A
The Contridiction of (militant) Atheism
- Thread starter IronDuke
- Start date
XoRRoX
Invader
Oh...i agree Perun...or... 
But back to the serious - i agree with you mostly. I'm my self been confirmed, but not mainly because i'm Christianity. My dad told to me, that it was a good idea to be confirmed - even if you were atheist or not. Because of the teachings about being freindly to each other. That's the healthly thing i religion, as Conoer says.
My littlebrother has just begun in school. But i can see where it will end - the childen are kicking at each other, and don't show the human respect, that we all deserve. They could use some morale education.
The point in this were only, that actually isen't that bad, as we are saying in general. I have that opinion, that religion is more about morale than the religion itself.
(Maybe it's time to say, that i was confirmed because of the gifts? )
But back to the serious - i agree with you mostly. I'm my self been confirmed, but not mainly because i'm Christianity. My dad told to me, that it was a good idea to be confirmed - even if you were atheist or not. Because of the teachings about being freindly to each other. That's the healthly thing i religion, as Conoer says.
My littlebrother has just begun in school. But i can see where it will end - the childen are kicking at each other, and don't show the human respect, that we all deserve. They could use some morale education.
The point in this were only, that actually isen't that bad, as we are saying in general. I have that opinion, that religion is more about morale than the religion itself.
(Maybe it's time to say, that i was confirmed because of the gifts?
)
A
Anonymous
Guest
Onhell said:
I know lots of people like that. In fact, I have been asked by several people why I never got confirmed, since you get so much money and so many gifts...
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
Unfortunately Perun I know many like that too. Also people that only get confirmed to be able to have their stupid fairytale church wedding and no other reason, they don't care, they don't take it seriously and they just want the gifts and money.... I'll stop here because I'm getting angry just thinking of it.
Anomica
Trooper
Being Swedish, I was brought up according to the Lutheran "path" of Prothestantism and was indeed confirmed when I was 14. Not because I wanted to or had a very strong faith, but because it was the "thing to do" at the time. (As a side note, I didn't get a lot of gifts, either 
) As an adult, I've become convinced that there well may be forces controlling us - call it good/evil, yin/yang, God/Satan - but I define myself as an agnostic, not a religious man.
Many atrocious acts are being committed in the name of religion today, and it's been that way almost all through human history, but it's not religion in itself that is at fault (whether it's organised, institutionalised or anything else). It's the interpretation of someone, often charismatic and able to communicate his/her interpretation to the masses, convincing them that this is the way we must go. Kill the infidels!
If you read the Qur'ān or the Bible, the message is very much one of "peace and good will towards man" and not to kill all that believe differently from you. In certain cultures, where illiteracy today is more common than in the Westen world, (just like during the crusades in the Western world) only a select few actually can read the religious texts, interpret them and communicate this to the masses. If these few people have agendas of their own, a movement may well start. On another note, when very poor cultures become aware of the abundance other cultures live in, it's not really surprising that the seeds sown by religious leaders falls to fertile soil.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this ranting, but to me all fanaticism means danger, be it religious fanatics or anti-religious fanatics or atheist fanatics (or right wing/left wing fanatics and so on...) I have a right to form my own opinions but I must respect the other's right to do the same. I'm always happy to take part in discussions, but only if my views are being respected. If someone here is religious and wants to try to convince me that I really would benefit from the same, go ahead and start, but don't get mad at me if it doesn't work. On the other hand, you'll never hear me slag you off for having faith either...
) As an adult, I've become convinced that there well may be forces controlling us - call it good/evil, yin/yang, God/Satan - but I define myself as an agnostic, not a religious man. Many atrocious acts are being committed in the name of religion today, and it's been that way almost all through human history, but it's not religion in itself that is at fault (whether it's organised, institutionalised or anything else). It's the interpretation of someone, often charismatic and able to communicate his/her interpretation to the masses, convincing them that this is the way we must go. Kill the infidels!
If you read the Qur'ān or the Bible, the message is very much one of "peace and good will towards man" and not to kill all that believe differently from you. In certain cultures, where illiteracy today is more common than in the Westen world, (just like during the crusades in the Western world) only a select few actually can read the religious texts, interpret them and communicate this to the masses. If these few people have agendas of their own, a movement may well start. On another note, when very poor cultures become aware of the abundance other cultures live in, it's not really surprising that the seeds sown by religious leaders falls to fertile soil.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this ranting, but to me all fanaticism means danger, be it religious fanatics or anti-religious fanatics or atheist fanatics (or right wing/left wing fanatics and so on...) I have a right to form my own opinions but I must respect the other's right to do the same. I'm always happy to take part in discussions, but only if my views are being respected. If someone here is religious and wants to try to convince me that I really would benefit from the same, go ahead and start, but don't get mad at me if it doesn't work. On the other hand, you'll never hear me slag you off for having faith either...
JackKnife
A Vivid example of masculine pulchritude
This topic is very interesting and there is some sort of sulphur smell around (smack of heresy? ^_^). May I say that I'm definitely non interested by any religion? I wasn't brought up in a religious family and I don't care at all. I like reading things about history, cultures of different part of the world etc therefore religion is something that matters since it affected humanity since the beginning but I’m (absolutely) not a mystic guy. I’ve nothing against the ones who trust in God (or Gods) provided they don’t want to turn me into one of them. In the past I had several arguments with groups like Jéhova’s Witnesses for instance. It didn’t bring me the light nor did it bring anything but a lost of time.
This post does not add much to the discussion but I think that many people are like me.
This post does not add much to the discussion but I think that many people are like me.
A
Anonymous
Guest
Could this be one of the reasons why the world is the way it is?JackKnife said:
Forostar
Ancient Mariner
The word atheist is hardly used where I come from (Holland). The word sounds very oldfashioned and even rediculous in my ears (sorry, can't help it).
A quick look on these statistics might explain:
----------
Religion
According to the governmental statistics agency (CBS) 30% of the population consider themselves to be Roman Catholic, 20% Protestant (predominantly Dutch Reformed) and 8% 'other denominations'. 42% consider themselves unaffiliated. Church attendance however is much lower than these figures may suggest: some 70% of the population 'rarely or never' visit a house of worship (be it a church, mosque, synagogue or temple), and even then it is mostly for occasions like weddings and baptisms. Most Protestants live in the northern provinces while the southern provinces, Noord-Brabant and Limburg, are mainly Roman Catholic, along with some regions in the east of the country like Twente in Overijssel.
The largest part of the 'other denominations', at 920,000, are Muslim immigrants mainly living in the bigger cities, mostly from Morocco and Turkey, and their descendants. The other denominations also include some 200,000 Hindus (1.3% of the population), mostly descendants of indentured servants who migrated from India to the former Dutch colony of Surinam around 1900.
During the Nazi occupation in World War II about 100,000 out of 140,000 Dutch Jews were murdered in extermination camps. The Jewish population of the Netherlands today is estimated at between 30,000 and 40,000. They are mostly Liberal in practice, rather than Orthodox.
See also: History of the Jews in the Netherlands - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... etherlands
-----------------------
To answer this question:
"So, why are people so angry at religion?"
Because of A: the huge development of fundamentalism and the terror coming from that and B: Because of conservative dogma's, a lot of people don't (want to) see the positive things of religion anymore.
A quick look on these statistics might explain:
----------
Religion
According to the governmental statistics agency (CBS) 30% of the population consider themselves to be Roman Catholic, 20% Protestant (predominantly Dutch Reformed) and 8% 'other denominations'. 42% consider themselves unaffiliated. Church attendance however is much lower than these figures may suggest: some 70% of the population 'rarely or never' visit a house of worship (be it a church, mosque, synagogue or temple), and even then it is mostly for occasions like weddings and baptisms. Most Protestants live in the northern provinces while the southern provinces, Noord-Brabant and Limburg, are mainly Roman Catholic, along with some regions in the east of the country like Twente in Overijssel.
The largest part of the 'other denominations', at 920,000, are Muslim immigrants mainly living in the bigger cities, mostly from Morocco and Turkey, and their descendants. The other denominations also include some 200,000 Hindus (1.3% of the population), mostly descendants of indentured servants who migrated from India to the former Dutch colony of Surinam around 1900.
During the Nazi occupation in World War II about 100,000 out of 140,000 Dutch Jews were murdered in extermination camps. The Jewish population of the Netherlands today is estimated at between 30,000 and 40,000. They are mostly Liberal in practice, rather than Orthodox.
See also: History of the Jews in the Netherlands - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of ... etherlands
-----------------------
To answer this question:
"So, why are people so angry at religion?"
Because of A: the huge development of fundamentalism and the terror coming from that and B: Because of conservative dogma's, a lot of people don't (want to) see the positive things of religion anymore.
Onhell
Infinite Dreamer
JackKnife said:
Does that mean you are canceling your subscription to our three tape series "'Arry For beginners?"
All jokes aside. @ Forostar, interesting post. I also heard that in many European countries people don't consider themselves "religious" even if they are affiliated to a church and many don't go to church because as long as they are affiliated the government taxes them and distributes it to the church they are affiliated with, in other words no need to attend and give the money in person, even though that is not the true purpose of attending church, IMO.
Many have argued that the new rise in fundamentalism/radicalism is a direct response to people's apathy towards religion and to a lesser extent atheism. Sort of like, "if you are not going to listen to me I'm going to make you listen, even if it means blowing up a bus."
Anomica
Trooper
Onhell said:
One of many downsides of a state religion...we had that in Sweden until a few years ago, but if I want to stop paying taxes to the Swedish church, I have to make an active decision to leave the church. In short, we don't choose which faith we confess to, but when to leave
A
Anonymous
Guest
Like "Antigonish" in... Nova Scotia? ^_^
Pineapple Hunter
Trooper
Britain is a bit out-there on the name front too.
"Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyllllantysiliogogogoch" is a place in North Wales, which translates as something silly. I'll remember it in a little while.
"Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwyllllantysiliogogogoch" is a place in North Wales, which translates as something silly. I'll remember it in a little while.