The Genesis of Somewhere in Time

[____no5]

'Run Silent, Run Deep' was indeed recorded (vocals and all) for SIT, however, it didn't made the final cut for various reasons.

1. Didn't fit with the overall feeling of the album.
2. Once Martin & Steve did a first rough mix of the album, Harris wasn't happy so many songs were rearranged or cut, so that's another reason why 'Run Silent..." was cut of the final mix of the album.

Fantastic feedback Luisma, thanks! So just to recap: The SIT version had identical music with NPFTD or only into /chorus /outro were same?

@Zare is mostly right about what he says, this being, that the band aren't lyting about this era, however, one thing they have really omitted is how close to being with a singer they were.

I didn’t understand the meaning here..

 

[____no5]

I want to share my point of view:

Dozen + of same old lives but not for AMOLAD and so on - the AMOLAD tour was a must, but they can redeem themselves with Senjutsu. Six Renuion era albums<->Four live albums/concert vidoes (I'm sure Senjutsu will have too)... not bad for a new material. And Maiden are one of the bands with the most documented tours, so of course the same old classics will appear on every one of them.

Hi Kalata, I respect everything you say. For the quoted item though, I think Maiden should have released something. I mean, come on, it’s kind of self evident!

 

[Deleted member 7164]

I didn’t understand the meaning here..

What I think Luisma is implying is that Dickinson was distant to the band during the SiT recording. Almost with an one leg out of the band.

I believe it would be an ego blow to anyone. Everyone says his voice was integral for post Killers path but no-one mentions his material. He produced top tier songs and singles for all those albums. Run To The Hills, Flight of Icarus and Powerslave just to name one from every record. Powerslave as an album is his first career peak (and he often pulls it out as his favourite album), and the album cycle ends with Maiden on the top of the world.

Next cycle comes, burnout or not, his ideas are not accepted.
IMHO he was pretty pissed, regardless of whatever he says nowadays, about leaning back and just performing for the album.

 

[____no5]

What I think Luisma is implying is that Dickinson was distant to the band during the SiT recording. Almost with an one leg out of the band.

I believe it would be an ego blow to anyone. Everyone says his voice was integral for post Killers path but no-one mentions his material. He produced top tier songs and singles for all those albums. Run To The Hills, Flight of Icarus and Powerslave just to name one from every record. Powerslave as an album is his first career peak (and he often pulls it out as his favourite album), and the album cycle ends with Maiden on the top of the world.

Next cycle comes, burnout or not, his ideas are not accepted.
IMHO he was pretty pissed, regardless of whatever he says nowadays, about leaning back and just performing for the album.

Run To The Hills is a Harris song. I guess you ment Children of the Damned in which he allegedly contributed? Or he did for RTTH too?
Now that I think of it, those lyrics are quite Brucie.

 

[chaosapiant]

Run To The Hills is a Harris song. I guess you ment Children of the Damned in which he allegedly contributed? Or he did for RTTH too?
Now that I think of it, those lyrics are quite Brucie.

Bruce couldn’t legally have any writing credits for Number of the Beast, but it’s been strongly implied that Bruce helped write that song.

 

[____no5]

Next cycle comes, burnout or not, his ideas are not accepted.

To be fair Bruce is not very persistent; he gets passionate easily with new things then tries other etc. And Steve is stubborn and control freak as fuck, to stand a chance against him you need to have a clear and strong vision, when the other only had “ideas”.

We all saw what he was able to achieve without Steve, and what Steve was able to achieve without Bruce. But in the end Bruce was the one to come back.
And when I see Steve being credited for all but one songs from 2000 -2010, my best guess is that Bruce didn’t negotiate his coming back hard enough.

Spoiler: no.1

I was careful to mention equal times (4) Bruce & Steve, just because I could

Spoiler: no.2 (the new)

I just had a déjà vu.

Spoiler: no.3

65% of the people reading this have counted the names Bruce and Steve

 

[srfc]

Bruce couldn’t legally have any writing credits for Number of the Beast, but it’s been strongly implied that Bruce helped write that song.

It's been outright stated by Bruce a few times

He's even explained the music theory on the vocal melody

 

[Kalata]

Run To The Hills is a Harris song. I guess you ment Children of the Damned in which he allegedly contributed? Or he did for RTTH too?

RTTH, COTD and The Prisoner.

We all saw what he was able to achieve without Steve, and what Steve was able to achieve without Bruce. But in the end Bruce was the one to come back.
And when I see Steve being credited for all but one songs from 2000 -2010, my best guess is that Bruce didn’t negotiate his coming back hard enough.

Steve has always been the band's main songwriter (check the 80's albums). Then after that and especially after the reunion, the situation is different.

I think Steve was right rejecting Bruce's more acoustic material for the SIT album - it was not right for Maiden at the time and you can't change the band that much. But not only Steve, nobody in the band wanted to make more acoustic stuff at the time, iirc. Yeah, it would have been only 1 song, but let's not forget that Maiden started writing more acoustic oriented songs after the 90's and they have only one fully acoustic song in their discography. If ''Run Silent Run Deep'' was in the version from the NPFTD album, maybe the outcome would have been different.

 

[____no5]

RTTH, COTD and The Prisoner.

Thanks! I didn’t know about The Prisoner, great stuff.

I think Steve was right rejecting Bruce's more acoustic material for the SIT album - it was not right for Maiden at the time and you can't change the band that much. But not only Steve, nobody in the band wanted to make more acoustic stuff at the time, iirc.

I agree. It was a bold idea, even way ahead of its time, but yes, conditions were not mature. They could have done an EP or something though.

Yeah, it would have been only 1 song, but let's not forget that Maiden started writing more acoustic oriented songs after the 90's and they have only one fully acoustic song in their discography. If ''Run Silent Run Deep'' was in the version from the NPFTD album, maybe the outcome would have been different.

I’m almost sure that music was not exactly the same as in NPFTD.
Waiting for @Luisma to confirm.

 

[GhostofCain]

Run To The Hills is a Harris song. I guess you ment Children of the Damned in which he allegedly contributed? Or he did for RTTH too?
Now that I think of it, those lyrics are quite Brucie.

Bruce co-wrote Children of the Damned, The Prisoner, Run to the Hills and Gangland.

 

[chaosapiant]

It's been outright stated by Bruce a few times

He's even explained the music theory on the vocal melody

I thought it had and couldn’t remember. But I do remember Bruce alluding to it in one of those books. Run to the Hills maybe? I can’t remember.

 

[srfc]

I thought it had and couldn’t remember. But I do remember Bruce alluding to it in one of those books. Run to the Hills maybe? I can’t remember.

Yep I think he says something like he has a "moral contribution" to a few of those songs. He only outright stated it more recently.

 

[chaosapiant]

Yep I think he says something like he has a "moral contribution" to a few of those songs. He only outright stated it more recently.

Moral contribution!! That’s the term I read, thank you! I thought I had read later where he outright said he’d helped co-wrote those songs. Thank you!

 

[Christopher Baines]

Must have been gutted at the time he couldn't getting writing credits especially for RTTH, probably the most played Maiden song on radio. Missing out a few royalties there. I'm sure he doesn't need the money these days though.

 

[GhostofCain]

Yep I think he says something like he has a "moral contribution" to a few of those songs. He only outright stated it more recently.

That comment was made in an interview with the Bruce Dickinson Well-Being Network back in 1996. There’s no way Iron Maiden’s hagiography would have included that information.

 

[chaosapiant]

Must have been gutted at the time he couldn't getting writing credits especially for RTTH, probably the most played Maiden song on radio. Missing out a few royalties there. I'm sure he doesn't need the money these days though.

Possibly only later, since pretty sure they didn’t realize or plan on Number of the Beast being a smash commercial success and for Bruce to join a band like Maiden when he did, it was a step up in every way. But who knows!!

 

[Ruflux]

That comment was made in an interview with the Bruce Dickinson Well-Being Network back in 1996. There’s no way Iron Maiden’s hagiography would have included that information.

It's definitely in the official thingamabob since that's where I know the quote from. Mine's an edition from the reunion era, however, so it's possible it might've been inserted later. I kinda doubt it tho as I believe it's in the section that's all about The Number of the Beast and it's pretty obvious all the post-release additions where just inserted at the end - some of the other bits have rather "final" quotes about Bruce and Adrian's tenures in the band.

 

[GhostofCain]

It's definitely in the official thingamabob since that's where I know the quote from. Mine's an edition from the reunion era, however, so it's possible it might've been inserted later. I kinda doubt it tho as I believe it's in the section that's all about The Number of the Beast and it's pretty obvious all the post-release additions where just inserted at the end - some of the other bits have rather "final" quotes about Bruce and Adrian's tenures in the band.

Really? I have all editions of the book and cannot remember it being there. I will try and see if I can find a reference to Bruce having co-written those four songs when discussing The Number of the Beast. I do not think any of the first edition chapters were edited when they updated the book after Bruce and Adrian’s return.

The post-reunion editions are really funny to read, as they go from praising Virtual XI as a return to form to Bruce and Adrian being back rather abruptly.

 

[Christopher Baines]

Ive heard him talk about it in many interviews. Sure its on the making of TNOTB too. He defo was involved in some capacity in writting RTTH and The Prisoner at least

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Run To The Hills is a Harris song.

Ive heard him talk about it in many interviews. Sure its on the making of TNOTB too. He defo was involved in some capacity in writting RTTH and The Prisoner at least

While he was out of Maiden, he did not play Maiden covers, he played his songs.

Prisoner, Run To The Hills, Flight of Icarus, 2 Minutes To Midnight, Powerslave.

Woe to you, oh earth and sea
For the Devil sends the beast with wrath
Because he knows the time is short
Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast
For this number is called,
Powerslave.

Btw,
Samson was on RCA, Maiden was on EMI.

Dickinson was contractually obliged to write stuff for Samson for another album or inside some near future period. Companies can't force artists to have a writing credit or actually write - if you really don't want to work you can release a cover album or best of as a way to get around obligations - which Dickinson did with 2002 Best Of I do believe. But they could legally bar him from writing/credits on some other contract.

Just like when a company A hooks on non-competence clausule, they actually need to pay you to not work at the competition B and you don't have to work for A; any force here is in essence slavery. In music bussiness the paycheck went in advance - period of 3 albums let's say, and although you're out of the band you can't write for a competing band/label because you have been already been paid not to. So you wait.

However, in next two records, Maiden gets some firsts regarding credits and Dickinson - first sole credits that aren't Harris. So I'm pretty much sure that he didn't have to chase fairness, maybe he doesn't receive royalties from 1982 song, but that songwriting made Harris confident so he gave him space for solo pens (an a hefty chunk of credits) in next two platinum records.