Symphony X

[Forostar]

Gotta love the steadiness of their line-up. No changes this century.

 

[Diesel 11]

0 live releases

There’s Live on the Edge of Forever, but it’s from 2001, so you’re basically still correct.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

Ok, but I was about the videos. That's why I mention Romeo being a guitar hero, there's more professional footage of him demonstrating the songs, than live footage itself.

 

[Diesel 11]

Ah, gotcha.

 

[Mosh]

I remember @Night Prowler telling me that they don’t want to do a live video until they can do it with an orchestra. Cool idea, but they probably could’ve done that by now. Again, the period around Odyssey and Paradise Lost would’ve been awesome for that. If Septicflesh can afford to have an orchestra on every album, Symphony X can figure out how to put together an orchestra for a one off.

That live album is also really not good, which doesn’t help things.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

There’s Live on the Edge of Forever, but it’s from 2001, so you’re basically still correct.

It also hilariously does not feature the song The Edge of Forever.

That live album is also really not good, which doesn’t help things.

I don’t think it’s horrible; it’s just a little rough around the edges. Remember that the band had only begun (briefly) touring after Twilight in Olympus, and this album was just after V. They had just gotten Lepond, and I liked how he threw a bunch of fills into the songs that weren’t there before. Russell also sounded great, but I’ll admit that it’s been a while since I’ve listened to it.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Overall I’ve been discovering that Symphony X is both a much better album than I thought at first... and also more frustrating at the same token.

Same. I'm coming to enjoy it more due to this in-depth analysis, but I'm simultaneously far more annoyed with it.

I don't know as anyone as lazy as them. They have a guitar hero in their ranks and 0 live releases. Also there are no special releases, covers, instumental mixes, etc.

They are so incredibly lazy that it's sad. I know that putting live DVDs costs money, but shit, if much, much smaller bands (like Seventh Wonder) can make a live DVD, so can Symphony X. It's a real shame. I literally don't understand what they do with their time.

That live album is also really not good, which doesn’t help things.

It also hilariously does not feature the song The Edge of Forever.

More evidence for their insane laziness. Bad production + not the best show for everyone + a stupid title.

 

[Diesel 11]

More evidence for their insane laziness. Bad production + not the best show for everyone + a stupid title.

I have yet to listen through the album but the setlist just looks weird. If they were going to play so much of V already why the hell did they stop with “The Death of Balance”? It’s just a weird termination point and there’s no good finale to it. They should’ve either done the whole album or just made a more varied set from the get-go.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

I have yet to listen through the album but the setlist just looks weird. If they were going to play so much of V already why the hell did they stop with “The Death of Balance”? It’s just a weird termination point and there’s no good finale to it. They should’ve either done the whole album or just made a more varied set from the get-go.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. It's honestly a fun album and we should listen to it, but I'd say it's like...Beast Over Hammersmith or Nights of The Living Dead in terms of quality: i.e. it feels like an afterthought.

The setlist is definitely weird. It is cool to hear them tackle a lot of V material, though.

 

[Mosh]

I don't think the album is terrible, but like y'all said it's rough around the edges, the performance is a little flat, and there's nothing there to make me go back to it.

The setlist is fine imo. As DB said, this was their first time really touring and it's also their first live album. It makes sense to have more variety than just playing the latest album in its entirety. I actually like how they rearranged the instrumental segues to play live as a band rather than just play them through the PA as most bands would do. Besides, they manage to hit most of the V highlights. The only thing I would actually change is replace Eyes of Medusa with something from Damnation Game (obviously Edge of Forever). Otherwise I like that they hit the highlights from the last three albums.

It also hilariously does not feature the song The Edge of Forever.

I would say this is a head scratching oversight, but this is an Iron Maiden forum and we should be used to that sort of silliness.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Thorns of Sorrow

LYRICS:

Spoiler

Beckoning me through aeons of time
Captured by you in dismay
I try to elude these prisons of flesh
But return to shattered domain

PRE-CHORUS:
There's no image in the mirror
Shattered glass impales my soul

CHORUS:
She's like thorns of sorrow, ripping through my head
She's like thorns of sorrow, visions turning red

Enchanting me, defying my love
I'm hindered with penance and pain
False reflection of grandeur and light
Leaves my heart bleeding and stained

PRE-CHORUS
CHORUS x2

[Guitar and Keyboard Solos]

CHORUS x2

• I don't have a lot to say about this song: it's actually pretty good. The riffs are not amazing, but it all works and is really punchy (or, as punchy as possible with the production).
• The incredibly dramatic intro and subsequent break into the running double bass verse riff (and the insane full band neoclassical fill before the singing starts) is absolutely awesome. It feels a lot like an Odyssey-era song.
• Rod is Rod. Shrug. But the vocal melodies all make a certain sense. They're a little stock, but they actually all fit really well for the first time on the album. This a song the band should have remade with Russell, not Masquerade. There's even a full band vocal break before the second pre-chorus where he could do a bluesy run a la Wicked!
• The transition into the solos is pure Symphony X. Romeo's first solo lick will also be used another 5,000 times in the future. We get our first taste of a good guitar/keyboard duel (even if Pinnella's solo chops are still not up to snuff....they'll get there).
• This song does not overstay its welcome, but I'd actually be fine if it did.

 

[Deleted member 7164]

They are so incredibly lazy that it's sad. I know that putting live DVDs costs money, but shit, if much, much smaller bands (like Seventh Wonder) can make a live DVD, so can Symphony X. It's a real shame.

I remember hearing from Romeo about investment into orchestration audio plugin. As in 2010 or even more recent. So now the band bought the plugin and the orchestration will sound better. Yes it sounded synthy but I thought that's "intentional" because they don't want layers and details they can't deliver live. It is not about economics, morality or theft but about the drive to deliver something. If it were my band I'd pirate the damn plugin and think about repaying it later.

The Bloodstock footage is the best one in years. They didn't even mix their sound in and put it on the Youtube, like an official bootleg.

Who knows what kind of a contract they have, though. Maybe they don't want to invest private money or time.

 

[Mosh]

I don't know about their current label, but at one point they were on the best label possible for prog: InsideOut. That label will typically get behind bands that want to do large scale things for concerts like orchestras. Devin Townsend is on the label and does a giant concert every few years with a choir and huge production (last one even had an orchestra). Some of it comes out of his own pocket, but he manages to justify it probably because he believes in what he's doing more than SX does.

 

[Diesel 11]

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. It's honestly a fun album and we should listen to it, but I'd say it's like...Beast Over Hammersmith or Nights of The Living Dead in terms of quality: i.e. it feels like an afterthought.

The setlist is definitely weird. It is cool to hear them tackle a lot of V material, though.

I’m definitely looking forward to spinning it for the DDD. Holding out till we pass through V and touch on it to give it a spin.

 

[Diesel 11]

Jesus Christ, I completely forgot that "Thorns of Sorrow" existed, too. Listening through it again illuminates me as to why that was. The song is just in-and-out faster than the majority of the songs on here.

Due to the way Pinnella's keys sound in this song, the overall vibe I get is that of a cathedral, which is a comment I've already used before on this album. The song launches really quickly, understandably so because "Rapture of Pain" got cut off at the outro to make it work. I dig the riff Romeo's playing but the synths are making it sound like typical power metal so... eh?

"Rod is Rod." ~MrKnickerbocker (2021).

"Shattered glass"? Like... stained glass? No wonder I'm getting those cathedral vibes. Keep looking to the skies. The truth is out there.

I did this chorus quite a lot, it's pretty memorable. As soon as I saw the title it was instantly in my head again, so the song isn't quite as unmemorable as I thought. Holy shit, the bridge is wild. It sounds like the kinda thing Collin keeps telling me he experiences when he listens to Tool. The instrumental works but isn't very memorable. Pinnella is absolutely buried in the mix during it.

This song as a whole is just so fast that it fails to leave a lasting impact. Just in and out. Sounds like the band just wanted to be done with it quick instead of giving it time to simmer. Already over before it's even begun.

 

[Detective Beauregard]

Thorns of Sorrow is a stereotypical uptempo Symphony X affair, and the best of its kind to this point (since Taunting the Notorious is simply bad). In fact, this is easily one of the better tracks on the album. It has a drive to it that most of the other tracks lack, Rod is at his least annoying here, and there aren't really any weak parts.

• The intro is pretty cool. There's Casio harpsichord cheese, but it all fits together nicely and sets up the following riff well.
• Pretty typical Romeo fast riff, but it's decent. It's also neat to hear Miller double Romeo on most of the fills. Pinnella also doubling what Romeo is doing may be kind of lazy, but it sounds surprisingly good here.
• The vocal in the verse is solid, and Rod sounds passable here. The music is boring, though.
• While the line "shattered glass impales my soul" sounds like it was written by a third grader, this brief pre-chorus is not too bad.
• The chorus is surprisingly catchy, although Symphony X singing about women is simply weird. There's a neat bass groove here that is pretty atypical for them.
• For some reason, I don't want to strangle Rod in the Queen-ish bridge. Thankfully it's a quick section.
• I think this may be the first proper guitar/keyboard solo duel on the album, although it's pretty average. The guitar solos are decent, while the keyboard solos are... fine. The whole section really suffers from a lack of modulation between solos - something that the band obviously realized with The Divine Wings of Tragedy. It's nice to have catchy solos, but I'm of the belief that the music underneath should be just as interesting, and it isn't here.
• For once, the "outro" fits the song well. Some tacked-on 10-second acoustic ending would have been inappropriate, but a full-fledged ending would have been too much.

Thorns of Sorrow's Russell Factor: This should have been the song they remade for Prelude to the Millennium. Russell's voice was made for this song. Absinthe and Rue also would have sounded great with Russ, but that's a more complex song (and I don't see Symphony X having the ambition to commit to that).

This track is surprisingly not bad for this album, and it's strange that it's buried near the end. Perhaps to give the listener one last burst of metal before the progressive closer? Either way, there's nothing to really dislike about this song. It's brief - too brief, honestly - and would have benefitted from more instrumental meat to it.

Holy shit, the bridge is wild. It sounds like the kinda thing Collin keeps telling me he experiences when he listens to Tool.

 

[Spambot]

Taunting the Notorious

Now this beginning is much more my lane (except that short underwater doodling at very beginning). Pretty straight-forward rocking track, even the chorus is OK and I'm glad there are no back vocals in this one. Obviously Romero knows his guitar scales which can be seen in bits and pieces throughout the song. Funnily, most interesting guitar part is when he slows down, around 2:10 mark (resembles to something Maiden-ish even). Oh, and those short bass interludes - more of that please.

And I've got to comment at that fade-out outro: What the hell is that? That's like n-th time they used it on this album. Did they got it from their grandmas for Christmas so they feel obliged to use it?

Rapture or Pain

This one started pretty good, nice buildup, sensible break, moving into some good old-fashion riff, a bit generic verses with some nice guitar fills and then... it all went downhill. Again that stick-poking guitar, singer sounding too pathetic on the bridge and back vocals on chorus sound like a bunch of guys who are doing a favor for a friend. Luckily, synth saves it before the end a bit. It may not be the best move but at least breaks this snooze-fest a bit. Then you endure those couple of chorus repetitions hoping they'll start to fade out (I mean, that's their move right?). IDK, in the end, this looks like everybody in the band tried their best to avoid making filler and it still did it.

Thorns of Sorrow

Now that's a nice start. Instant drama on synth followed by some heavy "power metal-ish" riff. And again, it follows the same path as previous one. That Queen break at 2:20 was a nice welcome. Solo section: when they finally put solo guitar "properly" in the mix, synth ended up in hot-tub. Was their recording software on trial mode so they could record only channel properly? There's aggression in this song and heaviness, you could see they could write a good rhythm, but is seems like hey don't know how to connect to chorus or write a fitting one. I don't know... I've been listening to this album for days and I must admit - I can't wait for us to move to the next one. Youtube kept playing some songs after the album ended and each time, there was a different Symphony X song I would rate higher than anything on this album.

Also, after the final one (A Lesson Before Dying) should we do like a short comment on the album in general or are we just moving to the next one?

 

[Detective Beauregard]

Yeah, I think we should have a chance to comment on the album as a whole after we break down the final track.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

Also, after the final one (A Lesson Before Dying) should we do like a short comment on the album in general or are we just moving to the next one?

Yeah, I think we should have a chance to comment on the album as a whole after we break down the final track.

That's the plan! I'll update tonight with the final track, full album discussion starts tomorrow(ish). I was planning on saving my overall thoughts, song and album rankings until then.

 

[MrKnickerbocker]

A Lesson Before Dying

LYRICS:

Spoiler

A chill grows near you're faced with fear
A darkened day you'll see it clear
Your shadows call while you stand tall
Watch before me while you fall

Times are changing, rearranging
Where's the answer we've all been looking for
Transient dreaming do you believe in
I am the answer to it all

Where are you heading to time will tell
To a destiny that fate knows well
So fly away

Victim of the silence, wipe the cobwebs from your eyes
Beware the season, the lies, the treason, the pain
You're running in reverse now, while struggling to break free
The path you strayed from can only lead to dismay

CHORUS:
Living a timeless tale
Behold the truth unveiled
Passion and fury fills my heart
Knowing my fate
Nightmare of fantasy
Untrue reality
Learning the lesson
As we fight to stay alive

Awakened by the thunder, crashing conscience through your mind
Persistent voices, all evils call out your name
Tears can break the silence, let your doubts
And fears be heard
You're releasing inner peace from your soul

Marching on staff in hand
Falling into darkness
Carry on through the endless nights calling

CHORUS

Crying drowns your doubts and fears
They say that time just might heal the wounds of love
It replaces shattered traces of despair
Looking out through all the years
They say that time just might heal the wounds of love
It replaces

Love will light the darkness there
Bringing some hope into view
It replaces the nameless faces of loneliness that you once knew

[...Solos...]

Marching on staff in hand
Falling into darkness
Carry on through the endless nights calling

CHORUS

• This song starts strong and melodic but meanders quite a bit, in true SX fashion, and I still don't know if I like it or if I'm simply conditioned to think that longer SX songs are better.
• Rod actually sounds pretty good in the first half of this song. I think? I don't know. It might be Stockholm Syndrome at this point.
• The "where are you heading to?" section is quite a nice melody. I like how the heaviness kicks in immediately after, it adds a lot of weight and emotion to the song. The madness guitar/keyboard/double bass section that follows is interesting but also a little insane. I do love the super slinky guitar that starts around 2:40, though.
• The full band transitions throughout this song are truly a sign of things to come.
• As with many SX prog epics, the "chorus" is...serviceable. It's not going to be remembered beyond the life of the song. As much as I love a good 9-13 minute SX song, these tunes tend to have more forgettable choruses (usually in exchange for more memorable instrumentals or vocal bridges).
• I know I've heard the guitar/bass jazzy break at 6:45 before. What song is this used in later?! Anyway, this part absolutely rules. The tonalities are amazing, the playing is great, the vibe is incredible. Everything from 6:45-10:22 is killer and absolutely the best (and proggiest) music on this entire album.
• Also, goddamn, that bass is so poorly recorded and mixed.
• First appearance of the Symphony X "PLONK PLONK PLONK" atonal chord hits over a groove at 8:26. Expect to hear this one at least three more times in the discography (Domination? Gates of Babylon? Something on Iconoclast? Something on Underworld?).
• Pinnella seems to have finally leveled up on this tune. FINALLY.
• The transition back into the pre-chorus/chorus is...forced. I do quite enjoy the instrumental outro, though. It's wonderfully off-kilter and bizarre.
• Definitely makes sense to end the album on this song. It's probably the strongest from a pure prog point of view.