The Greatest Metal Song Cup - Part II, Round 4, Matches 82-87

[Diesel 11]

Y’all must be conflating “luck” with “talent”. Ghost’s best songs are full of memorable hooks, it’s little wonder that they’re so popular.

Ringo’s drumming may be more simplistic than what we’re used to nowadays but when he joined the band the rest of the group looked upon him as essentially the most sophisticated member. He was a major step up from Pete Best and still has a unique swing to his rhythms. His songwriting was never on the same level as the others, but he could adapt to whatever they threw at him, and after they split he was the one the others kept coming back to collaborate with.

Ozzy you can make a case for being the right guy at the right time, but his unique warble really did add a layer of mystique and darkness to the band’s material. There’s no way Dio would’ve excelled at something like “Black Sabbath” the way Ozzy did. And when he transferred to a solo career he had some great producers who knew how to work with his voice. Definitely a lucky guy (especially since he’s still alive lol) but I think this board underestimates what he brought to the table.

 

[Spambot]

Ringo may not be the best example but it is the most famous one, there were numerous occasions where Ringo was mentioned as "the lucky one".

I agree with everything you said about Ozzy, but just having a distinct voice isn't enough to be considered talented, since his singing is also very limiting. For example, Lemmy had a distinct limited vocal capabilities but at least he wrote his own songs (which Ozzy never did, neither in Sabbath or solo) and he managed his band/career by himself (Sharon). I'll add he had a "character" or "personality" but speaking of music terms - Ozzy was pretty lucky to be surrounded by Iommi, Butler, Sharon, Rhandy, Zakk etc. There was this good post from Zare who explained that Ozzy came at the right time during the end of the hippy-era and thus being seen as the ultimate front-man. I can't really remember how he explained it, but it made sense.

As per Ghost, I agree with Diesel. I may not like his music, but Tobias knows very well what is he trying to do and he's doing it successfully. No luck there, the guy obviously has a nose for this kind of thing.

 

[____no5]

Ringo is a very good and very influential drummer, bad example.

 

[LooseCannon]

Celtic Frost? Procreating the wicked? That's breaking the law. Judas Priest wins handily. Linkin Park is numb when they consider the depths and manic insanities of Dream Theater's octavarium. The king of rock and roll gets struck down by a square hammer wielded by a Ghost. Epic win for Faith No More. Some sort of nonsense lyrics here! Rush wins. Demon was riding the crazy train if they thought they could beat Ozzy Osbourne.

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Part II, Round 1, Matches 37-42​

Group Stage - Round 1	Match 37​	Death on the Road Division​
AC/DC - Back in Black	vs.​	Kansas - Carry on Wayward Son​
Popoff 500, Rolling Stone 100, Radio EHS 100, VH1 40	Nominators​	Popoff 500​
0-0-0, 0 pts, +0	Record​	0-0-0, 0 pts, +0​
Youtube | Spotify | Amazon	Links​	Youtube | Spotify | Amazon​

Group Stage - Round 1	Match 38​	Dance of Death Division​
Slayer - South of Heaven	vs.​	Nightwish - Last Ride of the Day​
Popoff 500, Rolling Stone 100, DigitalDreamDoor 100, Radio EHS 100, Rate Your Music 100	Nominators​	@Kalata​
0-0-0, 0 pts, +0	Record​	0-0-0, 0 pts, +0​
Youtube | Spotify | Amazon	Links​	Youtube | Spotify | Amazon​

Group Stage - Round 1	Match 39​	Sign of the Cross Division​
Blind Guardian - Mirror Mirror	vs.​	Evanescence - Call Me When You're Sober​
@Black Bart, @Confeos, @KiDDo	Nominators​	Youtube 50​
0-0-0, 0 pts, +0	Record​	0-0-0, 0 pts, +0​
Youtube | Spotify | Amazon	Links​	Youtube | Spotify | Amazon​

Group Stage - Round 1	Match 40​	Beast Over Hammersmith Division​
Black Sabbath - Sweet Leaf	vs.​	Symphony X - Church of the Machine​
Popoff 500, DigitalDreamDoor 100, Rate Your Music 100	Nominators​	@LooseCannon​
0-0-0, 0 pts, +0	Record​	0-0-0, 0 pts, +0​
Youtube | Spotify | Amazon	Links​	Youtube | Spotify | Amazon​

Group Stage - Round 1	Match 41​	Afraid to Shoot Strangers Division​
Exodus - Bonded by Blood	vs.​	Overkill - The Years of Decay​
Popoff 500, DigitalDreamDoor 100, Rate Your Music 100	Nominators​	Popoff 500​
0-0-0, 0 pts, +0	Record​	0-0-0, 0 pts, +0​
Youtube | Spotify | Amazon	Links​	Youtube | Spotify | Amazon​

Group Stage - Round 1	Match 42​	Edward the Great Division​
Marilyn Manson - The Beautiful People	vs.​	W.A.S.P. - The Great Misconceptions of Me​
Popoff 500, VH1 40, Youtube 50	Nominators​	@The Dissident​
0-0-0, 0 pts, +0	Record​	0-0-0, 0 pts, +0​
Youtube | Spotify | Amazon	Links​	Youtube | Spotify | Amazon​

 

[Diesel 11]

Honestly, an easy round I can vote for right away.

"Back in Black" is a classic but Kansas are just next level.

Hate to vote against Nightwish but "Last Ride" is overrated and "South of Heaven" is killer from beginning to end. Love that sinister intro and when the song gets going it never lets up. One of Slayer's best.

"Call Me When You're Sober" is good; "Mirror Mirror" is one of power metal's most memorable tunes. Blind Guardian

I enjoy "Sweet Leaf" but I feel like it gets stuck in the same groove for too long. My partner loves it though. Even with that factor I still have to give it to Symphony X for a more engaging song from beginning to end with a massive chorus that gets stuck in your head.

"The Years of Decay" is fine. "Bonded by Blood" is a thrash classic and awesome from start to finish. This is one of those "we're so metal" songs that I think really succeeds at getting that image across. Exodus

"The Great Misconceptions of Me" is a powerful album closer and will probably win this match, but I gotta give the vote to Manson because that song is a banger. The drum intro is nicked from Iron Maiden, by the way, shoutout to that band. Shame they didn't have any songs in this game.

 

[TheMercenary]

 

[LooseCannon]

Back in Black is a perfectly fine song, but it's hardly interesting. Carry On Wayward Son isn't metal, but there's some neat metal adjacent stuff in there, and I just like it more, therefore, Kansas.

South of Heaven is always one step less brutal than I expect it to be whenever I spin it. Still, it's a thrash legend of a song for a reason. Big crunch riffs and really bad shouting at the microphone. If it was that one step more brutal I think it would be remembered as the best Slayer song. That said, it's a big battle axe up against the equivalent of a balloon with this Nightwish track, which is a mid tier track for the band and is a mockery of better Nightwish songs that came before it. Slayer in a cakewalk.

Mirror Mirror is one of the best Blind Guardian tracks, and certainly one I am looking forward to hearing when I see the band live in May. It's got a nice big guitar sound and a killer chorus, really the sort of stuff power metal was made to do. Pure energy distilled into musical form. Evanescence is fine within their genre, but this isn't an example of their best work, and they always just remind me of watching them get killed on stage when they opened for Maiden at Download 2007. Absolutely Blind Guardian.

When I was first getting into metal, Sweet Leaf was a song I really liked. Nowadays I consider it very bland and basic against the body of Sabbath's work. It's got a neat little bluesy sound I dig, but it's still kinda baby's first metal song, you know? Meanwhile Church of the Machine is a nice big epic, with fascinating progressive guitar work, strong drumming, and a powerful vocal performance. It was also nominated by the server's coolest guy. Symphony X.

Bonded by Blood is perfectly fine, I guess. Exodus has never really meshed with me. This song is technically fine, nice and thrashy and I can feel why people would like it, but it just passes me by. Meanwhile The Years of Decay is one of my favourite finds of the tournament. Thoughtful and deep. I love it, so definitely Overkill here.

I have some level of nostalgia for this Marilyn Manson song, a level of nostalgia that is disrupted by hearing it uncensored (which should tell you a lot about how I was consuming it when I was 14). That being said, it objectively sucks. W.A.S.P. doesn't suck that much.

 

[Mosh]

Guys, I love Ringo Starr’s playing but the quip that he is “the luckiest guy in show business” has been around for ages, it wasn’t invented by Spambot. It’s true that he was a glue for the band, especially in the latter stages, but it’s also true that he was a session drummer who was lucky enough to be recommended to join a band with two of the greatest songwriters who ever lived. That’s not a criticism of Ringo, that’s just a fact of the luck factor in the music business.

I agree Ozzy is the next most lucky. Nevermind the fact that he shouldn’t have even lived to see the 80s, the amount of successful career resuscitations he had over the years is insane.

 

[Diesel 11]

Guys, I love Ringo Starr’s playing but the quip that he is “the luckiest guy in show business” has been around for ages, it wasn’t invented by Spambot. It’s true that he was a glue for the band, especially in the latter stages, but it’s also true that he was a session drummer who was lucky enough to be recommended to join a band with two of the greatest songwriters who ever lived. That’s not a criticism of Ringo, that’s just a fact of the luck factor in the music business.

How was he a session drummer? Before The Beatles he was playing with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, one of the relatively largest bands to come out of the skiffle scene. He joined The Beatles expressly on Lennon's invitation, too. I don't see this as luck. When he joined the group he was effectively the most established member. It's just that when you look back at The Beatles, you see how insanely talented John and Paul were from the beginning, and how George rose up to join that rank by the end of their career. Ringo stayed Ringo from beginning to end. Calling him a session drummer who got lucky kind of downplays who "Ringo Starr" was when he joined the group in the first place.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

 

[Magnus]

Bonded By Blood is such a blatant remake of Venom's Black Metal - but I'm still voting for it over Overkill's (20) Years of Boredom.

 

[Mosh]

How was he a session drummer? Before The Beatles he was playing with Rory Storm and the Hurricanes, one of the relatively largest bands to come out of the skiffle scene. He joined The Beatles expressly on Lennon's invitation, too. I don't see this as luck. When he joined the group he was effectively the most established member. It's just that when you look back at The Beatles, you see how insanely talented John and Paul were from the beginning, and how George rose up to join that rank by the end of their career. Ringo stayed Ringo from beginning to end. Calling him a session drummer who got lucky kind of downplays who "Ringo Starr" was when he joined the group in the first place.

No you're right, calling him a session drummer was inaccurate, but a gigging drummer who was in a few well respected bands before The Beatles. Yes, he was probably the best drummer in Liverpool by the time he joined The Beatles. But after that we'll have to agree to disagree. There is a lot of luck that goes into being the drummer for The Beatles, nobody would have known what they were getting into pre-Beatlemania. He could have easily decided to stay with Tony Sheridan's band instead or The Hurricanes.

 

[Mosh]

One the "songs I could never hear again and it would still be too soon" matchup, it has to be Back in Black. Wayward Son is probably a better song but not very Metal. Back in Black is at least metal adjacent. Meh.

I really liked Anette in Nightwish, but also recognize that it wasn't a great fit compared to Tarja and later Floor. Anyway I always really dug the hook on Last Ride of the Day. What it ultimately comes down to though is that South of Heaven is one of 3 or 4 Slayer songs that genuinely deserve to go far in this game, while I can think of 10 Nightwish songs that are more deserving to go forward.

Send Mirror Mirror straight to the finals.

Sweet Leaf vs Church of the Machine is brutal, but I gotta go with Symphony X. I think I said it last time the song appeared, but I really feel like SX don't have enough songs in their catalog like Church. Brutal riff fests that are also very proggy and technically impressive. They rarely get that prog metal combination exactly right, but they did here.

It bums me out, but I cannot get into Exodus or Overkill. I was ready to vote for Exodus based on song length alone - I wasn't ready for an 8 minute Overkill cut, but The Years of Decay actually won me over. A pretty tight song overall and some great riffing. The vocals are what they are, but he puts in a solid enough performance to make up for any vocal limitations. Bonded by Blood is just too cacophonous and rhythmically messy for me. The Overkill song is much better performed. That outro riff.

Speaking of 8+ minute songs I don't want to listen to, it took a lot of self motivation to go ahead and listen to the WASP song again before deciding to go for Marilyn Manson by default. I can only take so much of Blackie's ridiculously pretentious self flaggelation. By the two and a half minute mark, I'm pretty much done, but things pick up sufficiently by then and it goes from being an eye roll fest to an actual pretty cool Maiden gallop slab. I'll say this, The Beautiful People is important for its genre and I don't think really deserves the shellacking it's getting. I ended up enjoying Misconception of Me enough to vote for it though.

 

[____no5]

Guys, I love Ringo Starr’s playing but the quip that he is “the luckiest guy in show business” has been around for ages, it wasn’t invented by Spambot. It’s true that he was a glue for the band, especially in the latter stages, but it’s also true that he was a session drummer who was lucky enough to be recommended to join a band with two of the greatest songwriters who ever lived. That’s not a criticism of Ringo, that’s just a fact of the luck factor in the music business.

I wasn’t aware of that, in that sense he was quite lucky yes.

Plus the fact that was left handed made him write some very innovative and what would be hard-to-play licks, for most of drummers.

I don’t think Ozzy was lucky, he was extremely authentic and good hearted which audience loved, he had a good manager and he was not afraid to change. Don’t underestimate the latter. Lucky he had strong health maybe.

 

[JudasMyGuide]

Back in Black is an awesome song, it has a great riff, it has tons of swagger, it's truly a deserved classic. However, it's Kansas that's closer to my heart in general, so I'm going to vote for that, especially as it's losing currently.

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Slayer's South of Heaven is one of the songs (and albums) by them that I even genuinely like. A rarity indeed, but I can't help it, even a mid-tier (at best) track from one of my favourite bands is much, much more enjoyable. Also, Anette-fronted Nightwish is the second best Nightwish imaginable and that's quite a lot - it's definitely better than the best Slayer imaginable.

Nightwish.

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Lol, Blind Guardian. (duh, another of my beloved bands, not sure if it's still in top 5, but it's high)

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I'm going to go with Black Sabbath, since I feel the classic era with Ozzy tends to be quite underrated on this forum - whereas Symph X, much as I love them, tend to be a bit overrated instead. Master of Reality is probably my third favourite Sabbath album and Sweet Leaf is a stoner-rock/metal classic and the progenitor of the entire subgenre. Also, the riff!

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Overkill over Exodus.



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Lol, WASP and I'm not even much of a WASP fan, being a Swarthy Italo-Celtic-Moravian Catholic myself.

 

[Kalata]

Easy wins for Back In Black and The Great Misconception Of Me - big classic songs.
Not because it's my nominee, but Last Ride Of The Day is better. Classic Nightwish. Many bands can dream for such a chorus.
Mirror Mirror might be BG's best song. That melodic riff!
Symphony X's song has interesting music.

That said, it's a big battle axe up against the equivalent of a balloon with this Nightwish track, which is a mid tier track for the band and is a mockery of better Nightwish songs that came before it.

You couldn't have been more wrong.

 

[KidInTheDark666]

Slayer vs Nightwish is an interesting matchup to me. I like both bands pretty much equally, but Slayer's strengths lie in consistent full albums while Nightwish definitely have them beat in the number of standout tracks, one of which Last Ride of the Day definitely is. God I love that chorus.

 

[Diesel 11]

Slayer vs Nightwish is an interesting matchup to me. I like both bands pretty much equally, but Slayer's strengths lie in consistent full albums while Nightwish definitely have them beat in the number of standout tracks, one of which Last Ride of the Day definitely is. God I love that chorus.

I kinda disagree, but maybe it’s just because I’m more of a Nightwish fan anyway. To me, Reign in Blood is incredibly consistent because every song is carved from the same intense and fast formula, yet once they slow down for South of Heaven and Seasons in the Abyss, that slower nature works against them in two ways: firstly, with each song having a similar formula yet being slower-paced, it’s easier to find them feel samey; and secondly, Tom Araya sounds like he’s reading and acting out lyrics where on Reign in Blood he was living and embodying them. The highs are still high though; songs like “South of Heaven”, “War Ensemble”, and “Seasons in the Abyss” are absolutely amazing. That last track even has one of my favorite solo sections, a rare moment where Kerry and Jeff actually created something magical instead of the usual chaotic noise as is typical of a Slayer solo.

You couldn't have been more wrong.

All I’m saying is that one of those songs is a metal classic that influenced both its own genre of thrash and the growing genres of extreme metal; and the other one is “Last Ride of the Day”. I feel like more artists wish they’d written the “South of Heaven” intro over the Nightwish chorus.

 

[KidInTheDark666]

I kinda disagree, but maybe it’s just because I’m more of a Nightwish fan anyway. To me, Reign in Blood is incredibly consistent because every song is carved from the same intense and fast formula, yet once they slow down for South of Heaven and Seasons in the Abyss, that slower nature works against them in two ways: firstly, with each song having a similar formula yet being slower-paced, it’s easier to find them feel samey; and secondly, Tom Araya sounds like he’s reading and acting out lyrics where on Reign in Blood he was living and embodying them.

Yeah, let's agree to disagree here, I think South and Seasons are prime Slayer in terms of consistent quality while a lot of RIB tends to blend together. That point about Tom and his delivery does make sense though.

 

[Wogmidget]

Back in Black is required listening by Australian law

Last Ride of the Day is really nothing special by Nightwish's standards, so South of Heaven wins by being merely quite good

Mirror Mirror triumphs in the foregonest of conclusions

I write this while reading Tony Iommi's book, but even that can't stop me adoring Russell Allen's glorious pipes.

Overkill song was more interesting

WASP kerbstomps the oh-so-90s Certified Controversial Industrial Metal Edgy Boi