The_7th_one
Ancient Mariner
Have you listened the demos?
Murder of Rue Morgue
They're never gonna find me!
Considering the probable rendition of that particular song, I agree.
And no, I'm not talking about anything related to Janick.
Ascendingthethrone
Ancient Mariner
I agree. I just can’t see them pulling it off nowadays. They would be better suited trying to do epics that suit Bruce’s older voice e.g. Paschendale, SOTC and Phantom.
Luisma
Years Wasted
Yes I have! And they do explain in part the story that's being discussed here. The SIT album as we know it took shape very late in the whole process and it was going to sound very different.
Luisma
Years Wasted
It
No, they weren't going on a more adventurous direction, I would say quite the contrary. It was going to sound as any other IM album. The demos I heard didn't feature so much guitar synths.
No, Rod didn't stop them, as a matter of fact, he was very, very worried about the band around this time... We have only been told part of the story, but if you delve deep enough in what has been said, you can understand a good part of what was happening at the time. I do tell this with more detail in my next book but what you have to consider is this. The band are artists and some artists in Maiden are more susceptible than others. Now imagine those persons being forced to create in a specific time table, then go on for months and months and months without end and then someone asking them to do more and more... What do you think happened to those susceptible hearts?
The record label wasn't informed about what was happening at the time with Maiden, Rod was very careful not to turn on alarms although I think that some people in EMI did knew but didn't say anything. After all, they only wanted another IM album and that was it...
No, they weren't going on a more adventurous direction, I would say quite the contrary. It was going to sound as any other IM album. The demos I heard didn't feature so much guitar synths.
No, Rod didn't stop them, as a matter of fact, he was very, very worried about the band around this time... We have only been told part of the story, but if you delve deep enough in what has been said, you can understand a good part of what was happening at the time. I do tell this with more detail in my next book but what you have to consider is this. The band are artists and some artists in Maiden are more susceptible than others. Now imagine those persons being forced to create in a specific time table, then go on for months and months and months without end and then someone asking them to do more and more... What do you think happened to those susceptible hearts?
The record label wasn't informed about what was happening at the time with Maiden, Rod was very careful not to turn on alarms although I think that some people in EMI did knew but didn't say anything. After all, they only wanted another IM album and that was it...
GhostofCain
Ancient Mariner
Thanks mate. 
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Thanks for the write up Luisma.
If I'm reading this correctly, the band did not want to release an album in 1986? They get pressured from EMI and they make a draft record that isn't a good enough follow up to Powerslave, then they change it and use best studio magic at the time to make it SciFi sounding in order to give it that "something special" a new Maiden album always had, up to that point?
Smith seems satisfied with the end product tho, because he picked it as one of his favourites (or his favourite) Maiden record in 2005 or so. His songs are probably true to his demos, which means it is the Harris songs that got overhauled. I always suspected that Harris doesn't like this period and this record, and that is the chief issue behind not ever playing ATG. Possibly he dumped the Dickinson track, to have enough runtime to rearrange and repolish his material. In the end the record wasn't universally acclaimed as TNOTB/PoM/PS so this decision might've been wrong.
Edit : just a note that I've read a french mag scan from 1986 with Dickinson interview, I don't speak French but I could recognize Dickinson is mentioning ATG as-is (8+ min track about an ancient warrior) and that he has a writing credit in the next sentence.
If I'm reading this correctly, the band did not want to release an album in 1986? They get pressured from EMI and they make a draft record that isn't a good enough follow up to Powerslave, then they change it and use best studio magic at the time to make it SciFi sounding in order to give it that "something special" a new Maiden album always had, up to that point?
Smith seems satisfied with the end product tho, because he picked it as one of his favourites (or his favourite) Maiden record in 2005 or so. His songs are probably true to his demos, which means it is the Harris songs that got overhauled. I always suspected that Harris doesn't like this period and this record, and that is the chief issue behind not ever playing ATG. Possibly he dumped the Dickinson track, to have enough runtime to rearrange and repolish his material. In the end the record wasn't universally acclaimed as TNOTB/PoM/PS so this decision might've been wrong.
Edit : just a note that I've read a french mag scan from 1986 with Dickinson interview, I don't speak French but I could recognize Dickinson is mentioning ATG as-is (8+ min track about an ancient warrior) and that he has a writing credit in the next sentence.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
I suspect Heaven Can Wait had a few mins added to it, as there had been talk of it being the lead single. No way they were intending to release a 7 and a half min track as the lead single in 1986.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Yes, a good suspect. The mid part is likely inserted in, and the song has the most uninspired Smith solo in the whole era.
I also wonder what was behind the information that band did not play in complete formation on the B-sides. There has been talk that Smith recorded bass on That Girl but that Harris sound is unmistakable.
I also wonder what was behind the information that band did not play in complete formation on the B-sides. There has been talk that Smith recorded bass on That Girl but that Harris sound is unmistakable.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
I know this is impossible, but imagine Harris dropped Book of Thel from SiT.
Yeah RSRD is most likely to be it. It would be even better if it had only the sharp agressive guitars of SiT but be not drowned in synths.
Yeah RSRD is most likely to be it. It would be even better if it had only the sharp agressive guitars of SiT but be not drowned in synths.
I'm guessing it wasn't until the band relocated to the Netherlands that the album's character really started to reveal itself. There's also an interview with Bruce during the making of SIT in which he describes a pretty different album than what ended up being released.
Harris' contributions are not that different than the Powerslave album. Similar riffing style, similar long instrumental sections, similar sorts of rhythms and vocal phrasing. It's really Adrian's contributions that show a real compositional difference. Adrian and Dave really carry that album. Adrian for his attention to sonic detail and songwriting, both for their excellent guitar playing throughout. I find Seventh Son to be a stronger album because Harris and Dickinson showed up more. Harris writes better material and is able to integrate the newer sound and synthesizers. Bruce actually writes and brings in some of the best work of his career along with an excellent vocal performance. The production compliments the music rather than serving as a crutch or a cover for weak writing/performances.
Harris' contributions are not that different than the Powerslave album. Similar riffing style, similar long instrumental sections, similar sorts of rhythms and vocal phrasing. It's really Adrian's contributions that show a real compositional difference. Adrian and Dave really carry that album. Adrian for his attention to sonic detail and songwriting, both for their excellent guitar playing throughout. I find Seventh Son to be a stronger album because Harris and Dickinson showed up more. Harris writes better material and is able to integrate the newer sound and synthesizers. Bruce actually writes and brings in some of the best work of his career along with an excellent vocal performance. The production compliments the music rather than serving as a crutch or a cover for weak writing/performances.
Murder of Rue Morgue
They're never gonna find me!
Book of Thel needs Roy Z’s guitar playing. Also, for riffs of that kind a drop tuning is essential, and there was no way Maiden would touch their tuners in 1986. This is even beyond impossible.
But what about Gates of Urizen?
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Luisma
Years Wasted
As always a pleasure to participate in what I consider a great discussion mate.
Your comments are somewhat correct, however I must add something else. The band almost DIDN'T release an album in 1986. Yes, they had the obligation to produce an album and they definitely struggled to do something new (which some people loved and some people hated).
In the end, the band (minus the obvious member) was satisfied with the end product. Adrian got the chance to express himself musically (something that he definitely needed). About Harris not liking this period I really couldn't say but the lack of material thru the years from this album does seem to indicate that.
Now, about ATG I think I have told this before, but here it goes again (and I think Nicko did tell this in a recent interview) ATG was rehearsed to be played on Somewhere On Tour and they didn't like it so they dropped it from the set. The whole "Adrian can't remember the solo" stuff is just a lame excuse. Another thing that I can tell is that ATG was one of the songs that I know was always present, what I don't know is if was shorter or longer, but it was slower.
Luisma
Years Wasted
I think that HCW was going to be edited to be released as a single and they actually did had the "single version" but didn't like it
Luisma
Years Wasted
Spot on! Mosh.
I would just add that Dickinson was able to express himself as an artist in the SSOSS and we all know that he is an AMAZING artist with a much broader musical taste and vision that Harris.
D
Deleted member 7164
Guest
Doubt it. Most possible candidate for AoB- era song that had genesis in the Maiden days would be Man of Sorrows.
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
Yeah, there's no way the middle section was a late insert since the chant was recorded at a local bar in Nassau, I believe.
Come to think of it, the chant already being done before they moved to Holland suggests that they might've actually had complete tracks ready by the time they left Nassau. Did they end up re-recording guitar parts or even vocals or something? It'd make sense with the general idea of the band wanting to make the album more special - re-record all the guitar parts with heavy effects on the guitars to make it sound a bit different.
srfc
Ancient Mariner
The chant was from locals in Tehe's bar in Amsterdam
Ruflux
Ancient Mariner
Really? Well, I guess in that case it's theoretically possible. I did always think the song flows much nicer if you just lop off the middle part and Adrian's pretty unremarkable solo and switch the ending of Davey's solo so it connects better with the harmonized guitar bit that comes after Adrian's solo.