the biggest mistake in metal history

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[!--QuoteBegin-Maverick+Jun 10 2005, 08:03 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Maverick @ Jun 10 2005, 08:03 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]And rightly so! Anyone who doesn't speak French should be shot. Let's start with the Quebecois and torture them so they die in agony for ignoring such a beautiful language!  [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
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You, of all the people here, should know that French uses more anglicism than quebecois [!--emo&B)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'cool.gif\' /][!--endemo--] so I say let's kill the French because they don't seem to realize how great their language is. [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]

[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 11 2005, 01:52 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 11 2005, 01:52 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]You're cutting away 11 great albums because there was a change.
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Only fools doesn't changes their minds
 
[!--QuoteBegin-damage_done+Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(damage_done @ Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]paul looking and sounding punk was what made Maiden great in the early 80s.
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Yes they were great. But I beg your pardon - it was not punk that made them great. It was Harris/Murray/Burr/Di'Anno and later Smith.

[!--QuoteBegin-damage_done+Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(damage_done @ Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]why bother wasting time screaming at the audience and fighting a big fake zombie when you should be giving the audience what they paid for- the music? 
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Have you ever been to a Maiden show? I guess not.

[!--QuoteBegin-damage_done+Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(damage_done @ Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]btw, blaze was the guy who was hired and fired in the 90s right?  i never heard the music he did with maiden but from what i hear those albums nearly put the band six feet under. 
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Here I agree with
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 11 2005, 02:52 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 11 2005, 02:52 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]
And the addition of Blaze to Iron Maiden is what saved the band, rather than sinking it.  If they had've tried to continue with Bruce, it's likely that Steve would have quit.
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[!--QuoteBegin-damage_done+Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(damage_done @ Jun 11 2005, 12:38 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]i just think their music would have been much better if they had kept their punk vocalist.
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Like the Dead Kennedys or Pistols? Punk bands nowadays are either split or repeat the same formula. Or did you mean something like Offspring? [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Battlemaniacs+Jun 11 2005, 02:12 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Battlemaniacs @ Jun 11 2005, 02:12 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]You, of all the people here, should know that French uses more anglicism than quebecois [!--emo&B)--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/cool.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'cool.gif\' /][!--endemo--] so I say let's kill the French because they don't seem to realize how great their language is. [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
Only fools doesn't changes their minds
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if my memory serves me right, the french invaded england and I've heard more latinajos in English than anglicism in any romance language.... But when to cultures collide everything is traded even language (i.e Castilian after coming into contact with Arabic for 700 years).
 
Maiden sounds nothing like Hair/Glam Metal, Like people said, You are entitled to feel this way, But I think you never heard Hair Metal... Hair Metal is Ratt, Poison, Twisted Sister, Cinderella & Skid Row, Maiden sound nothing like any of these, And while Wasted Years was more commercial sounding, It still was very maidny and sounds nothing like 80's metal.
 
the important thing to note is that on the early days dvd, and in his auto biography, paul himself admits that bruce is the best singer maiden every had or will have. paul was good, but with all the coke he was taking at the time, he was loosing his voice - and what good is a singer who has no voice? none at all! its 22 years on and bruce's voice gets stronger every day!

taffy
 
[!--QuoteBegin--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]oh and so what if paul did drugs?  in the metal business, who hasn't?

Steve Harris
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What about the other band members? Nicko, H, Davey, Janick, Clive.... Did they ever do drugs?
 
clive did. thats why he was kicked out, although he was given a chance to clean up first but he didn't take it. My run to the hills biography is in my other house at the mo, so I can't quote what is said, but as soon as I get back, I'll post it for you.

as for the others, I think they were clean, but don't quote me on it.
 
I know that now every member of the band is clean. But I'm pretty sure that the rest of them lived the "rock and roll lifestyle".
 
there again, steve and rod didn't tolerate stuff like that did they - ie paul and clive. they probably used pot and stuff but i don't think they went much heavier than that, although i reckon they probably drunk enough to float and entire navy!
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Taffy+Jun 11 2005, 02:25 PM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Taffy @ Jun 11 2005, 02:25 PM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]although i reckon they probably drunk enough to float and entire navy!
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They still are [!--emo&:P--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/tongue.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'tongue.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
But beer is good for your social health [!--emo&:chug:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/beerchug.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'beerchug.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Paul Di'Anno is just a shadow of himself...why does he do this black metal thing in the maiden songs? like wrooaach [!--emo&:huh:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/huh.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'huh.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
why argue all this? the fact is, that bruce dickinson is waaay better than paul and kicks a$$

bruce has a killer solo career & still rocks out w/ maiden...
what does paul do now? pretty sure its not anything near what bruce does
 
[!--QuoteBegin-7thSon_ofa_7thSon+Jun 12 2005, 01:24 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(7thSon_ofa_7thSon @ Jun 12 2005, 01:24 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]why argue all this? the fact is, that bruce dickinson is waaay better than paul and kicks a$$

bruce has a killer solo career & still rocks out w/ maiden...
what does paul do now? pretty sure its not anything near what bruce does
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paul still does solo stuff but nothing that most people care about, and most certainly not to the point where most people on this site will sit and discuss the intricacies of it
 
[!--QuoteBegin-Nobby+Jun 11 2005, 07:07 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(Nobby @ Jun 11 2005, 07:07 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]Maiden sounds nothing like Hair/Glam Metal, Like people said, You are entitled to feel this way, But I think you never heard Hair Metal... Hair Metal is Ratt, Poison, Twisted Sister, Cinderella & Skid Row, Maiden sound nothing like any of these, And while Wasted Years was more commercial sounding, It still was very maidny and sounds nothing like 80's metal.
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They are good bands, though. Ratt rules. [!--emo&:rock:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/headbang.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'headbang.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
my point is that the attitude and songwriting changed drastically. in the early days maiden was almost like a british thrash band, very few other NWOBHM bands played as fast and technical as they did. sure there was motorhead, another band that bridged metal and punk, but who else was there?

and most of the big four thrash bands (metallica, megadeth, anthrax, slayer) cite the first two maiden albums as their overall best, and those bands have some really talented musicians in them. i don't see how maiden became more intelligent when paul left, there's nothing about wasted years, run to the hills, the wicker man, or number of the beast that screams intelligence.

sure they did some good songs with bruce like 2 minutes to midnight and the trooper, but overall there's not much of an edge to them, not like the songs of the early albums. just compare killers to somewhere in time. not only is the production heavier and thicker, thus making it sound much better by today's standards, but the songwriting, basslines, solos, drumming, etc. are much sharper.
 
Of course the attitude changed and became different. With a new vocalist, Steve (as the chief song writer) was able to write songs for a new range.

If you like thrash and punk, yes, you'll enjoy the first two albums more than the latter outings. However, there's tons of other bands who cite later albums among their favourites. So I don't think that judging by the tastes of some other great musicians is a good tool for measuring.

While I disagree to the "edge" comment - since I think that musically, Killers sounds very similar to The Number of the Beast (albums, not songs), especially in guitar work, I fail to see how you can't see the increased intelligence in latter works like the ones you listed. Of course, you listed only fast tracks. Consider latter epics, like Hallowed Be Thy Name, To Tame A Land, Rime of the Ancient Mariner, Alexander the Great, Seventh Son of a Seventh Son, Mother Russia, Fear of the Dark, Sign of the Cross, The Clansman, The Nomad, and Paschendale. There's absolutely nothing from 1980-81 that compares to any of those songs.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-LooseCannon+Jun 13 2005, 03:58 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(LooseCannon @ Jun 13 2005, 03:58 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]There's absolutely nothing from 1980-81 that compares to any of those songs.
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Yes, and one more point: there's something called progress, that good bands are capable of. If you listen to songs like Sanctuary, Purgatory and, let's say, Prisoner and so on, you can clearly see the evolution.
As for the intellectual thing, o.k., Maiden keep their niveau. But for me, when a Maiden song starts, no matter which album, there's a smile on my face and a good feeling. I thing music should above all be about emotion. And Maiden is.
 
[!--QuoteBegin-damage_done+Jun 10 2005, 01:18 AM--][div class=\'quotetop\']QUOTE(damage_done @ Jun 10 2005, 01:18 AM)[/div][div class=\'quotemain\'][!--QuoteEBegin--]sorry if this offends anyone, the first two maiden albums are still two of my all time favorites, but i just find it so hard to believe that a band wasted an opportunity to be one of the most original and hardest rocking bands on the planet.
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What's wrong then, that's exactly what they are now. [!--emo&:rolleyes:--][img src=\'style_emoticons/[#EMO_DIR#]/rolleyes.gif\' border=\'0\' style=\'vertical-align:middle\' alt=\'rolleyes.gif\' /][!--endemo--]
 
Bruce and Paul are both great singers but Bruce has tha screaming woice and Pual has that more punky voice, i do not think that Paul would do such a great job on NOB for example..............but they are still both two GREAT singers
 
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