but suddenly, oh, it's actually the greatest metal lyrics cup! and though we haven't been talking about lyrics the whole time, suddenly we have to mention them... Really, mates, bugger off or I will complain each and every time about some stupid occult bullshit that we'll have here.)
...ok.

So, I think the issue here is just a form of cognitive dissonance due to the genre. Heavy metal, at its core, was built on "cheesy occult, Hollywood-Satanist bullshit". That's just a fundamental part of the genre, ever since Tony Iommi hit that Devil's Interval.

I understand that your beliefs lead you to find those types of lyrics blasphemous, but digging into evil, as constructed, is an integral part of the birth of the genre. Of course there should be room in all genres for all types of lyrics and messages, but when only a literal handful of bands are responsible for representing actual Christian beliefs they are bound to face intense criticism.

One alternative mode of thought: isn't all metal that discusses the devil in some way Christian? Maybe they're slinging mud from the other side of the aisle, but the lyrical influence all comes from the same source.

I would also like to add that I find any band who seriously preaches about Satan to be absolutely as ridiculous as I find Theocracy preaching about God. I find bands that preach about politics to be ridiculous, too. I have absolutely zero tolerance for someone using their music as a campaign platform, regardless of what you're selling. Fuck off and become a priest or a politician and stop luring people in with cool looking t-shirts.

But tongue-in-cheek Satanism or Christianity? That's literally a pillar of heavy metal. For every Ghost there's a Powerwolf (who I'm still not sure what they're on about except for werewolves).

EDIT: I also must add that I have always cared about lyrics in everything and discussed them ad nauseam here, much to the chagrin of many members.
 
Also, to everyone who has problems with the lyrics - try to think of me and how many times have I (or will I in the future of this cup) have to overcome some blasphemous, occult or hollywood-Satanist bullshit that is just as cheesy, way more immature and doesn't even take literal quotes from actual texts two thousand years old or older (there is quite a lot of Old Testament here as well). Let's not dwell too deep on the lyrics in general, okay?
(honestly, this irks me a bit - there is a lot of shitty lyrics here and nobody cares, but suddenly, oh, it's actually the greatest metal lyrics cup! and though we haven't been talking about lyrics the whole time, suddenly we have to mention them... Really, mates, bugger off or I will complain each and every time about some stupid occult bullshit that we'll have here.)
For me, any lyrics that just literally quote dogma or deliver on-the-nose exaltations are eye rolling. That dogma can be religious, political, or philosophical, and of any flavor -- my objection with it is its utter lack of creativity and poetry. It's why the vast majority of modern Christian music is garbage (they're so busy stumbling over themselves to stuff every stanza with Christian applause words that they forget how to actually write a compelling lyric), and why polemic songs always walk a dangerous line between artfully delivering a message and just regurgitating talking points. (And yes, all the "me too" glam bands from the late 80s who played sexual innuendo Mad Libs with their lyric sheets are guilty of the same thing, and I really only give a pass to bands like Mötley Crüe and Ratt who were on the vanguard of the sleaze train.)

To me, a song like Gamma Ray's "Avalon" is far more effective at delivering a Christian message than something that beats you over the head with scripture quotes and endless religious money shots about lords and messiahs and surrender. A non-religious person might actually hear the message in the former, while the latter is just a circle jerk for people who are already believers. And in fairness, many classical Christian hymns manage to keep the poetry and a reasonable level of abstraction on top of great music, and are thus more effective vessels for the message than pretty much all modern Christian music.
 
Knicks, I'm not sure if we understand each other.

So, I think the issue here is just a form of cognitive dissonance due to the genre. Heavy metal, at its core, was built on "cheesy occult, Hollywood-Satanist bullshit". That's just a fundamental part of the genre, ever since Tony Iommi hit that Devil's Interval.

That might be the problem. It was never the Devil's interval.


It's just self-proclaimed edginess that has been used as an advertisement, at most, but while metal can be certainly dark, it can be light as well - for all intents and purposes, it is more or less Romantic and my main complain't ISN'T someone singing about damnation or Hell or brutal or gory stuff, I'm talking precisely of the adolescent shock intention that might have been once connected to the genre, but I would hope only in its infant stages. The self-presentation as Devil's music. Devil has no music. He is never a maker, remember.

To me, metal is about strong emotions and metaphysical, but not necessarily cheesy. And not necessarily the occult, just like Romanticism or Victorian literature isn't necessarily only about incest and/or necrophilia.

I understand that your beliefs lead you to find those types of lyrics blasphemous, but digging into evil, as constructed, is an integral part of the birth of the genre. Of course there should be room in all genres for all types of lyrics and messages, but when only a literal handful of bands are responsible for representing actual Christian beliefs they are bound to face intense criticism.

Again, there is a difference between digging into evil - as an extremity and as an integral part of the human experience - and between the stuff I might complain about. You won't see me complaining about Opeth lyrics despite Still Life or lyrics like "I'm a sinner and I worship evil" or "God is dead". You won't even see me complaining about Epica's lyrics, often strenuously anti-Christian, because although they are often not as cleverly-thought through and they are - for all intents and purposes - strawmaning to oblivion, it doesn't cross the arbitrary line where I would fault them for that.
There is, however, no reason why the spiritual or the religious side should be downright excluded from the metal paradigm - not only religion can be pretty metal - I mean, us Catholics we venerate dead bodies, build mausoleums out of bones, have crazy gore and skeletons everywere, we literally feast on the flesh and the blood of our Deity, have huge cathedrals, incense, robed, secluded, mysterious blokes and so on... - but in fact religion is that one thing that touches human beings in their entirety. Themes of guilt, repentance, self-worth, virtues, courage and bravery, sacrifice and martyrdom, passion and glory... that's not metal, somehow... why?

In fact, recently I used this picture in the Guess the Altered Title game as a clue. It’s my favourite Leal painting from the Spanish Golden Age. Absolutely religious and Catholic to the core … and say it to my face this is not metal.

F5-u-YVXAAAt7Ij.jpg

And the ineffability of awe against what from outside could be described as an eldritch horror, yet it is, well, would you believe our luck, benevolent - I don't see why it should be excluded from the metal paradigm as well.

A lot of the good Christian metal bands - I already named some of those, like early Mortification, Antestor, Extol and others - can be pretty metal even lyrics-wise.


One alternative mode of thought: isn't all metal that discusses the devil in some way Christian? Maybe they're slinging mud from the other side of the aisle, but the lyrical influence all comes from the same source.

A lot of it might be. Like I wrote above - speaking about the Devil or God or whatever can be in fact Christian (and specifially Catholic) very much. There is this idea of à bas, named after Joris-Karl Huysmans' book of the same name. He is one of the examples who went from embracing decadence and nihilism to traditional Catholicism, precisely as a journey of extremes. So, it's a complex issue and I do not get my knickers in a twist merely because I see a pentagram (which was quite likely also a Christian symbol, originally, but I digress).
Also, inverted crosses are the Cross of St. Peter and you find it everywhere in the Vatican.

What I'm talking about more is the egdy "ooooh, beloved SATAN, I fuck the virgin in the ass for you, I put my semen onto the Eucharist, ooooooh, I'm sooo eeddgggyyyy"... I mean, in a way, this is also Christian. With how extreme some of these bands try do it, it kinda feels like "the lady doth protest too much, methinks" and in a way, how they feel the need to oppose God and His virtues is a proclamation and assent to Faith sui generis.

Still, watching some bands mocking what is dear to me for no reason at all might be unpleasant. Just like if you watch someone spitting on the picture of your mother, just to be edgy and offensive and get the Waldo moment. "Dude, it's just a picture". Yes, but I may take offence to that.


I would also like to add that I find any band who seriously preaches about Satan to be absolutely as ridiculous as I find Theocracy preaching about God. I find bands that preach about politics to be ridiculous, too. I have absolutely zero tolerance for someone using their music as a campaign platform, regardless of what you're selling. Fuck off and become a priest or a politician and stop luring people in with cool looking t-shirts.

I however don't agree with this. I do think that things you care about may be reflected in the art you do; in fact they always are, somehow, and most of the art that survives through the ages does reflect its authors serious attitudes. I agree that I don't like when the bands are being preachy - whether it's politics, religion or whatever (I'm looking at you, TUOMAS), but not every band has to be a mask wearing entertaining jester who doesn't take anything seriously.
A band that is serious about its (theistic) Satanism... well, I find that misguided up to the point of being insane, but still, it is an integral approach and in a way, I respect that more than edgy-point seeking self-advertisers of "yo mama and yo preacher won't like this, kiddo!"

But tongue-in-cheek Satanism or Christianity? That's literally a pillar of heavy metal. For every Ghost there's a Powerwolf (who I'm still not sure what they're on about except for werewolves).

I also don't know what Powerwolf are about and I rather not think about it too much. Ghost, well, I would overlook their mocking of my religion if I could respect the music, at least. Unfortunately, it was not to be.


For me, any lyrics that just literally quote dogma or deliver on-the-nose exaltations are eye rolling. That dogma can be religious, political, or philosophical, and of any flavor -- my objection with it is its utter lack of creativity and poetry. It's why the vast majority of modern Christian music is garbage (they're so busy stumbling over themselves to stuff every stanza with Christian applause words that they forget how to actually write a compelling lyric), and why polemic songs always walk a dangerous line between artfully delivering a message and just regurgitating talking points. (And yes, all the "me too" glam bands from the late 80s who played sexual innuendo Mad Libs with their lyric sheets are guilty of the same thing, and I really only give a pass to bands like Mötley Crüe and Ratt who were on the vanguard of the sleaze train.)

To me, a song like Gamma Ray's "Avalon" is far more effective at delivering a Christian message than something that beats you over the head with scripture quotes and endless religious money shots about lords and messiahs and surrender. A non-religious person might actually hear the message in the former, while the latter is just a circle jerk for people who are already believers. And in fairness, many classical Christian hymns manage to keep the poetry and a reasonable level of abstraction on top of great music, and are thus more effective vessels for the message than pretty much all modern Christian music.

I get this point, in a way I agree. That's why I wrote the Protestant - Catholic distinction there at the very beginning of my commentary on the matchup and what I wrote even in this very post above.

Though - it's not dogma, it's mostly just quotes from the Bible, which are rather old and I find them rather poetic. But there's no accounting for taste, I guess.
Like I said, I love LOTR much more than Narnia, though both are Christian to their very core.


But (and this goes to @MrKnickerbocker as well) my point there in the brackets was why do we not talk about lyrics in general (whether or not they "fit")? A lot of these lyrics were, are or will be rather stupid, because 80 % of everything is stupid, yet only now it's so huge a problem everyone has to complain about it? I found that one-sided and that was the basis of my complaint.
I don't think we'll be ranting about Motley Crue singing about sex or ... well, like I wrote in my post nobody complained about the stupid hippie crap of Heep's The Wizard, although it's just as "dogmatic" and on the nose in a way. But it's not Christian, so nobody notices.



Anyway, I don't want to defend it too much, sorry for the long post, I just wanted to express my position in the clearest way I could.


Maybe I should have nominated Nailed from the same album. It's about Luther, for crying out loud! Nobody would think me assenting to its lyrics. (And maybe nobody would notice them, because they're less explicit)


(but is more of a pure power metal than the power-prog mix I Am has, that's why I didn't)
 
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Powerwolf's message isn't that different from Ghost's. Religion is a source of inspiration but essentially just one big joke for both bands.
 
Since you edited your post and mine is long as is

EDIT: I also must add that I have always cared about lyrics in everything and discussed them ad nauseam here, much to the chagrin of many members.

I believe you, my bad, then, somehow I didn't notice this, I will be more attentive in the future.


Also, since this is, after all, really a tangent, maybe we could have a separate thread for interpretation, meanings and all that shenanigan in art? Would anyone else be interested? (I had such interpretation as a theme for my bachelor's thesis, so I'm somewhat more interested in this, but I don't know if others are, too)
 
my point there in the brackets was why do we not talk about lyrics in general (whether or not they "fit")? A lot of these lyrics were, are or will be rather stupid, because 80 % of everything is stupid, yet only now it's so huge a problem everyone has to complain about it? I found that one-sided and that was the basis of my complaint.
Lyrics aren't generally a huge factor for me in assessing a song unless they stand out in a particularly positive or negative way (either in content or phrasing). I've grumbled about the lyrics in 5 songs in the GMSC so far, and only one of them was a Christian song, so ironically your complaint is exactly 80% stupid, at least when applied to me! :p
 
Uriah Heep -The Wizard -->I love Thin Lizzy but this was no contest really
Firewind -Hate World Hero -->tough battle between this and Theocracy - I Am kudos to @DJMayes & @JudasMyGuide
Mastodon -Sultan's Curse --> tough choice between this and Symphony X - Fallen kudos to @Confeos and @Wogmidget
Pierce the Veil -King for a Day -->nothing special but in the kingdom of blinds, one eyed is the king as we say.
Iced Earth -Melancholy -->kudos @KiDDo and strange that just one member nominated this classic. Strange choices from Popoff so far.
Evanscence -->those non members lists are quite doubtful and this was the better of two evils.
 
"Black Rose" is probably my favourite Lizzy-track, though there are so many amazing ones to choose from. But honestly, that Lynott/Moore-combo is just legendary, and I'm always on board with some folky, medieval melodies and lyrics. "The Wizard" is fine, but there are much better Uriah Heep-songs out there. Thin Lizzy.

"Hate World Hero" is actually decent; it managed to get my head bopping along, and the singer sounded just a little bit like Dio at times. Manowar is always good fun, but "Brothers of Metal" is not their best song. But then Theocracy showed up with a tune that just blew the other two out of the water. "I Am" is right up my alley, and I felt engaged every single second of it. The lyrics didn't bother me, even if they were the only thing I found somewhat weak about the song. Theocracy.

What Mastodon and Symphony X have in common is that I fell in love with both bands through their more recent material, and then kinda worked my way backwards through their respective catalogues. Both have a "newer" album that I consider among my all-time favourites, and both these are for some reason also regarded as low points for the majority. The Symphony X album in question is Paradise Lost, and for Mastodon it's Emperor of Sand, obviously. Honestly, out of the 11 songs on the album, I would rate 9 of them a perfect 10/10. "Sultan's Curse" is one of these; it has everything I love about Mastodon: tight, proggy riffs; unconventional song structure; amazing lyrics, and a perfect combo of the three vocalists. That being said, if it were to get knocked out early, it might as well fall to Symphony X - even if I think they've made much better songs than "Fallen". So anyway, voting for Mastodon.

"King for a Day" has some decent elements. The vocals fit surprisingly well, but the music has that annoying emo feel that I'm not quite sold on. Also, the ending was stupid. I recall that the GMAC featured some Sunn O))), which wasn't half bad, but there's just a lack of... anything coherent, basically, in "It Took the Night to Believe". Voting for Pierce the Veil, but I don't think it will go very far.

Fastway's singer definitely sounds like he's channeling his inner Dio in "Say What You Will". Actually, the entire song kinda comes off as a cross between Rainbow and Led Zeppelin, though not nearly as good. It's fun, but doesn't offer much else.
I often see "Melancholy" treated like an inferior "I Died for You", but I honestly think it's a much better song. Definitely on of the best on Something Wicked.... Barlow's performance is so emotional and the chorus is just killer. Iced Earth, easily.

I can't stand Amy Lee's vocals. There's a kind of "whine" to them that I just don't agree with, and "My Immortal" is just boring. FFDP will never be a band I'm compelled to listen much to, but "Wrong Side of Heaven" is decent enough, so I'm voting for it here. Five Finger Death Punch.
 
What Mastodon and Symphony X have in common is that I fell in love with both bands through their more recent material, and then kinda worked my way backwards through their respective catalogues. Both have a "newer" album that I consider among my all-time favourites, and both these are for some reason also regarded as low points for the majority. The Symphony X album in question is Paradise Lost, and for Mastodon it's Emperor of Sand, obviously. Honestly, out of the 11 songs on the album, I would rate 9 of them a perfect 10/10. "Sultan's Curse" is one of these; it has everything I love about Mastodon: tight, proggy riffs; unconventional song structure; amazing lyrics, and a perfect combo of the three vocalists. That being said, if it were to get knocked out early, it might as well fall to Symphony X - even if I think they've made much better songs than "Fallen". So anyway, voting for Mastodon.
I recently did an almost-full-listen of Mastodon's discography (starting with Leviathan), and I didn't find Emperor to be one of their stronger efforts. My favorite song on the album, Show Yourself, is generally hated by Mastodonians for being too "catchy" (because that's a bad thing, you see). In general I feel that Emperor was bookended by stronger albums, between the bangin' Once More... and the more melancholy and often Opethian Hushed. That said, nothing Mastodon has done (and probably ever will do) can touch Crack the Skye for me. That album is practically pure perfection, with the weakest part (the title track) still being good. I think it's the prog in me. I could listen to Czar for hours.

Symphony X has been my favorite band for 20 years now, and while I prefer their earlier more neoclassical sound, Paradise Lost is a monster of an album. It's definitely the most straightforward of their records, but to me there isn't a song lower than a 9/10 on the entire thing. Some of them - namely Babylon and Domination - are among my favorites from their entire career. My only gripe about the album is that it foregoes the typical Symphony X-isms (polymetrics and overall dynamic progressiveness) for a more straightforward Priest-like approach. While Iconoclast brought back the polymetrics (see the title track, Children of a Faceless God, When All is Lost, Electric Messiah, Prometheus, and Reign in Madness), the album overall was 80+ minutes of practically the same thing. Underworld was definitely a step in the right direction, blending their previous two albums nicely.

I can't wait to hear what both bands will do next. I'd love to hear what Mastodon did on Hushed with a more progressive and slightly more aggressive approach, whereas Symphony X needs to get off their lazy asses and make a new album already. They approach Tool-like levels of waiting games.

Have you heard Michael Romeo's two latest solo albums, War of the Worlds parts 1 and 2? They're both very strong and Paradise Lost-ish, with the second having a singer who is very Russell-like in style.
 
(honestly, this irks me a bit - there is a lot of shitty lyrics here and nobody cares, but suddenly, oh, it's actually the greatest metal lyrics cup! and though we haven't been talking about lyrics the whole time, suddenly we have to mention them... Really, mates, bugger off or I will complain each and every time about some stupid occult bullshit that we'll have here.)
Lyrically Dallas 1PM is a mess in the Iron Maiden school of reciting events without any real lyricism.
The lyrics and vocal delivery are really goofy but in a fun way, not a boring "here is my 3rd grade book report on the JFK shooting" way. The band is super tight and manage to validate the cheesiness with great musicianship.
Once you get past the Metal cheese and goofy lyrics, the song has quite a bit to offer in terms of great guitar riffs and cool rhythmic moments.
The chaotic instrumental section is great and the macabre lyrics are fun.

Lyrics are a pretty important criteria for me and while they don't make or break a song, it makes a difference if a song is trying something interesting with its lyrics. It's disingenuous to say that it hasn't come up until now. Bad lyrics are bad lyrics and Theocracy's lyrics have the level of nuance and maturity as... well, Manowar.
 
Show Yourself, is generally hated by Mastodonians for being too "catchy" (because that's a bad thing, you see).

I, for one, definitely don't hate Show Yourself because it's catchy - so is a lot of songs in their discography - but mostly because it sounds - in the words of Anthony Fantano - like "Foo Fighters doing a Queens of the Stone Age cover, with these Dave Grohl annoying vocals over some Josh Homme riffs".

For the record, the whole album sounds unpleasantly like they were listening too much to Stone Temple Pilots or something. Especially the vocals and vocal melodies and the overall simplicity of the album... don't know, I don't hate it, it's just I really loved it when it came out and I don't anymore. Apart from Roots Remain, there is no stellar song as such and I could could the really good ones on the fingers of one hand, probably.

On the contrary, Once More Round the Sun is the complete opposite, I love every song there, with the unfortunate exception of Aunt Lisa - man, what a dreadful song.

That said, nothing Mastodon has done (and probably ever will do) can touch Crack the Skye for me

Hushed has. I could write an essey on the album - I probably will, one of these days, but if anything, I love it even more than Cracked, than Once, than Blood Mountain, than anything.

Paradise Lost is a monster of an album. It's definitely the most straightforward of their records, but to me there isn't a song lower than a 9/10 on the entire thing. Some of them - namely Babylon and Domination - are among my favorites from their entire career. My only gripe about the album is that it foregoes the typical Symphony X-isms (polymetrics and overall dynamic progressiveness) for a more straightforward Priest-like approach. While Iconoclast brought back the polymetrics (see the title track, Children of a Faceless God, When All is Lost, Electric Messiah, Prometheus, and Reign in Madness), the album overall was 80+ minutes of practically the same thing. Underworld was definitely a step in the right direction, blending their previous two albums nicely.

I love Paradise Lost and it might be among my favourite albums by them. Although you don't see Eve of Seduction or Seven mentioned too often, they are among my favourite tracks in their discography.
Iconoclast - I still remain an apologist, I really love the album, even though I understand why many don't.
Underworld... kinda similar to Emperor of Sand (though not to such degree) - Ioved it when it came out, but over time, I almost completely stopped listening to it apart from Legend. The title track is somewhat fun, the face metling aggression with blastbeats of Kiss of Fire is good, Charon is somewhere high as well and To Hell and Back - while it should have been shorter (as opposed to most of the rest of the album which should have been longer instead, especially Swan Song) is also kinda nice. But I feel no need to replay that one.
 
Lyrics are a pretty important criteria for me and while they don't make or break a song, it makes a difference if a song is trying something interesting with its lyrics. It's disingenuous to say that it hasn't come up until now. Bad lyrics are bad lyrics and Theocracy's lyrics have the level of nuance and maturity as... well, Manowar.

Unlike with Knicks, with you I noticed and I didn't mean you in particular, if it's any consolation.
 
Thin Lizzy - Róisín Dubh (Black Rose) A Rock Legend vs. Uriah Heep - The Wizard
I think when picking a Lizzy track I probably nominated Emerald, but Róisín Dubh would have been up there giving it a run for it's money. The riff is great obviously, the lyrics are heartfelt, and the focal point being the section with all the trad melodies. I like the fact they threw Shenandoah in there for Scott Gorham too.
I have a couple of Heep albums, this and the first one, think they sound great especially the hammond but there's a tendency for some awful lyrics, and The Wizard is no exception. The track also fades out when it feels like its only starting. Róisín Dubh (Black Rose) A Rock Legend

Firewind - Hate World Hero vs. Manowar - Brothers of Metal Pt. 1 vs. Theocracy - I Am

Firewind track is pretty good and the solo is tasty but it just really, really sounds like a Dio track. Also, I always hate the key change final chorus in songs in general, but this one also kind of makes the chord progression too reminiscent of a big OTT 80s hit, something like Poison by Alice Cooper, which isn't great when the songs was a bit lacking in individuality to begin with.
I can enjoy the ridiculousness and preposterousness of Manowar on a tongue in cheek level if the music is fun, but this is a bit of a mid-tempo dirge, I might have voted for Return of the Warlord or The Gods Made Heavy Metal if they were in this round, but they aren't.
Theocracy track is a bit of a mess, loads of disparate section slapped together. Usually, in a big epic track the different musical changes are supposed to evoke what's happening in the narrative of the song, but every lyric is just the same old variation along the theme of "i am the loaves, I am the fishes" there isn't any narrative, or even a second point. Also, is it not a sin to sing lyrics in the first person that cast yourself in the role of Jesus Christ? Hate World Hero

Mastodon - Sultan's Curse vs. Symphony X - Fallen

I've seen Mastodon live a couple of times, opening for Slayer and Maiden, and they weren't great, in fact the were the worst live band I've seen apart from novelty acts the Murderdolls and Machine Gun Kelly. I think that maybe clouds my judgement on them, as the tracks I've checked out in the GMAC, and now this track, have been pretty good. Maybe not quite good enough for me to run out and buy an album in the morning, but certainly a lot better than what I saw in the flesh. And I can see why they were the great white hope of a generation a while back, if not quite for me.
Symphony X, is pretty decent, like a more interesting version of DT and with a real good singer, but I like a bit of rawness and groove in my metal. Sultan's Curse

Pierce the Veil - King For a Day vs. Sunn O))) - It Took the Night to Believe

Pierce the Veil: aren't veil's kind of lacy, like there's already holes in it, how do you pierce that? This is pretty awful shit, overproduced pop music with some shouting. I've no idea where this band fits in in the popularity stakes, but if this is an example of where commercial metal has progressed to from the Linkin Park and System of a Down tracks the other day, then it's on a sharp downward trajectory.
Sunn 0))) how do people get bent out of shape when Guns N' Roses or Rush are in a metal competition but not at this? It's not even a song King For a Day

Fastway - Say What You Will vs. Iced Earth - Melancholy (Holy Martyr)

Does Fast Eddie have any other riffs? Rhythm section isn't great but the singer is good (not Irish bias, he is good). If you had Lemmy and Phil Taylor playing you would probably have a much edgier track.
Iced Earth starts with a bit of a Geoff Tate style vocal, chorus is pretty good, solo is good but drummer needs to know to let someone else have their spot in the limelight and not start trying to steal focus during someone elses solo. Seems like a fairly solid album track not sure if I'd be putting this forward as a representation of the band, but then again I'm not familiar with their stuff so maybe this is a stand out??? Melancholy (Holy Martyr)

Five Finger Death Punch - Wrong Side of Heaven vs. Evanescence - My Immortal

This is pretty overproduced for my tastes. I was actual expecting a much more redneck style lyric, but it's actually not that bad, I agree with the sentiment about the wrong side of heaven and the righteous side of hell. I find it hard to understand why anyone would join an army, I can't fathom being willing to risk my life and to kill others just to earn a pittance of a wage, but if there wasn't people willing to do so you'ld have cunts like Putin having free rein. Not bad.
Evanescence, this is like Heart for the MySpace generation, not bad for what it is, but not something I'd be in danger of playing of my own freewill. Wrong Side of Heaven
 
Also, is it not a sin to sing lyrics in the first person that cast yourself in the role of Jesus Christ?

(No. Not only it is a sin not to strive to become Christ-like in every way, but you definitely can portray Jesus in art. You have yourself personally definitely heard about movies where someone did just that. We're not Muslims.)

Dunno if this was a serious question, but you got an answer anyway. :ninja:
 
I recently did an almost-full-listen of Mastodon's discography (starting with Leviathan), and I didn't find Emperor to be one of their stronger efforts. My favorite song on the album, Show Yourself, is generally hated by Mastodonians for being too "catchy" (because that's a bad thing, you see). In general I feel that Emperor was bookended by stronger albums, between the bangin' Once More... and the more melancholy and often Opethian Hushed. That said, nothing Mastodon has done (and probably ever will do) can touch Crack the Skye for me. That album is practically pure perfection, with the weakest part (the title track) still being good. I think it's the prog in me. I could listen to Czar for hours.
I don't have a problem with Show Yourself being catchy, I actually think it's a pretty weak attempt at writing a pop metal song. Once More has plenty of examples of that style working, I just find Show Yourself to be really lousy and dull. I agree that they have never really touched what they achieved on Crack the Skye.
 
I recently did an almost-full-listen of Mastodon's discography (starting with Leviathan), and I didn't find Emperor to be one of their stronger efforts. My favorite song on the album, Show Yourself, is generally hated by Mastodonians for being too "catchy" (because that's a bad thing, you see). In general I feel that Emperor was bookended by stronger albums, between the bangin' Once More... and the more melancholy and often Opethian Hushed. That said, nothing Mastodon has done (and probably ever will do) can touch Crack the Skye for me. That album is practically pure perfection, with the weakest part (the title track) still being good. I think it's the prog in me. I could listen to Czar for hours.

Symphony X has been my favorite band for 20 years now, and while I prefer their earlier more neoclassical sound, Paradise Lost is a monster of an album. It's definitely the most straightforward of their records, but to me there isn't a song lower than a 9/10 on the entire thing. Some of them - namely Babylon and Domination - are among my favorites from their entire career. My only gripe about the album is that it foregoes the typical Symphony X-isms (polymetrics and overall dynamic progressiveness) for a more straightforward Priest-like approach. While Iconoclast brought back the polymetrics (see the title track, Children of a Faceless God, When All is Lost, Electric Messiah, Prometheus, and Reign in Madness), the album overall was 80+ minutes of practically the same thing. Underworld was definitely a step in the right direction, blending their previous two albums nicely.

I can't wait to hear what both bands will do next. I'd love to hear what Mastodon did on Hushed with a more progressive and slightly more aggressive approach, whereas Symphony X needs to get off their lazy asses and make a new album already. They approach Tool-like levels of waiting games.

Have you heard Michael Romeo's two latest solo albums, War of the Worlds parts 1 and 2? They're both very strong and Paradise Lost-ish, with the second having a singer who is very Russell-like in style.
I love "Show Yourself". Compared to stuff from Leviathan, I can definitely see why it would put older fans off, but I think it's amazing. Troy's vocals in the chorus are a high point for me; I like to think he sounds a bit more vulnerable than usual, and it's a side of him you don't see (hear) very often. I do think Emperor of Sand is stronger than Once More... and Hushed and Grim, or at least more coherent. Once More... is close, but a bit uneven, and Hushed and Grim could do with a bit of trimming, i.e. cutting down the number of songs. And it needs more vocals from Brent.
Crack the Skye is absolutely my second favourite, and yes, "The Czar" is amazing - so much I had to nominate it for the cup as well

Regarding Symphony X; it's hard to pick just one from Paradise Lost, but if you put a gun to my head, I'd go with "Domination". I read Paradise Lost (the poem) years ago, before I heard the album, and one of the reasons I like it so much is that they both manage to capture all the anger and wrath of Satan after he's cast down to Hell to perfection, especially in "Domination" and "Set the World on Fire", while also beautifully showing the sadness and tragedy of Adam and Eve's banishment from Eden in the title track. The tricky part about concept albums is not just writing a coherent story; it's about putting the right emotions at the right time in both the music and the lyrics, and, in this case, staying true to the source and its characters. Symphony X manage to do that with Paradise Lost.
Ironically, I didn't nominate anything from it to the cup, but while Paradise Lost is my favourite album overall, my favourite song is from a different one (The Odyssey).
I think I rate Underworld just a bit higher than Iconoclast, but both are very strong - and I can't wait for them to put something new together!

I'm not familiar with Romeo's solo albums, but I will absolutely check them out
 
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